Blast Furnace Heroic please help.

[Saphyron]

We had a few tries on blast furnace Heroic Just to try out the waters and see what was happening on the fight on heroic.

But we seem to get horrible wrecked hard.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...6DbF3M#fight=5

Try 5 was the best try we had but it went really bad like the other 4
What we seem to have problems with is the raid taking massive amount of damages in 1st phase, more so our tanks. our healers including me is basically ooming ourselves to keep them up.

I am the disc priest, I know i'm a bad healer and I should improve, I am trying as well. but why are we having so much trouble?

Next week we are going to progress normal blackhand then get farm bosses down ie 8/10 hc then try progress Blast furnace Heroic again.
Would like to know where we can improve.

Our tactic is the one we are using on normal mode.
Focus bellow operator then engineers, move with bombs to heat regulator as fast possible.
When both is dead stack in middle finish off all adds then starting 2nd phase.

We only managed to kill 1 elementalist and it required 2 slag elementals to do so.

[sephirothmk]

You got 4 people doing suboptimal dps and 1 healer doing suboptimal hps. Thats 5 people who are playing as 3 people. You are missing alot.

[Licarius]

This is your raids damage against the Primal.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ne&target=47.1

3 mages doing sub 20k dps to it, 1 of whom is doing sub 10k. Have your fire mages be less bad padding meters. Rankovich needs work.... badly.

[PBitt]

For starters, this fight is tuned harder the less people you have, we found it much easier with around 20 then with a smaller group of our best players. I'm not sure how many are on your roster but bumping it up should only make it easier if you can do so.

Anyways, p2 is going to go poorly if you start off poorly. I didn't look too closely at the log, but it's quite simple in theory; kill Feldspar and any leftover engineers from p1, then you can kill a slag on top of a primal. Your RL needs to make it clear when he/she wants people to kill the slag so people can focus 100% on the primal, which you need to have happen because you don't want it to get a shield back. Firecallers probably will spawn during the nuke but you really can't pull dps off of them, the tank(s) should be able to keep them from casting a heal. When the first primal is dead, clean up firecallers and make sure there are no more than two security guards alive. When that is done, repeat the process.

From the looks of it, your Primal Elementalist dps is extremely poor. Your hunter did the most with 1.68m and you had a mage that did almost nothing...in fact everyone needs to up their game on the nuke...by a lot. So that seems to be the root of your problem.

[Saphyron]

Our main problem simply seam to keeping the tanks alive. is our tanks doing something wrong or is the damage simply that high in part 1

Also thanks need to step up the damage. can you please point out exactly who is doing what wrong and why. Since I am the raid leader I need to try make them improve somehow and if I have proper info I can help them better.

[Deja Thoris]

A few things:
1) Towards the end of p1 when there can be quite a few adds up the tank damage can be extreme until you get them under control.
2) This is the "spine of deathwing" of the tier. A burn phase on each elementalist. People need to plan procs and CD's and so on. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ne&target=47.1 Each one of those fire mages is just padding or bad.
3) After each elementalist dies, kill firecallers and get guards under control (2 tops)

[ojahunzhe]

I'm not sure how many are on your roster but bumping it up should only make it easier if you can do so.

[Deleted]

Having tanked Heroic Furnace now on 2 chars, i seem to always call for most externals nearing the end of p1, they will be unused throughout p2 and will be up in the scarier parts of p3, unable to check your logs as im currently at work, but if you aren't currently i'd try dumping externals on your tanks.

[Saphyron]

Working on getting more recruits, it hard. so as of now the most we can put together is 10-14 people.

We were rolling externals on the tank, and even with that me and the paladin was almost ooming before part 1 was over.

[Threetrees]

This is more tactics related, but I can walk you through the strat my team uses.

____________________________________________________________________

Phase 1

One tank picks up Feldspar. He/she should be able to interrupt every "Pyroclasm" cast, as they are spaced enough to where 15sec interrupts will be back. Ask the melee to be ready to assist. The tank should use a personal and/or external CD when he/she is tanking Feldspar + a fresh wave of adds.

Make sure people are running "Rupture" over to the wall and dropping it off.

Have your ranged focus on interrupting the Engineer.

If you have an odd number of DPS, put them on Feldspar side.

Encourage everyone to pick up loose bombs and use them on the regulator. If only one person is doing it, then this phase will last way longer than it should. Create a basic route people take in and out so they aren't blowing each other up with the bombs. Rogues are good for this b/c they can sprint over quickly and not lose a ton of DPS. Hunters as well, as they can cast and move better than other ranged.

The big thing here is to get your people to understand that setting bombs off quickly and correctly is the priority, and should take precedence over DPSing adds. The more bombs you "waste," the more Heat you get, and the more raid damage you are going to take.

