People shouted ‘jump’ before suicidal man fell to his death

[cyndallis]

Rammstein did a song about this kind of thing once.

Link with English translation.


OT: Behaviour of the people in the crowd was disgusting. While it might not be a crime it's one of those times you wish the media was around to identify them, name them and see how it shames them. Sadly, some people just suck.

[Zangeiti]

In today's day and age no one takes Depression seriously. Because you have people out there who will use it as an Attention point. So because of that this is the outcome.

[Acelius]

Subconsciously hoping someone will stop them.

Sounds like wanting attention to me.

[Terridon]

And do what with them ?

What you find humorous and what others Find humorous are completely subjective. I have a pretty dark and twisted sense of of humour which would would quite easily offend people who do not share the same humour as me, Does that mean I should be "caught" by what I assume you mean is the police ? What would the charge be ? Telling a sick joke ?

Not saying what they done is right or in good taste, I am not saying it was wrong either, It was just stupid.

In DK you're legally bound to help people that is in dire need in accidents and such. So you could be charged for doing the opposite i supose.
Calling it dark and twisted humor is just you being silly. Has nothing to do with "humor" of any kind. Not dark or anything. It's just being an asshole.

Yes those people can find it fun, but also is people that have found it fun to kill others directly. Is that "humor" then?

[cyndallis]

Sounds like wanting attention to me.

As a general rule I'd say that the people who want attention probably don't go through with the act of killing themselves. The people who do kill themselves clearly did need help.

@ Sigma: Regardless of what you find humorous there's a difference between telling a sick joke after the fact and actively encouraging somebody to kill themselves in such a situation. As people have discussed above in the country/state where it occurred it doesn't appear to be a crime so the best we can hope for is public naming / shaming (the same as any troll on twitter). In Australia assisting or encouraging another person to commit suicide is an offence in all states/territories and in some states you are in fact granted the rights to use reasonable force to prevent somebody from doing so.

As to what I believe the punishment should be? How about a public apology to the people the guy left behind and a good term of community service to boot?

@Terridon: Most Australian states don't impose a duty to rescue (there are exceptions: NT, QLD Maritime Law, etc) however most states have now got legislation to legally protect 'good samaritans' so anybody can provide assistance without fear of being sued should something go wrong.

[Fencers]

I do not see what the offense is here. The universe is indifferent to your being, and people have no obligation or duty to be sympathetic your being either.

It is very likely strangers to the "jumper" viewed the individual as annoyingly occupying time &/or space. At best believing the stunt to be overly dramatic and insultingly selfish, or at worst viewing the individual as mentally ill.

In either view there is no object reason a passerby need feel or discourage others from their self harming mania.

Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom.

[Rukh]

I do not see what the offense is here. The universe is indifferent to your being, and people have no obligation or duty to be sympathetic your being either.

It is very likely strangers to the "jumper" viewed the individual as annoyingly occupying time &/or space. At best believing the stunt to be overly dramatic and insultingly selfish, or at worst viewing the individual as mentally ill.

In either view there is no object reason a passerby need feel or discourage others from their self harming mania.

Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom.

When someone is in an unstable state shouting at them, let alone advising them to kill themselves could definitely be considered infringing on their safety. Also it makes you an asshole.

[Deleted]

I do not see what the offense is here. The universe is indifferent to your being, and people have no obligation or duty to be sympathetic your being either.

It is very likely strangers to the "jumper" viewed the individual as annoyingly occupying time &/or space. At best believing the stunt to be overly dramatic and insultingly selfish, or at worst viewing the individual as mentally ill.

In either view there is no object reason a passerby need feel or discourage others from their self harming mania.

Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom.

I wonder if you'd say the same thing if it was one of your loved ones being encouraged by apathetic strangers to kill themselves.

[Fencers]

When someone is in an unstable state shouting at them, let alone advising them to kill themselves could definitely be considered infringing on their safety.

Your safety is what I clearly am talking about above. It is not necessary to be outraged people are jumping off buildings as long as it is not effecting those walking by or the infrastructure one maneuvers within.

Which jumping off buildings does effect, naturally. However it is that which should outrage an individual- that it inconvenience your day and probably cost some money to clean up.

Outrage because one may think some passerby is an "asshole" is foolish. Outrage out of some "moral" stance is unnecessary.

