What do i need to look for when recruiting a tank?

[Deleted]

Sadly our bear decided to bail for better guild, and since he was with us since the beggining i never had to recruit a tank. What do i need to look out for in logs/armory etc? I really dont want to trial someone without knowing that theyre decentish atleast

[Deleted]

If you are in a guild that requires logs for applications, you should know better.

If you are not in a guild that requires logs for applications, their previous raid experience and a interview should give you some clue. or ask your other tank, healers, or people with tank alts for advice.

[Deleted]

Whether or not they're a BM Monk.

[kaib]

the problem with tanks are that mostly everyone is interchangable, but doing that with tanks is really annoying. it's very convenient if you just have 2 tanks that actually show up to every raid instead of 3 and you have to swap/relearn stuff all the time. so attendance is huge. for that reason I've always tried to have home grown tanks. if someone quit, there was always someone inside the guild that was interested to take over, either by changing main spec or changing the char. sure, you might have to do some gearing and the guy will certainly have to learn some stuff, but long term it's just a much better solution.
end of the day tanks are just much more annoying to replace then anyone else and giving that job to someone that's been raiding with you for a while and you know has high attendance is just a great solution.

otherwise it depends a bit how progression oriented your guild is. but again, attendance is pretty vital for a tank, don't want to have to replace him every other raid.

[Deleted]

A) Understanding of what specs to play, when and how they are beneficial. Most DPS can get away with playing 1 ST, 1 AoE spec. Most tanks will have 4 or 5 valid variations of their core spec which are each beneficial in a different circumstance.

B) A clear picture that your tank comes to fights prepared and knows it inside out before even pulling. DPS and healers can often get away with "on the fly" learning as such but a Tank who tries that is likely to wipe you

C) An understanding of how each stat benefits them and which to stack for different circumstances. Tied into this understanding how to use their 3/4 different trinkets for different situations.

D) For logs - correct DPS rotations & solid Active Mitigation uptimes - check specifically in each class forum what % these should be. Check they are accurately using further cooldowns in periods where there is increased or spiked damage.

[Rawrzillasor]

Prot pally. Do they have 90% uptime on as? Do they have around 50% uptime on shield.

[Ihsatakar]

Make sure they're not a druid, and then check for their uptimes on mitigation abilities.

It's a bit unreliable looking at logs for tanks as the biggest problems tanks can have are usually ones that aren't reflected in logs such as poor positioning and bad add management along with taking a long time to learn fights.

Ask their old raid leaders about their performance to get a good idea of those things.

[Piwielle]

Considering this tier is world of externals, their ability to actually know when they will get wrecked and ask for an external and/or healer's attention is currently the most important thing. Along with good gameplay obviously.
However, there's pretty much no way of knowing this without going through a trial with the guy.

Good luck !

[Deleted]

Make sure they're not a druid, and then check for their uptimes on mitigation abilities.

It's a bit unreliable looking at logs for tanks as the biggest problems tanks can have are usually ones that aren't reflected in logs such as poor positioning and bad add management along with taking a long time to learn fights.

Ask their old raid leaders about their performance to get a good idea of those things.

Warriors are weaker in BRF than druids due to how many fights require big cooldowns, so not getting a warrior is a better idea than not getting a druid. Druids are perfectly viable in BRF.

Monks are OP at the moment, if you don't wanna go wrong, just go with them, if you want a good player; look at past experience, logs that reflect uptimes of various buffs. DPS can also reflect skill, their DPS relative to other tanks can show how much they are able to work past surviving and into helping with killing the boss; if they are constantly 20% then they are likely bad, but if they are getting 90%+ then they likely have a great grasp of what to do and are getting the most out of the class.

[Rawrzillasor]

Warriors are weaker in BRF than druids due to how many fights require big cooldowns, so not getting a warrior is a better idea than not getting a druid. Druids are perfectly viable in BRF.

Monks are OP at the moment, if you don't wanna go wrong, just go with them, if you want a good player; look at past experience, logs that reflect uptimes of various buffs. DPS can also reflect skill, their DPS relative to other tanks can show how much they are able to work past surviving and into helping with killing the boss; if they are constantly 20% then they are likely bad, but if they are getting 90%+ then they likely have a great grasp of what to do and are getting the most out of the class.