___________________________________________________________________

Phase 2

Have 2 stack groups on the Primal target. Assign a trustworthy person to mark a Slag as the kill target. The person whom this slag is fixated on should go stand on top of the Primal you want to kill.

Group A) Tank + Melee standing right on top of the Primal (they move out when slags detonate). This tank picks up Firecallers so they can get cleaved down with Kill Slag and Primals, then focused when the Primal is dead.

Group B) Ranged + Healers standing just outside of Slag Bomb range. People who get targeted with Volatile Fire move up against the wall, drop, then come back. Fixate targets move on top of elemental (if your Slag is the kill target).

The other tank stands off to the side with Security Guards. DoT them up, but only focus them when there is no other priority target available.

The basic rhythm is: Kill Slag, Kill Primal, Kill Firecallers, Kill Guards, then move to the next Primal and repeat.

The big thing to get your people to understand is that the temptation to AoE like crazy is exactly that: a temptation that will keep you from killing the boss. I honestly believe Blizzard did this on purpose. The main mechanic of this fight is getting people to put damage where it needs to go when it needs to go there. Padding your meters on non-kill Slags and Guards is useless. If you want to see who is doing the fight properly, look at whose damage is highest on the Primals versus everything else they can hit.

__________________________________________________________

Phase 3

The room is shaped like a horseshoe. Designate a stack person, and have your ranged heals go stack with that person. The stacker should move to the top corner along the outside wall of the room. Drop a Melt, move to the outside edge. Drop another, move. Repeat along the outside edge of the room.

Have your DPS focus down and remaining adds before focusing the boss.

Tanks move the boss along the inner edge of the horseshoe, making sure to keep the trailing melee out of Melt puddles.

Have your tanks taunt at precisely the right time, or the damage will get of out of control (because of Tempered). They should be rolling personal/external CDs on themselves at high stacks of Heat (try to time them to run out right at the same time the other tank taunts).

Roll a Healer CD on Blast casts.

Big thing to get people to understand here is not to take any excess damage. Blast will be bad enough + damage on the tanks, so no puddle standing or anything like that.

_________________________________________________________

I hope at least some of this information helps you get a kill!

[Gonarena]

chaosjones

here are a couple tips and tricks.

depending on your raids ability. start the fight as such ... One tank picks up Fel and adds tank all this on one Operator .. once stacked on the operator only focus down the operator then entire raid focus on the second operator. At this point this is where you split your raid into the 2 groups. if you have a spriest this is where they are most useful.. have the spriest mc the engineer and no one dps it.. they can dump bombs continuously at the door to kill the door * when ever an operator is up they are the dps PRIORITY* do all the hoopla of keeping rupture out to the edges of the room .

at the transition stack all p1 adds up and cleave them down. start p2 fresh from adds. on tank goes to the entrance of the room to pick up the security guards and tank them there. other tank collects fire callers * make sure to interrupt the heal that they cast* make sure to pop out the primal elemental and tunnel hard. inbetween doing the primal cleave down the fire callers. rinse and repeat till p3.

P3 ranged all stack in a back corner .. tank boss 15 yrds in front of them cleave down all adds.. then tunnel boss with lust tanks follow the 3/2/2/2/2/2 rule and walk the boss out and around the arch to give ranged clear area to move. * range must move as one unit to optimize the space in the room *

GL HF

[Gobitron]

Having those uncomfortable conversations with those under performing is apart of raid leading. Start addressing the glaring issues in your logs before you start screwing around with a strategy.

[Saphyron]

Yeah get the general gisp of the tactics since msot of what has been mentioned is what we do.

But basically, increase our dps. Be done quicker with p1, and have people stop whoring dps, when focus targets are up.

Anyone can look at the tanks and see if they are doing something wrong.
Cause of the damage that goes on them, constantly.

[Tennis]

This is your raids damage against the Primal.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ne&target=47.1

3 mages doing sub 20k dps to it, 1 of whom is doing sub 10k. Have your fire mages be less bad padding meters. Rankovich needs work.... badly.

Depending on their gear, it's not that easy to do over 20k on the elementalists as fire. If there were arcane they could easily do it but you lose out on cleave.

[Deleted]

Depending on their gear, it's not that easy to do over 20k on the elementalists as fire. If there were arcane they could easily do it but you lose out on cleave.

Blast Furnace is one of those fights that i single target cunningly disguised as an AoE fight. If there is difficult meeting dps checks on elementalists, it would be better to go arcane. Yes, the adds have to be killed at some point too, but they are not so urgent and there are likely to be people in the raid who can do that without sacrificing single target burst dps.

[Threetrees]

Looking at your tanks now, and since no one else has I will take a stab at helping them.

