Franch, Germany, and South Korea go after Uber.

[Wildtree]

Why? It's all through an app, which means you can easily monitor the transactions and tax them as you like.

The taxi business is highly screened and monitored, and even there you can to some degree beat the system and channel money away from the government.
Simply don't turn on the meter, and work out a flat rate with the passenger.
Plus I think the Uber concept is very crappy. A buddy of mine does it on the side. He told me that his hourly income translates into something of around 10 bucks.
Which isn't horrendously bad, but it wouldn't be anything near enough, given he's in Boston.
I told him to stop fucking doing it, cause his vehicles usage expenses might eat up the few extra bucks he makes.

[Independent voter]

Am not sure how it is like in Germany, but my experience over here is that cab drivers are rude. Drivers not taking the most efficient routes. Very expensive often. Tbh, I wouldve probably prefered having a cab from the app then a real cab driver :')

With Uber, you rate the driver so if he takes the long road, you can give him a bad rating and add that note to his review.

He also gets to rate you. lol. So other drivers can see if you're a jerk.

[Reeve]

...seems to me like that's part of the problem. Are they so expensive and rare to try and force accountability? Or are they that expensive because...they can get away with charging that much?

They're that expensive in New York too. It's partly because the city restricts the supply so that the roads don't get overwhelmed with taxis. Computer models say more taxis on the road doesn't necessarily help reduce taxi wait times once you get past a certain point.

The other reason they're so expensive is pure speculation. You buy one for a million bucks, operate it for 20 years making maybe half a million, but you sell the license (medallion) at the end for $1.6 million.

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The taxi business is highly screened and monitored, and even there you can to some degree beat the system and channel money away from the government.
Simply don't turn on the meter, and work out a flat rate with the passenger.

See, that's possible with taxis. It's not possible with Uber because you can't even call a taxi without getting the transaction in the record. The ride is booked with the transaction before you get in the car, and the payment is transmitted automatically with a transaction register.

Plus I think the Uber concept is very crappy. A buddy of mine does it on the side. He told me that his hourly income translates into something of around 10 bucks.
Which isn't horrendously bad, but it wouldn't be anything near enough, given he's in Boston.
I told him to stop fucking doing it, cause his vehicles usage expenses might eat up the few extra bucks he makes.

Well he doesn't have to be a driver if he doesn't want to. That doesn't mean that the concept of Uber is bad.

[Muis]

With Uber, you rate the driver so if he takes the long road, you can give him a bad rating and add that note to his review.

He also gets to rate you. lol. So other drivers can see if you're a jerk.

I was talking about licensed cab drivers taking unneccassary routes and detours.
I would think that Uber drivers actually wanna be effective and provide good service.

[Reeve]

With Uber, you rate the driver so if he takes the long road, you can give him a bad rating and add that note to his review.

He also gets to rate you. lol. So other drivers can see if you're a jerk.

Yeah, you see the estimated rate before you even get in the car. In my experience, it's always been pretty much exactly what I ended up paying.

[Kalis]

Well if they don't, legally require them to have it, and fine them when they operate without it. Problem solved.

Hire and Reward insurance is expensive and some - perhaps all, but I haven't done motor for years - require proof of your licence to operate before they'll provide cover.

We've been fighting against unlicensed mini-cabs in the UK, I don't think they'll be too keen on another unlicensed mini-cab service just because it's cheap.

[Independent voter]

I was talking about licensed cab drivers taking unneccassary routes and detours.
I would think that Uber drivers actually wanna be effective and provide good service.

I was talking about the same thing. Sorry if I wasn't clear. With Uber, you rate the driver after he delivers you to your destination. If he messes up, you can give him a bad rating which you can't do with cab companies.

[Wildtree]

Well he doesn't have to be a driver if he doesn't want to. That doesn't mean that the concept of Uber is bad.

yeah, he certainly doesn't have to.
Yet I still think the concept is bad. As I've pointed out earlier, at least in Germany a self regulating non profit system is in place since the 70s. And that works like a charm ever since. I've used it myself a few times.
There's no way to get from Nuremberg to Stuttgart (240 km) for 15 bucks otherwise, for example.
You only pay a share on the gas usage.

[Reeve]

yeah, he certainly doesn't have to.
Yet I still think the concept is bad. As I've pointed out earlier, at least in Germany a self regulating non profit system is in place since the 70s. And that works like a charm ever since. I've used it myself a few times.
There's no way to get from Nuremberg to Stuttgart (240 km) for 15 bucks otherwise, for example.
You only pay a share on the gas usage.

And if the system is better, it'll continue to be around.

If they mistreat their drivers, their drivers will do other things and they'll have to improve conditions (though the drivers I've ridden with all said they loved it).

If they lack the insurances, make them get the insurances. If that costs more, they'll raise prices.

But I can tell you from a passenger standpoint, every single thing about the Uber experience is simply superior to any taxi service I've ever used. The cars were cleaner, drivers less obnoxious, payment faster, easier, more secure, no feeling of discomfort while figuring out how much to tip, no wondering whether or not the driver is trying to cheat you by taking a long route, since you saw how much you should pay before you booked, no wondering when the taxi will be there. It was just far and away a superior service.

If you want to get rid of Uber, it should be for a better reason than "but the status quo!!!"

[ringpriest]

Well if they don't, legally require them to have it, and fine them when they operate without it. Problem solved.

They've been getting fined... and at least in some cases, ignoring it - in Europe, they've ignored laws repeatedly. It's basically the Bundy Standoff, only instead of one recalcitrant rancher with odd legal theories, you've got an international company that's decided its right to a business model trumps existing local laws. The proper way to deal with such things is to change the law and then operate your business in areas you formerly couldn't - like SpaceX has been doing in the US, carefully clearing all applicable regulations and laws in cooperation with the government.

