[6.2.3] Shadow PvE Guide and Discussion

[Djriff]

I would sim it with your gear. I cant remember the dps gains of t17 and t18.

[Yvaelle]

Guys was wondering... do you think it's worth to swap 4p mythic t17 set with 2p hc t18 set? I'm starting to think that maybe it's not worth it until i have 4p t18 set... what do you think?

Simming it like Riff said is best, but consider that they also do different things.

A cooldown reduction on Mindbender/Fiend is only a single target gain - it's going to shine as a bonus on single target fights where you get like, triple the Mindbenders or whatever. T17p4 shines on multi-target fights, where with AS we can maintain it with ToF-like uptimes of ~60-90% depending on fight and skill and luck.

So if you do sim it, it should probably be at the very least on both a patchwerk and a helter skelter - just because T18p2 won't change for fight type, but T17p4 will be much stronger - since it buffs all your damage for much more uptime.

My guess is it will actually be optimal between T17 mythic and T18 heroic - to swap those set bonuses to match the encounter type: no math, just my gut instinct, for the above reason.

[Djriff]

There is a point where the ilvl of the gear will outweigh the set bonus though, never forget int is king. I plan on going 2pc T17 and T18 as long as I can, as the reduced CD on Mind Blast and Sfiend/Mind Bender combined are pretty insane.

[Yvaelle]

There is a point where the ilvl of the gear will outweigh the set bonus though, never forget int is king. I plan on going 2pc T17 and T18 as long as I can, as the reduced CD on Mind Blast and Sfiend/Mind Bender combined are pretty insane.

The item level difference between mythic and heroic isn't huge - plus I was thinking about my items, where I'm replacing a mythic warforged slot: but that might not be the norm. I think it's all about getting to 4p bonuses, the 2p's are flavor, the 4p's are where it's at though.

[soulyouth]

never forget int is king.

To a point, but for most of us crit is worth more than int and sp it's why I'm still using a highmaul WF offhand over a HFC one with no crit.

[Djriff]

To a point, but for most of us crit is worth more than int and sp it's why I'm still using a highmaul WF offhand over a HFC one with no crit.

Well it also depends on the type of fight you are in as well. I was speaking to set bonuses, not crit. AS's actual stat priority in any fight where you can SW:P a second target is Crit > Int > SP > Haste > MS > Mast > Vers

[Deleted]

Anyway, I havent checked other classes tier bonues but... it's like this for everyone? I mean, isn't it kinda lame that I'm forced (since AS is better in all HFC bosses except maybe 4) to use lower itemlevel gear to have that set bonus?
The logic is that I get better gear (and 710hc is better than my 700 mythic), new bonus, I use that one.

Why it's all so crappy for us SP?

[Deleted]

Anyway, I havent checked other classes tier bonues but... it's like this for everyone? I mean, isn't it kinda lame that I'm forced (since AS is better in all HFC bosses except maybe 4) to use lower itemlevel gear to have that set bonus?
The logic is that I get better gear (and 710hc is better than my 700 mythic), new bonus, I use that one.

Why it's all so crappy for us SP?

Set bonuses have been stronger than iLvl (within reason) for pretty much every specc pretty much forever... pretty much.

I don't know why you'd be against that either, set bonuses usually influence some aspect of how we play a lot more than +20 in a couple of stats ever would.

[Deleted]

Set bonuses have been stronger than iLvl (within reason) for pretty much every specc pretty much forever... pretty much.

I don't know why you'd be against that either, set bonuses usually influence some aspect of how we play a lot more than +20 in a couple of stats ever would.

Yea but I'm not saying I rather use 710il gear instead of 700 t17 set. Im saying that for us shadow priests it's better to use 4p t17 700il than 2p t17 700 and 2p t18 710. Thats what I'm complaining about it. With a new raid I expect my tier set to be better than the old one, not that it's better to use old one (with lower IL gear as well) than the new one. Considering there are really few pure single target fights in HFC, I'm not even sure that 4p t18 hc is better than 4p t17 mythic.

Anyone can confirm this?

Blizzard says that the players want at least 15% better stats in gear with a new raid yet they force us shadow priests to use our old gear in most fights... makes sense. Not.