Based on information from buff uptimes:

The BDK

- Your DK has a lot of downtime on Bloodshield. I am not sure of the exact uptimes you want to aim for, but I know for sure that 22.5% is startlingly low. You can see on the little graph that there are significant gaps inbetween times when his/her BS was up. During those down times, he/she is getting absolutely crushed. The Fix: Spend more runes on Death Strike instead of...wherever they are being spent. DS is well used just prior to taking a lot of physical damage, and just after the damage goes out to heal and shield again.

- Your DK used AMS 1 time on a 7+ min encounter. This ability is on a 45s CD, and absorbs a ton of magic damage. A good time to use it would be for every single Blast prior to Phase 3, and then pop it on high stacks of Heat a little before the Monk would be taunting. In short: Help him/her find times of big magic damage, and use AMS for it.

- Your DK used Rune Tap 6 times on 7+ min encounter. This ability is on a 30s CD, and reduces all damage by 40% for 3 seconds. The 3s duration requires pretty precise timing, but at this point your tank would be better off just using it on CD rather than not at all, ideally during times where he/she is waiting for Frost/Unholy/Death runes to regen in order to get off another DS. In short: use rune tap during times where BS is down, and he/she is taking a good bit of damage.

- Your DK used Dancing Rune Weapon 5 times in a 7+ min encounter. This ability is on a 1.5min CD, and increases Parry chance by 20%. This ability is well used when the DK is taking a long string of melee hits, or when picking up a fresh wave of numerous adds. in short: getting punched a lot? Use DRW.

- Your DK used Vampiric Blood 3 times in a 7+ min encounter. This ability (unglyphed) gives 15% extra max health, increases healing by 15% for 10s, and is on a 1 min CD (which also increases to healing/shielding from BS). This ability can be glyphed to simply provide more healing, and should be most of the time. This is used during times of intense damage, especially melee, as you can put up some big BSs during that time when coupled with Resolve. In short: about to take a lot of damage over a fairly long period of time? Use VB.

As far as the DK goes, I feel like am being redundant, so I'll stop. Essentially, I think you need to sit down with him and help him understand the basic philosophy for tanking: find ways to cut damage. I think he/she needs to do some reading on how to play and perform effectively as a BDK, and http://www.icy-veins.com/wow/blood-d...owns-abilities would be an excellent place to start.

He/she may be better suited to more straightforward tank, as playing a DK properly requires an extensive understanding of how/when to use your vast array of CDs, in addition to proper timing of BS. I would recommend a Guardian Druid or Protection Warrior, as their active mitigation is easier to apply effectively, and they have less CDs to juggle. I'm not saying Guardian/Prot is easy by any means, but I feel it is more accessible to understand how they work.

The BrM

For a comparison, here is the Monk that tanks with me (He is the best that I have ever played with). This is us on our Blast Furnace progression kill:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ras&source=199

- Your BrM's Shuffle uptime is solid at 91%. He/she could get it closer to 100% ideally, but it is up enough as to not be a major hindrance.

- Your BrM's Elusive Brew is pretty good at 35%. This information may be a bit outdated, but I believe a good uptime on EB is roughly equivalent to the Crit Chance % of the monk.

- Your BrM's use of Guard is pretty solid, but a little inconsistent. I would imagine that given the frequency of uptimes at the start, that he was tanking Feldspar. I can understand why he/she might not use it much in P2, but Guard casts should go back up frequently during P3 where tank damage is very high.

- Your BrM took Diffuse Magic, but only used it once. I feel that Dampen Harm is a better choice for this fight, especially during P3 when stacks of Heat get high. He/She should use this in anticipation of long strings of heavy damage, but simply using it on CD would be better than 1 cast in a 7min encounter.

- Your BrM use Fort Brew 1 time in a 7+ min encounter. I could think of at least two good uses of it: Once in P1 when taking Feldspar + fresh adds, and or during the transition into P2 when lots of adds are up and running around (Loader cone AoE hits hard). Another good use during P3 in anticipation of high stacks of Heat, and Dampen is on CD.

Nothing else really sticks out to me. Keg Smash and Expel Harm use seems pretty solid, etc. Right now, the DK is your big project to fix, as I feel the BrM is doing a pretty good job. If the BrM is dying, it is probably because your healers are constantly spamming heals on the BDK.

[Astynax]

Other than DPS and performance issues already said

1. Lack of melee and reliable interrupts
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ype=interrupts

Your group is tanking a metric ton of additional damage from not having high enough damage which prolongs adds who can cast more on you. A LOT of missed pyro interrupts which look like only your tanks are doing once in awhile.

