we need a Reset

[Irian]

No, absolutely not. That's a horrible idea created by blind nostalgia. The thing about druids in tree form is proof of it.

You know what I remember hearing a lot from resto druids in tree form? "sorry guys couldn't move fast enough because movespeed reduction" "ffs i never get to look at my character or any of my armor anymore since tree form" "i'm resto i can't solo anything that i can't punch to death" etc.

A pulling back of some mechanics and homogenization, definitely, but nothing more than that and...well, an expansion with a little more substance than WoD.
Raid buffs being unique to classes should come back. The current buff system is so worthless it may as well not even exist; 5% of every stat is bland and uninteresting. What happened to stuff like Windfury and Stormlash? What happened to Paladin blessings, shadow priest mana batteries, things that made you want to be in a group with some classes? Why did this have to go? It made it way more fun to do group content when every class brought something to the table and it also gave reasons to use specs that were otherwise "lesser" dps, ex. I remember going Destruction many times when a group didn't have Replenishment, or the ever-loved Demonic Pact SP buff.
Stuff like that made groups fun and interesting. It gave a means to contribute just by your presence and almost every class had something either unique or rare.

Another thing: not every melee needs to have a 15 second cooldown interrupt. Not every class needs two or three defensive cooldowns. Like how I mentioned with adding old stuff to classes again to make it more fun to be in a group, there also needs to be some removal of crutches that people have just come to expect on every class. The game won't suddenly explode if every tank class doesn't play the same, every melee doesn't have an interrupt, every healer can't top someone off in 2 seconds.
They're being lazy with their design by the very definition of the word, by just fitting everyone into one of four "classes" with a few different tweaks and polish: Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Healer, Tank. No in-betweens. No druids that can switch between tank and DPS, no warlocks using Dark Apotheosis to be offtanks, no hybrid resto-moonkin builds for aggressive damage while still keeping the ability to heal, no ret paladins who sacrifice things like interrupts and mobility for the ability to heal, no prot paladins in PvP. It's just bland, controlled and boring.

Those are the things they should work on, IMO, but that's looking into the future. They wouldn't go back, and for good reason; in today's age, people would look at Burning Crusade and think "wtf is this shit?"

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Jeez I don't know how this is such a hard concept to grasp; if you don't like the game. DON'T PLAY IT. If you don't play the game because you don't like it, STOP GOING ON FANSITES AND WHINGING ABOUT THE GAME YOU NO LONGER PLAY. No one fucking cares how much you loved BC, if you went back to it now you'd say "There's fuck all to do, too many dailies, dungeons are too hard and irrelevant once you've done Kara once, there's no character progression outside raids etc etc" BC was great at the time sure, but in comparison to what's around now? It was lackluster at best.

I think a lot of people here would happily disagree with you.

That said, I actually think I might've liked WotLK better when all is said and done. BC had more intrigue but WotLK technically had more bang for your buck and the content was just solid all around.

[Novx]

and in the real world we do have resets in business all the time

Yes, all of those business resets. I for one love that my local auto repair shop decided that rather than fixing vehicles they will just let you trade it in for a horse and buggy. Now I don't need to worry about getting an oil change and all these other things that I dislike doing and can instead just use that.

I love when people say "Vanilla was great!" because I played Vanilla and trust me there are many things that were just atrocious compared to basically any other version of the game. Plate with spirit, hybrids being forced into a single spec, 3-4 items dropping for 40 people, 5 minute buffs, etc.

[Splenda]

I think what needs to be reset is my mindset.

I wish i could wipe my memory that involves wow and just simply start all over until i hit "noob" status, i really missed the times when i felt satisfied for killing a player or a getting an epic piece of loot from a raid.

Playing for 9-10 years, i think i am getting pretty tired of wow, it sucks...

I really agree with you. I never had more fun than when everything was new and shiny and there was endless corners to explore. I still enjoy playing, but I do miss that sense of newness and wonder.

