Grom may NOT be the final boss according to new tweet.

[Wildberry]

Garrosh surviving and leading into WoD was an awesome move that connects the expansions

I wouldn't describe being led into Warlords of Draenor as "an awesome move"

[Deleted]

I wouldn't describe being led into Warlords of Draenor as "an awesome move"

What - in your opinion - would be an awesome move?

[Wildberry]

What - in your opinion - would be an awesome move?

I don't know, how about a story that makes sense?

How about a story that's actually relevant and impactful to the story, and not a poor attempt at a side show nostalgia fest?

How about a story that actually focuses on Azeroth's geopolitical intricacies, instead of chalking things up to "us good, them bad."

How about a story that doesn't rest on the cheapest plot device in storytelling?

Really, anything other than Warlords of Draenor could be considered "an awesome move"

[Tyrannica]

And yet Blizzard seems to disagree with you, they didn't bring back these characters to kill them off again, leave Draenor and never speak of it again. What's the point in that? The expansion would feel pointless.

They brought back Gul'dan for a reason, his build up can't be for nothing, and he's a perfect villain so why would they kill him off too soon? Garrosh surviving and leading into WoD was an awesome move that connects the expansions, they should do the same with Gul'dan. He was killed in our timeline, but he won't fall for such a mistake again this time. We're in for an awesome villain both factions hate.

Besides, he died in Warcraft 2 so he never really got a good time to shine. Such a perfect villain died too early. Let him come to our universe and wreck shit.

yeah i agree, this villain is build up very nicely in wod. I am glad, grom is the last boss of this expansion.....(hopefully) need to keep the important villain stuff. Villains with a big plots and persona are rare in wow. Illidan died too early and Arthas should have never died, he was too powerful and too smart(at least in wc3, he lost his brains in wow) and allready dead. Blizz is killing lore villains without replacing them. cata and panda had nothing to go for them in that regard. neither deathwing nor garrosh are true villain material, they wreck havoc, but they have zero personality(DW, considering ingame) or just do not make a lot of sense as main villain(garrosh).

[Florena]

And yet Blizzard seems to disagree with you, they didn't bring back these characters to kill them off again, leave Draenor and never speak of it again. What's the point in that? The expansion would feel pointless.

They brought back Gul'dan for a reason, his build up can't be for nothing, and he's a perfect villain so why would they kill him off too soon? Garrosh surviving and leading into WoD was an awesome move that connects the expansions, they should do the same with Gul'dan. He was killed in our timeline, but he won't fall for such a mistake again this time. We're in for an awesome villain both factions hate.

Besides, he died in Warcraft 2 so he never really got a good time to shine. Such a perfect villain died too early. Let him come to our universe and wreck shit.

What do you base this on? Killing these old characters again seems to be EXACTLY what Blizz had in mind considering that's what's happened to most of them. They're alternate timeline characters, that makes them plenty expendable. Sure, it's possible that some of them may end up surviving and coming with us. But just because a villain is getting some build up doesn't neccisarily mean blizz plans to keep them around past this expansion.

IMO Garrosh surviving was a poorly contrived move to force the expansions together, he only survived SOO because Blizz needed him as a plot device, and he got no character development in WoD. He and Thrall coudl have just as easily had their final conversation at the end of SoO. Gul'dan's a more interesting villain than the other warlords but really only by comparison. Personally I'd rather see him die at the end of the legendary quest chain and then focus on villains like Azshara and Kil'jaedan that are still alive in our timeline. Heck I'd have rather seen Kairoz not killed off right off the bat and gotten more development than focusing on characters who already had their stories told.

As for the 'point' of WoD, it can still matter without bringing doubles into our timeline. The Mogu, Sha and Mantid were all wrapped up pretty well in MoP without crossing into WoD, but I don't feel like MoP was a waste of time. If they do bring anyone over I'd rather it be characters like Yrel who we haven't seen in our timeline.