Disruptive business models are one thing, but deciding to repeatedly ignore laws (as a corporate entity and in order to make a profit) because you think you're right is something else entirely. Robbery and extortion are against the law, but I really doubt Uber CEO Travis Kalanick is going to approve if armed criminals shove guns in his face and steal from him, yet the only difference between that and what his company is doing is a matter of degree, not kind.

[Wildtree]

Hire and Reward insurance is expensive and some - perhaps all, but I haven't done motor for years - require proof of your licence to operate before they'll provide cover.

We've been fighting against unlicensed mini-cabs in the UK, I don't think they'll be too keen on another unlicensed mini-cab service just because it's cheap.

it needs to be noted that in Europe drivers licenses vary greatly from the US.
For Germany, your drivers license is for life. It never expires.
You have to be 18 to get one.
And you have to rake out the dough big time, to obtain one, due to extensive schooling required by law.
It's a dual educational system, with having to take classes for the theory, and practical driving hours.
The latter have minimum amounts of hours for the various conditions such as:
City traffic, Autobahn (Interstate) traffic, country roads, night time hours.
You've got to have so many hours practice in each of said conditions..
With all the fees and costs for the various hours, you're looking at something in the neighborhood of 1500 - 3000 Euros, depends heavily on the skills of the student.
Further more, if you want to transport other people, you have to obtain another drivers license, which is called a "Taxischein" (taxi registration).
This is not a taxi business license. It's for the driver to be legally allowed to drive passengers commercially.

Here for example (Sorry German, gotta use Google translate or something) for Frankfurt.
http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detai...703665&_ffmpar[_id_inhalt]=58098

Starts with having to be 21 to get such license in the first place.
And again, requires tests...
Not sure now for how much that amounts. But my gut tells me, it's in the neighborhood of some 500 - 1000 Euros

I believe Uber dodges these regulations, hence why it's been banned now.
They can come back maybe with obeying the laws properly.

[procne]

The way I understand it the drivers aren't hired in a normal way, they just get a share from the service. Which means they have no standard employees insurances.
Their cars don't have to meet same criteria taxi cars do and don't go through inspections. Drivers don't have to go through medical tests etc. If there are any problems (accidents, customer damaging the car somehow) then it's the driver who is left with the problem. Basically the whole service seemed to be just a way around the paid transportation law (At least that's what I read in an article about the company in my country. Maybe it operates on different terms in other countries.). So you, as a customer, get cheaper service by skipping QA (quality assurance) and giving the driver worse working conditions.

Which may seem nice and dandy, and you can say cheaper service is all you care about, and then you can go back to complaining about quality of various services declining as well rich-poor gap increasing in the last few decades, wondering why is it so.

[Independent voter]

in Europe, they've ignored laws repeatedly. It's basically the Bundy Standoff, only instead of one recalcitrant rancher with odd legal theories, you've got an international company that's decided its right to a business model trumps existing local laws.

Let me translate: America == bad.

[Wildtree]

Let me translate: America == bad.

Now don't be paranoid lol

[Deleted]

Looks like clever use of game mechanics to me.

[Kalis]

it needs to be noted that in Europe drivers licenses vary greatly from the US.
For Germany, your drivers license is for life. It never expires.
You have to be 18 to get one.
And you have to rake out the dough big time, to obtain one, due to extensive schooling required by law.
It's a dual educational system, with having to take classes for the theory, and practical driving hours.
The latter have minimum amounts of hours for the various conditions such as:
City traffic, Autobahn (Interstate) traffic, country roads, night time hours.
You've got to have so many hours practice in each of said conditions..
With all the fees and costs for the various hours, you're looking at something in the neighborhood of 1500 - 3000 Euros, depends heavily on the skills of the student.

That sounds more expensive and complicated than the British system.

So why are ze Germans such shit drivers compared to us?

[Reeve]

They've been getting fined... and at least in some cases, ignoring it - in Europe, they've ignored laws repeatedly. It's basically the Bundy Standoff, only instead of one recalcitrant rancher with odd legal theories, you've got an international company that's decided its right to a business model trumps existing local laws. The proper way to deal with such things is to change the law and then operate your business in areas you formerly couldn't - like SpaceX has been doing in the US, carefully clearing all applicable regulations and laws in cooperation with the government.

Disruptive business models are one thing, but deciding to repeatedly ignore laws (as a corporate entity and in order to make a profit) because you think you're right is something else entirely. Robbery and extortion are against the law, but I really doubt Uber CEO Travis Kalanick is going to approve if armed criminals shove guns in his face and steal from him, yet the only difference between that and what his company is doing is a matter of degree, not kind.

So raise the fines.

A total ban is silly. I don't like the idea of completely banning superior but disruptive business models like this.

[Wildtree]

That sounds more expensive and complicated than the British system.

So why are ze Germans such shit drivers compared to us?

Are we? You are the ones driving on the right side of the road

Plus we have...............
SCHUMI.. (and Vettel, Rosberg)

[Reeve]

Are we? You are the ones driving on the right side of the road

Plus we have...............
SCHUMI.. (and Vettel, Rosberg)

English and commonwealth nations drive on the wrong side of the road. The rest of the world drives on the right side.

[Kalis]

So raise the fines.

A total ban is silly. I don't like the idea of completely banning superior but disruptive business models like this.

The business model is fine, not complying with licensing and/or insurance requirements isn't.

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Are we? You are the ones driving on the right side of the road

Plus we have...............
SCHUMI.. (and Vettel, Rosberg)

So you have three good drivers...and 80 million shit ones.

England 1-0 Germany (which isn't a scoreline we see very often).