Missed repair and lots of electrocutions getting off. If your DPS are on their targets properly or even set focus targets they can swap to interrupt these. 31k per cast isnt massive but in a prolonged fight with mana issues and other abilities which actually need healing, these adds up

Cauterize wounds x5 got off. Not a huge issue here where they didnt heal a elementalist, but still prolongs the phase. Your rogue literally has next to no interrupts and the ones in there are just 1 per mob type maybe even by fluke. Doesnt seem like he prioritizes interrupts

Bring more Melee DPS in, at least 2 reliable interrupts to stop volatile fires, cauterize, pyroclasm, electricute and stun security when they shield.

2. That warlock... running the wrong talents, using the wrong spells on the wrong things = ultra low DPS. While it is a priority target burn boss fight, damage on adds is still very important. While I can advocate wanting to play your own build for fun as a reason to do it, during progression and raids taking something with big flaws in it isnt productive.

-He's using demonbolt still which got nerfed hard and is for single target burst. He needs sustained damage for 8+ minutes on 4+ targets. Cata/CW or even SoServ/DS is better here, anything but DB
-2 useless major glyph choices. Imps on a sustained fight is a DPS loss. Demon training does nothing in PvE
-Talents: He's burdening his healers by taking Dark Regen when soul leech adds shields the entire fight. Dark Bargain also horrible and makes healers have to focus on him more; DB is ok for huge unavoidable burst damage taken (on 3 min CD), but here you're taking damage more frequently, 10% reduction is way better. Unbound will is useless and hurts the raid if he even uses it by causing massive damage to self for no reason.
-His Demonic Fury management is poor. He's going into Meta without much Fury (debated 2 or 4 DB per rotation) but even if he is going to meta to cast 2 DBs, his DB cast count is low on all encounters in that log. He just seems to go Meta randomly casting 2, 3 or 4 DB without reason, just when he feels like it even on the same bosses.

Even if he is intent on taking those glyphs and talents, his spell rotation and usage is off. With that many targets it should always be Chaos Wave use over Hand of Guldan but he's not. Opener is random, his DoT uptime is 50% when it should be 90%+, and hes spamming Soul Fire all the time even without the MC proc which is 10000000% wrong... he's opting for a 4 second cast ability for 20k damage over a faster casting, less mana intensive shadowbolt filler.

From his logs looks like he mains afflic and just changing to demo, needs to do a lot of homework

3. Personal Play
Consumable use is very low. In the 5 wipes there's people using 0 potions and 0 healing tonics or healthstones. No prepot to stack CD for heavy burst on opener and no self heal abilities or defensive cooldowns used AT ALL by most of the people.

Paladin for example in all attempts, has zero bubbles to save himself as he dies, zero divine protection to mitigate magic/bomb/blast damage, zero potions, zero tonics.

[Deleted]

Right I'll have a look at your blood DK, it's what I play so I know what I'm looking it, I won't insult other people here by commenting on any other bit

a) His runic power usage is terrible, he spends more time capped than not

b) His AMS usage is terrible, theres a nice burst of damage he can soak in the blast explosion thingy, he should be mitigating that

c) His CD's seemed to be all saved for oh shit moments in the fight, regardless of how long the fight, he needs to be more liberal with them, but still have them ready for those bits of the fight he needs em

d) His blood charges are capping too often, like really far too much, get his to spec Runic corruption if he can't manage em.

E) His HPS is low, should be near 30k minimum, some of this will be sorted by the runic power cap, and the blood charges cap, and the CD management

f) He's cast blood boil far too many times, he needs to use it soly on blood runes, never on anything else

g)Towards the end of that try, all hell must of broken loose, so totally forgot to do anything ,there's huge gaps in his CD usage etc at that end bit.

[Saphyron]

Thank you all for the feedback this is really really really helpful.
We have our raid on sunday ill use the time to talk to people about the issues at hand.

Sadly to those suggestions about more people at this point in time, unless we suddenly get more applications out of the blue we can't expand the team.

Though on these tries we had a few people that was not able to be there due to personal stuff.

Our current setup is:

Blood DK (Reliable)
Brewmaster Monk (Reliable)

Discipline Priest (Reliable)
Holy Paladin (Reliable)
Resto Shaman (Reliable)
Resto Druid (50% Reliable)

Retribution Paladin (50% Reliable)
Retribution Paladin (50% Reliable)
Retribution Paladin (Trial)
Balance Druid (Former Raider now social)
Beast Master Hunter (50% Reliable)
Windwalker Monk (Reliable)
Warlock (Social we bring along sometimes)
Mage (Reliable)
Mage (Reliable)
Mage (Reliable)
Mage (rerolling Hunter Reliable)
Rogue (Reliable)
Warrior (Not Reliable I think he has quit the game)

What can we do with what we have?

Also any tips for the healers on how to improve? (the mon healer was our balance druid's alt)
IE how we can make it overall easier, if there is any.

But I can't thank you guys enough for all this feedback. THANK YOU /bow