I wonder if you'd say the same thing if it was one of your loved ones being encouraged by apathetic strangers to kill themselves.

I would.

The state of the loved one is important to me, but I do not believe others have a duty or obligation to be sympathetic to my loved ones or my feelings toward a loved one.

[Rukh]

Your safety is what I clearly am talking about above. It is not necessary to be outraged people are jumping off buildings as long as it is not effecting those walking by or the infrastructure one maneuvers within.

Which jumping off buildings does effect, naturally. However it is that which should outrage an individual- that it inconvenience your day and probably cost some money to clean up.

Outrage because one may think some passerby is an "asshole" is foolish. Outrage out of some "moral" stance is unnecessary.

You don't care about other human's safety?

[Fencers]

You don't care about other human's safety?

I feel like you are not reading my posts correctly...

I do care about human safety relatively speaking. That's what I think one should be outraged by- it's less ideal to have bodies falling to the ground all over uptown.

Outrage because one may think Kimmy is a 'jerkface' is not necessary.

[cyndallis]

In either view there is no object reason a passerby need feel or discourage others from their self harming mania.

This isn't really an instance of Duty to Rescue though is it. If they had done nothing there would probably have been no story. In this instance though these people were actively encouraging another person to self-harm.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom.

Would he have jumped if they weren't there to heckle him? Could the police have talked him down? Given the result we'll never know.

Imagine a different scenario:
I come across a child with obviously diminished mental capacity holding a hand gun. I heckle the child telling it that it should put the gun in its mouth and pull the trigger. The child does.

Would you be outraged? Would the situation be so different?

[Fencers]

In this instance though these people were actively encouraging another person to self-harm.

Which is just a "mean" thing to do. Not much more.

Imagine a different scenario:
I come across a child with obviously diminished mental capacity holding a hand gun. I heckle the child telling it that it should put the gun in its mouth and pull the trigger. The child does.

Would you be outraged? Would the situation be so different?

At your heckling? No.

At the circumstances that lead to a person with diminished mental capacity having a firearm, probably so. Because it is not in the best interest of myself, and society in general, to have firearms so accessible.

You would be a jerk, sure. The heckling is not where I would say valid outrage should be directed, however.

[cyndallis]

Perhaps not the best example. I'm not sure what the laws for storage of a fire arm are in the US (Here even basic weapons must be stored unloaded in a locked 150kg container with ammunition in a separate container) but this is going off topic anyway. The point I guess I was trying to make is that I think most people would find behaviour which may effectively coerce somebody of diminished mental capacity into an act of self-harm as outrageous.

[Fencers]

most people would find behaviour which may effectively coerce somebody of diminished mental capacity into an act of self-harm as outrageous.

Correct and accurate to the current state of our culture. This is not a point I am denying.

However, I am saying thus as a point of view: "Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom. "

[Deleted]

Correct and accurate to the current state of our culture. This is not a point I am denying.

However, I am saying thus as a point of view: "Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom. "

Your argument is like saying "the universe exists" or that no one can know what another senses. So, what?

Laws, and the values they built on, are created in order to have a civilization (a progressive society, at its weakest definition), in simplest terms, for the greater good.

In what state do you live in or would want to live in where it would be,

1. optimal to allow citizens to actively encourage the death of random individuals, let alone one of its own
2. optimal to allow citizens to actively interfere with the enforcers of the law and limiters of civil disorder?

Hence, regardless of what motivates you, be it moral outrage, rational or whatever else is ticking away in your mind, if you consider these actions acceptable, you are anything but a civilized person.

[cyndallis]

Correct and accurate to the current state of our culture. This is not a point I am denying.

However, I am saying thus as a point of view: "Morality is made up. It's not a real objective thing in the universe. There is no right or wrong- there are laws and social norms, both of which are transitory and relative.

Outrage is unnecessary save where it infringes on another person's safety or relative freedom. "

Not sure where you're going with that. I accept the statement that morality (and ethics for that matter) are man-made and that social norms and laws will change over a period of time. I'll accept that if there is no right or wrong then the concept of outrage is moot - you wouldn't be angry at or resent an action because it was neither right nor wrong.

But morality, ethics, social norms and laws (even if they're made up) are all parts of the glue that govern successful and beneficial interactions between members of society. Interactions we depend on for our survival, growth and reproduction. People become angry and resent actions that challenge these things because it threatens the success of the social group upon which they depend.