I wouldn't say that. There is a difference in progression where staying alive is king vs farm where everyone just pads.

[Groen28]

We recruited a tank that did not have a decent log but he's actually pretty good and helped us progress into mythic. You won't know if the tank is good or bad until you try him out, logs could filter out some bad tanks but you might also miss out on some good ones. Best thing to do is give him a trial, if it doesn't work out, that's what trial is for.

[ThePants999]

logs could filter out some bad tanks but you might also miss out on some good ones.

You're never going to skip over good tanks by looking at logs unless you don't know how to look at logs.

[Deleted]

We recruited a tank that did not have a decent log but he's actually pretty good and helped us progress into mythic. You won't know if the tank is good or bad until you try him out, logs could filter out some bad tanks but you might also miss out on some good ones. Best thing to do is give him a trial, if it doesn't work out, that's what trial is for.

I'm confused, was this tank's logs "bad" or did he just not have any?

If he has none of course give him a shot. If he's fucking everything up on logs then he's not likely about to miraculously change when you invite him.

[thunderdragon2]

this is why there arent that meny tanks raiding past lfr for guilds to recruit, ppl are too picky, they only want a pala or dk so they are just crippling themselves because they beleive that theres only 2-3 viable tanking classes

[Deleted]

this is why there arent that meny tanks raiding past lfr for guilds to recruit, ppl are too picky, they only want a pala or dk so they are just crippling themselves because they beleive that theres only 2-3 viable tanking classes

Eh? Pallies and DKs are middle of the pack currently. Monks and Warriors are the two most effective in BRF but all 5 are perfectly valid.

I think the issue is more the case that tanks are really low in demand from guilds but losing one really damages you. Because of this there are both very few tanks playing beyond LFR and very few tanks needed beyond LFR.

[Deleted]

Eh? Pallies and DKs are middle of the pack currently. Monks and Warriors are the two most effective in BRF but all 5 are perfectly valid.

I think the issue is more the case that tanks are really low in demand from guilds but losing one really damages you. Because of this there are both very few tanks playing beyond LFR and very few tanks needed beyond LFR.

Warriors are the WORST in BRF, most damage taken and have the worst capability to handle big dick damage from bosses early on in heroic and mythic progression.

If you have a warrior in your guild, and they are in your Gruul, Hans and Frans, Oregorger or Flamebender (if tanking doges) you will likely see them begging for externals every 20 seconds. While other tanks have ways and methods of not doing that. Anyway here is tank surivivability metrics from warcraft logs, a metric which I often find meaningless, but when taken from literally thousands and thousands of logs, it shows a very clear pattern and log.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...s&difficulty=4

[Deleted]

So what if Warrior is bad now? Was good in SoO (world first had warrior tank), good in Highmaul (world First had warrior tank as well) and may become good again in the future. Teh class does not matter much unless you still do not use personal loot, then pick the one of which you have better gear to spare (like Monk if you have lots Protector tokens/Agi 1h)

DPS and HEaling is a different matter but for Tanks I would say pick player not Class.

I'd refrain from tank comparisons in SoO due to how cheesing with vengeance worked back then.

But yah, warriors suck in BRF. And its not about the player, its really about the class, for fights like gruul and oregorger specifically, they simply do not have the cooldowns to survive them. I, as a bear survive them just fine without begging for externals. Same is somewhat true on fights like Hans and Frans and Flamebender (Again if you tank dogs, which is why our guild had me tank the dogs, not our warrior).

Warriors have the weakness at the moment of having a 3m cd on a 40% reduction while other classes have cooldowns on much shorter cooldowns to soak big dick damage. Other issues are that they have poor self healing, well its pretty much non existent while all other tanks have some ways of self healing with their active mitigation, which puts a lot more stress on healers.