[Kanadei]

The game that was released was hyped up to be something it didn't turn out to be at all. No Farahlon, no Tanaan Jungle until 6.2, no major cities, heirloom tab not released til 6.1

Yeah once I found out a quest zone was missing and I had to wait for my heirloom tab to come out I basically quit right there on the spot.

Everyone knows thats the content people were excited about

[Sierra85]

i like the idea of everyone starting fresh back at level 1, but too many people would freak out.

[Kanadei]

I love when people say "Vanilla was great!" because I played Vanilla and trust me there are many things that were just atrocious compared to basically any other version of the game. Plate with spirit, hybrids being forced into a single spec, 3-4 items dropping for 40 people, 5 minute buffs, etc.

I used to log on an hour before raid to summon water 2 at a time for 30 other people, then spend 20 minutes at the start of raid trading it to them by hand...

God those were the days.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I used to log on an hour before raid to summon water 2 at a time for 30 other people, then spend 20 minutes at the start of raid trading it to them by hand...

God those were the days.

Quiet down peasant and make us some more water. This is a thirsty crowd. That's the only reason we brought you along!

[imabanana]

we had 10 man only and 25 man only raids, we didn't have LFD or LFR or LFG we had guilds, we had friends, people had a better sense of how they acted because they knew it would get around and they wouldn't get invited to groups or guilds.
(...)
Customer service is worse then Dells, put a ticket in wait 3 days for computer response, ticket reply wait 2 more days til no help maybe on 3rd try you may get help or not. Phone support gone as well for billing issues, I remember putting a ticket in during BC and a few hours later a GM would Pm me and the issue would have been fixed right then and there, I guess days long gone

That's fun, I still have a guild, friends and people I know I will (or will not again) raid with. That's the only reason I'm still playing in EU.

I reactivated few weeks ago, had lots of issues since I moved from one side of the planet to the opposite (literally) but still wanted to play in my home region, my account was blocked twice (once from NZ, then once from NZ with a proxy), registered phone number wasn't active anymore, didn't know my secret question answer, etc...

First time I contacted them through the live chat, had someone help me in a few minutes, fixing the first login issue only took a few more minutes since I has gave them enough info and proof of ID. Second and third time were both by ticket through website since chat was unavailable atm, had an answer to both of these within an hour, and both issues were fixed when I got their answer.

Was quite surprised by how good it was compared to when I had to contact them last time (end of BC I think, or maybe beginning of LK ?), took days at that time for just one ticket.

So what does this game need, I believe it needs a reset, not a complete one just reset back to Burning crusades maybe when Black temple released or ZA, and start over from there. let them spend time fixing the few issues in wrath maybe add a few new things make it a polished game, the sky would be the limit since they would have the frame work. that way they could leave the old talent trees, undo all the band aids from past mistakes..like druids did like healing in tree form, just using that as a example.

No way this would work. Only some old hardcore players will stay if this happens. The MMO genre evolved (with WoW quite often defining where it was going), people aren't used anymore to spending hours for something pointless or that can be automated. And the place for elitists jerks has narrowed a lot, they're far from being the major customer base and I'm glad Blizzard finally understood this.

First thing they'd do after "going back to BC" would be to re-do most of the changes they did since then. Like removing most of the old pointless and uninteresting talents (click here for +1% crit, woohoo, what an interesting talent), changing attunement system, changing raid system, adding ways for people to find other people to play with easily, adding content for non hardcore players, etc.

Lots of easier content is much better seen by most customers than little and almost only hardcore content, as BC was. And that's definitely what WoW is now, lots, and lots and lots of easy content. Try farming all treasures, all rares, all pets, all mounts, all toys, all quests, all past achievements, etc... almost nothing in there is hard, but you can spend months trying to do so. I love being able to spend lots of time doing small but varied things, and then when I have more time (and more stable connection, and free time that matches EU active time... which means not quite often), move to harder stuff that needs a little more dedication.