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yeah i agree, this villain is build up very nicely in wod. I am glad, grom is the last boss of this expansion.....(hopefully) need to keep the important villain stuff. Villains with a big plots and persona are rare in wow. Illidan died too early and Arthas should have never died, he was too powerful and too smart(at least in wc3, he lost his brains in wow) and allready dead. Blizz is killing lore villains without replacing them. cata and panda had nothing to go for them in that regard. neither deathwing nor garrosh are true villain material, they wreck havoc, but they have zero personality(DW, considering ingame) or just do not make a lot of sense as main villain(garrosh).

I agree they should do a better job with their villains. I just don't see digging up dead RTS characters as a good move compared to just giving that attention and screen time to still living villains to flesh them out more.

[Villager720]

I highly doubt Gul'dan goes down in this expansion. The whole premise of the Legendary quest has been to show that he can outsmart us at every turn.

[sam86]

Because they're allowed to change the story which essentially no one knows about? They could've simply decided "the community loves Gul'dan far more than Gron, let's make him the final boss instead".

You do know that they work for us not other way around, because many blizzard blind fans forget that we pay for them, not other way around
Regardless no one pinned them under gun and forced them to confirm - multiple times - that Grom is last boss in WoD, while I do think it is better to not make him a boss, that doesn't change the fact that they will look like idiots when change it

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I'd rather not bring Grom or Gul'dan to our timeline. These characters already had their stories told. WoW needs to develop new characters and stories, not pull time travel bs to bring back copies of old dead characters.

While I agree with you, not sure how many others also share this pov

Really, anything other than Warlords of Draenor could be considered "an awesome move"

Disagree
I had a strong belief after using april joke that anything else will be better, blizzard managed to surprise - me at least - with a far worse idea of AU and Time Travel at same time, if anything, WoD made me worried what they can make worse, not "if" (i don't doubt anymore they can get worse, they managed to make worse lore from pandas)

[Deleted]

I'd like to see Gul'dan as the final boss, having another Hellscream would feel repetitive.

[Florena]

I highly doubt Gul'dan goes down in this expansion. The whole premise of the Legendary quest has been to show that he can outsmart us at every turn.

Possible, but villains tend to get the idiot ball in WoW when it comes times to kill them. And let's not forget that Gul'dan was ultimately duped into killing himself by unleashing demons from sargeras' tomb in our timeline, this was AFTER Kil'jaedan already used and abandoned him when he was of no more use.

[zknm7]

Varimathras, Balnazzar, Detheroc & possibly Malganis in a multi-NPC fight.

I called it here first.

You called it wrong first, ese!

[Deleted]

You called it wrong first, ese!

Holy Pepperoni! you give me hope for the necromancer class

[Khadgar]

Gul'dan should escape. A character both factions hate that much can't be killed at the end of this expansion, the longer he lives the more satisfying it will be to ultimately kill him.

What I'm hoping for is that the ultimate confrontation has us facing both Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde at the same time. Gul'dan uses the opportunity to escape into our time line (setting up the premise for the next expansion, but lurking in the shadows). Heroes of the Horde and the Alliance help us at different moments of the encounter and it ends up feeling a lot like Heroic Ragnaros P4 or Yogg-Saron with the keepers aiding us.

Grom lives, but regardless does something pretty heroic that ultimately subdues or stop the invasion, but it's really too late for Draenor. The remnants of the Iron Horde and Draenei of that top line become integrated into our MU.

We later find out the a lot of this was Wrathion's doing all along. He knew that as the factions stood in our MU that we are still no match for the full force of a legion invasion, and that the only way to stop the legion was to bring heroes that have been long gone into our universe so they can be part of that army of light bullshit.

WHATEVER. I just want Grom to live and/or die a super bad ass death killing Kil'Jaeden or Archimonde with just a fucking axe swing.

whoa you were pretty spot on... Grom living, Gull'dan escaping to our timeline, and Archimonde dying.