[Threetrees]

Warriors are the WORST in BRF, most damage taken and have the worst capability to handle big dick damage from bosses early on in heroic and mythic progression. If you have a warrior in your guild, and they are in your Gruul, Hans and Frans, Oregorger or Flamebender (if tanking doges) you will likely see them begging for externals every 20 seconds.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...s&difficulty=4

I don't understand the mentality of it being a bad thing to need/use externals. Blizzard stated loudly, proudly, and with great enthusiasm that part of their planning for WoD raids that they want to make use of the various classes' toolkits, and that certainly includes external DR CDs on the tanks. I use them extensively (more b/c of my more liberal outlook on the use of spells than actual need), while my Monk co-tank doesn't utilize them as often. Neither of us die, and neither of us are a liability to our raid, so I don't see the problem with warriors.

Here is the thing about not using externals: any damage you didn't have damage reduction for is damage you didn't have to take, which is in turn damage that had to be healed, which is a drain on healer resources and/or attention. Leaving any tool with an obvious application on the table is a tool you didn't use, and there are consequences for it.

I imagine someone will bring up the Sco interview where he said that he was surprised that Method didn't require him to swap tanks, and that sometimes he second guessed his choice for sticking with it. But here's the rub: He found a way. He made it happen. That's what good players (and players with good attitudes about progression, regardless of level) do.

Every tank is perfectly viable in every single fight in BRF if you figure out a way to use the tools you have at your disposal (external and otherwise) to work to your advantage.

Warriors have the weakness at the moment of having a 3m cd on a 40% reduction while other classes have cooldowns on much shorter cooldowns to soak big dick damage. Other issues are that they have poor self healing, well its pretty much non existent while all other tanks have some ways of self healing with their active mitigation, which puts a lot more stress on healers.

That statement about 3 min CDs is objectively wrong.

Shield Wall - 40% DR, 2 min CD (Prot Warr)

Guardian of Ancient Kings - 50% DR, 3 min CD (Prot Pal)

Survival Instincts - 50% DR, 3 min CD on 2 Charges (Bear Druid)

Icebound Fortitude - 20% DR, 3 min CD

Fortifying Brew - 20% DR, 20% Health Increase, 20% Stagger Increase, 3 min CD

Also, the only tank that heals through active mitigation are Blood DKs using Death Strike. All other tank heals are separate spells that operate independently of active mitigation. Here's the list of what is considered active mitigation according to what could "block" Rik'kal's Injection on the Paragons fight, or Pierce Armor from the Rukhran in the Skyreach dungeon (currently the only two mechanics that I can remember off hand that use active mitigation to diminish or avoid the effect).

Warrior: Shield Block or Shield Barrier

Paladin: Shield of the Righteous

Druid: Savage Defense

Death Knight: Blood Shield

Monk: Elusive Brew

Now, I'm not saying that warriors are in a great place right now, because they aren't. Shield Barrier has been rendered largely ineffective (around 150k roughly max at 200-250% Resolve), and I feel needs some re-working. In addition, and large amount of the boss "special moves" can't be blocked, and that is the warrior's bread and butter mitigation. Warriors do well on Gruul simply because Inferno Slice CAN be blocked, whereas most others (like Acid Torrent), cannot.

[Deleted]

Ah I always get confused when sites don't factor in passives like Bastion of Defense into spells. Yeah it is 2 minutes.

But yeah; my point about externals is that other tanks do not rely on externals as much as the warrior, and this is not an advantage the warrior has. Needing externals is not 'healing saved' its simply externals lost and mitigation lost potentially from other situations.

And obviously if the world first mythic blackhand was with a warrior, they are viable, but there is also a question that has to be raised, the top 20 guilds a while ago, I'm not sure what the composition is now, but I remember checking the tank composition and it was 12 monks and the rest spread among a few DKs a few warriors one bear and a few paladins. Literally no guild didn't run a monk in their line up and a few, such as paragon ran two monks.

One has to ask; why are monks so good that so many high end guilds are stacking them as tanks? And will this be addressed in the future? I sure hope so.

MERF NONKS

[Shamburger]

One has to ask; why are monks so good that so many high end guilds are stacking them as tanks? And will this be addressed in the future? I sure hope so.

MERF NONKS

Well the fact that they have 1/2 the DTPS of any other tank with proper stagger and elusive brew managment couldnt really hurt... That plus a half decent defensive toolkit (with talents that actually DO something).