- - - Updated - - -

Another thing: not every melee needs to have a 15 second cooldown interrupt. Not every class needs two or three defensive cooldowns. Like how I mentioned with adding old stuff to classes again to make it more fun to be in a group, there also needs to be some removal of crutches that people have just come to expect on every class. The game won't suddenly explode if every tank class doesn't play the same, every melee doesn't have an interrupt, every healer can't top someone off in 2 seconds.
They're being lazy with their design by the very definition of the word, by just fitting everyone into one of four "classes" with a few different tweaks and polish: Ranged DPS, Melee DPS, Healer, Tank. No in-betweens. No druids that can switch between tank and DPS, no warlocks using Dark Apotheosis to be offtanks, no hybrid resto-moonkin builds for aggressive damage while still keeping the ability to heal, no ret paladins who sacrifice things like interrupts and mobility for the ability to heal, no prot paladins in PvP. It's just bland, controlled and boring.

*cough* pvpwhine *cough* *cough*

[Deleted]

A reset. *sigh*

They did MC and Southshore just for giggles and it all sucked and no one wanted to do it.
What on earth makes you think a reset back to vanilla would be any different?

And that CS bit.. it sure would be nice in a world of infinite resources. I guess it would be nice if gas was under .50$ a gallon as well. Yeah. That's it, we need to reset America.

And why did we need another nostalgia thread again?

[nightfalls]

I feel that this expansion should have been more of a "reset" - as in a level and content squish. It already half is one, except Blizzard took the greedy path and is charging $60 per boost now.

Cut the initial leveling down substantially. Trim/remove a lot of irrelevant content (including bag clutter!) - cut professions from 700 points down to like 500 points, and remove a ton of the old recipes/etc. Level squish 1-80 down to 1-60 again. Hey, this might even help with preventing item squishes!

Turn legacy raids into 2 modes, Timewalker + "easy-mode" (i.e., current "buff" against old content type thing). That might even help keep Legacy raiding alive, especially the Timewalker mode, make it a distilled version (to prevent overcomplication/hard tuning) for max level characters, which is gently tuned (and changed where needed) to account for changing class toolkits.

Even as someone that didn't raid "back then" (I started in Cata), I see that the "spirit" of some fights can never truly be recovered with today's class toolkits whether with Timewalker or with "twink-style" raids (for instance, threat-based mechanics!!!, ranged tanks, different types of CC, etc.). Maybe those can be recovered as much as possible, or just left out.

Basically trim a lot of fat from the game. One of the BEST parts of WoD was how Draenor did partly that, and felt like a new beginning. Old professions are skipped (with catchup leveling), and leveling is skipped with the paid boost and free massive drop in XP needed + heirlooms. Even stuff like achievement changes (i.e., Warlords Season 1), and of course the item squish.

Now just make it official.

[Amerissis]

No, WE don't. First off, I didn't like TBC, so no thanks on repeating that. Second, I like WoW as it is now and removing all that would make me leave for sure. Third, we have +/- 10 million people who like WoW. Who are you to take their game away from them, just because you don't like it anymore? Just leave.

[Cannibalus]

I actually unsubbed just over a month ago and can't post on the wow forums so I thought I would join this site and post. First off I do miss the game but everyone I know has unsubbed as well in the past month or so.

I have been thinking what does this game really need? what has happened since the beginning that put everyone on edge the most.. and I can not pinpoint any one thing its a mass of things that has caused a lot of the issues and caused people to leave.

I played during vanilla ya big deal, I hated running til level 40 the same as everyone else, I did enjoy PVP a lot better then compared to now. But vanilla was not the great grand game that everyone fell in love with, I think that truly happened at BC, when we had real talent trees, we had 10 man only and 25 man only raids, we didn't have LFD or LFR or LFG we had guilds, we had friends, people had a better sense of how they acted because they knew it would get around and they wouldn't get invited to groups or guilds.

then we get Wrath it was pretty good, I was resistant at first but it did grow on me, I was in a pug group on the first night ICC opened and we cleared the first wing before anyone else on the server that was fun times. PVP got a little boost during wrath from wintergrasp.