[kaelix1]

Oky im bashing my head right now with CoT, i finally manage to fully understand it, i fell so dumb because it took me 1 day of reading guides like mad man, here is the problem and im hoping you guys can assist me, i have problems when i reach the part where i have to do x2 insanity follow by x4 insanity, the main problem is that after x2 insanity i don't have time to follow with x4 insanity, it is because my gear is pretty much blues/greens and i need x amount of haste?, because im 100% at the moment im doing everything right, and one more question as a fresh 100 Shadow Priest, it is better to go with CoT till i reach 25% crit, thanks

[Djriff]

So what i do is channel insanity and spam insanity until its cast again. Then i spam mind blast or the next thing in the rotation of dot weave. Until you get 20-25% crit or the gsr trinket/sandmans pouch. The only fight in brf you can go as with low crit is beast lord and blast furnace. For hfc hellfire assault, shadow lord iskar, mannoroth, and archimonde. You can run AS on fights where cop isnt viable, check the DPS HFC post, but it will be less dps with less crit.

[kaelix1]

So what i do is channel insanity and spam insanity until its cast again. Then i spam mind blast or the next thing in the rotation of dot weave. Until you get 20-25% crit or the gsr trinket/sandmans pouch. The only fight in brf you can go as with low crit is beast lord and blast furnace. For hfc hellfire assault, shadow lord iskar, mannoroth, and archimonde. You can run AS on fights where cop isnt viable, check the DPS HFC post, but it will be less dps with less crit.

Thank you for your replay

Same, im spamming insanity like crazy but its just impossible, after 2 hours at the training dummy i can't fit the x4 ticks of insanity after DP-MB-x2 ticks, its just impossible no matter how hard and fast im spamming MF button, im assuming here that, 1- is because of my gear or in worst case scenario, is because im lagging (while 60/60 is not good i never had problems), i will continue grinding Tanaan for 695 gear and hope thinks will improve

[Djriff]

Honestly i insanity is justa filler right above mind spike. If you cant get 4 ticks dont sweat it. Cop performs better with low haste anyways. If you check the first post there is a chart you should reference for dot weaving. Use what your haste is at and you'll be fine.

[pkm]

So with AS I'm assuming you swp what ever the hell you can. But is there a target limit to how much you VT?

[Sxq]

So with AS I'm assuming you swp what ever the hell you can. But is there a target limit to how much you VT?

It's lower priority than dp/mb/swp/shadowfiend/cascade. So generally once you hit like (4? depends on stats etc) targets you'll basically use VT as a filler spell only because you'll have so many targets to dot and so many orbs for dp

[Yvaelle]

Starting to think Unblinking Gaze is BiS almost all situations...

Yea, I really thought Piston would take the cake, I don't have an UGS yet, and I'm wicked jealous of those that do!

[Dawnrage]

Starting to think Unblinking Gaze is BiS almost all situations...

What makes you say that?

Also does anyone know how good exactly is the class trinket for shadow? Haven't seen one yet sadly but curious if I should pass to the other classes first. I know the trinket is our best single target trinket but I'm curious if anyone knows if it trumps the other conq users - warlocks/paladin trinkets.

Trinkets are so confusing this tier, and my shadowpriest is just an alt. So if any of the veteran spriest can give some guidance on trinkets to use for single/multi target AS and CoP fights, that would honestly be greatly appreciated.

[Kilee25]

For Cop Single target, you could do Porphecy of Fear and Sethe, or Prophecy of Fear and the class trinket. I'd like to play around with both sets to see how well they do in real fight environments. Blitzo's coment sounds like it might be pretty true - Sethe procs often, and you can attack back targets first...

[Djriff]

Seethe procs an insane amount. I think for a fight like Iskar if you can get the PoF debuff up and just spam SW:P to trigger the AoE you'll do insane amounts of damage with PoF and Seethe. I haven't gotten PoF or RoW yet, I do have the piston and honestly its seems pretty lackluster to me. I may just end up keeping my crit proc trinket as it has more int than even the mythic piston.

[Dawnrage]

Does seethe proc off dot ticks?