[Taeldorian]

I'd rather not bring Grom or Gul'dan to our timeline. These characters already had their stories told. WoW needs to develop new characters and stories, not pull time travel bs to bring back copies of old dead characters.

Just wanna say, rip. How do you feel about Gul'dan being brought back now that you've seen Legion further along in it's cycle?

[Florena]

Holy Pepperoni! you give me hope for the necromancer class

Well I won't say it will 'never' happen because I didn't think we'd get Ilildan style demon hunters ever, but I wouldn't hold your breath for Necromancers. But who knows, if they would add a forth leather class before a third mail class, not to mention ANOTHER AGITY MELEE DPS AND TANK then who knows, maybe they'll eventually make necromancer, though I feel the Unholy spec of DKs was their way of incorporating Necromancer themes since in Wrath they had it narrowed down to Death Knight, Rune master or Necromancer, and settled on DK while working elements of the others into the new DK class. But as I said, I was wrong about demon hunters so I could be wrong about Necromancers, though it would require essentially Wrath 2.0 for it to fit the theme of the expansion.

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Just wanna say, rip. How do you feel about Gul'dan being brought back now that you've seen Legion further along in it's cycle?

Still not a fan of it. It's not enough to not buy Legion over, but I don't feel like he was really necessary when they could have built up a new character to fulfill his role.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not really, Gul'dan was or rather the original was killed off pretty quickly. I'd say using another Gul'dan is nice and makes us the players see him personally do things.

[Khadgar]

Still not a fan of it. It's not enough to not buy Legion over, but I don't feel like he was really necessary when they could have built up a new character to fulfill his role.

Well they said Legion is going to have a high body count, and what we already know from Alpha that is certainly true. They're slowly phasing out most of the old characters.

[Florena]

Not really, Gul'dan was or rather the original was killed off pretty quickly. I'd say using another Gul'dan is nice and makes us the players see him personally do things.

And they could have limited that to WoD like the other WC 2 doppelgangers. It doesn't help in my case I"m still not a fan of the 'one legion' thing or how the time travel was handled in general.

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Well they said Legion is going to have a high body count, and what we already know from Alpha that is certainly true. They're slowly phasing out most of the old characters.

And they could still do the same thing without pulling AU Gul'dan into our world. I don't really feel like Gul'dan's original story was incomplete or that there was any real need to bring another one into the story. I can at least see why they'd want to bring ILlidan back with how bungled BC was lore wise but Gul'dan I felt had a fitting end in the main timeline.


Now I'm not saying the idea is objectively bad, if people enjoy having him around more power to them, I'm not going to tell other people not to enjoy it, I just personally don't like the idea and look forward to killing him so the last of the time travel doubles are out of the way.

[The Penguin]

You called it wrong first, ese!

You sick little necromancer!

/fist shake like Dr. Claw

[JustRob]

And they could have limited that to WoD like the other WC 2 doppelgangers. It doesn't help in my case I"m still not a fan of the 'one legion' thing or how the time travel was handled in general.

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And they could still do the same thing without pulling AU Gul'dan into our world. I don't really feel like Gul'dan's original story was incomplete or that there was any real need to bring another one into the story. I can at least see why they'd want to bring ILlidan back with how bungled BC was lore wise but Gul'dan I felt had a fitting end in the main timeline.


Now I'm not saying the idea is objectively bad, if people enjoy having him around more power to them, I'm not going to tell other people not to enjoy it, I just personally don't like the idea and look forward to killing him so the last of the time travel doubles are out of the way.

How did Gul'dan have a fitting end? He was killed off offscreen by some random ass demons guarding the tomb. The most powerful mortal warlock to have ever existed, killed by some random, no-name demons.

I'm very glad they brought Gul'dan back through WoD. It's one of the few things the expansion did right.

[Imnick]

It was fitting that he died that way because he was destroyed by his own hubris, I am glad that he's been brought back into the plot though.