Then thing went downhill from here Cata I don't think I need to go into that one MOP started to bring things back with a few good new ideas like the farm and the return of world bosses and all those wonderful rares we could farm every hour, now we have WOD which I think is nothing but a unfinished beta. I have no clue what happened there maybe too much of a focus put on overwatch, heathstone, and heros. but they dropped the ball and continue dropping the ball.

Customer service is worse then Dells, put a ticket in wait 3 days for computer response, ticket reply wait 2 more days til no help maybe on 3rd try you may get help or not. Phone support gone as well for billing issues, I remember putting a ticket in during BC and a few hours later a GM would Pm me and the issue would have been fixed right then and there, I guess days long gone

So what does this game need, I believe it needs a reset, not a complete one just reset back to Burning crusades maybe when Black temple released or ZA, and start over from there. let them spend time fixing the few issues in wrath maybe add a few new things make it a polished game, the sky would be the limit since they would have the frame work. that way they could leave the old talent trees, undo all the band aids from past mistakes..like druids did like healing in tree form, just using that as a example.

its not like blizzard will every read this, just wishful thinking but I truly hope they fix it soon.

love to hear others ideas

You surely do have selective memory, pal. Back in the "day" the game was shit, in vanilla you would never see hard raiding content (like naxx) and everything else was a stupid grind, in BC ppl have become professional ass-lickers and new ppl had no chance that running Kara even in the BT patch, and they were ridiculized at by "real raiders" and things started to change a bit in WOTLK. And not to mention PvP, as you obviously never played at high rating. The game can't be good for everyone, it never was and it never will, but right now, everyone has a fighting chance, as you go through some steps with pugs, after LFR, normal, heroic and even Kargath Mythic, log some fights and apply for guilds with a real "CV".

And talk about content, i can barely do what i want to do everyday, and you say there is too little content... ok lel.

- - - Updated - - -

A reset. *sigh*

They did MC and Southshore just for giggles and it all sucked and no one wanted to do it.
What on earth makes you think a reset back to vanilla would be any different?

And that CS bit.. it sure would be nice in a world of infinite resources. I guess it would be nice if gas was under .50$ a gallon as well. Yeah. That's it, we need to reset America.

And why did we need another nostalgia thread again?

SO MUCH THIS! I remember when people so eagerly queued for MC the night it appeared only to see what a shit design it was compared to how it is now.

[nightfalls]

SO MUCH THIS! I remember when people so eagerly queued for MC the night it appeared only to see what a shit design it was compared to how it is now.

Something tells me that's partly (or mostly) why Blizzard even released that content to begin with

Just to shut up all the "OMG VANILLA RAIDING" people. Sadly, even after that, people forget 2 months let alone 8 years.

[Irian]

*cough* pvpwhine *cough* *cough*

It's definitely not aimed at PvP solely, but it's not ignoring PvP either. There's a big difference between including PvP - what was once a large part of the game - in a discussion and "pvp whining". I'd like to hear why you'd think any of what I said would be a bad idea for the game.

[Arcangnom]

A pulling back of some mechanics and homogenization, definitely, but nothing more than that and...well, an expansion with a little more substance than WoD.
Raid buffs being unique to classes should come back. The current buff system is so worthless it may as well not even exist; 5% of every stat is bland and uninteresting. What happened to stuff like Windfury and Stormlash? What happened to Paladin blessings, shadow priest mana batteries, things that made you want to be in a group with some classes? Why did this have to go? It made it way more fun to do group content when every class brought something to the table and it also gave reasons to use specs that were otherwise "lesser" dps, ex. I remember going Destruction many times when a group didn't have Replenishment, or the ever-loved Demonic Pact SP buff.
Stuff like that made groups fun and interesting. It gave a means to contribute just by your presence and almost every class had something either unique or rare.

It may have been more interesting to some. However, it laid waaay too much restrictions on raid compositions. Thinking back to Sunwell, our raid composition had to be: Group 1: 2 tanks, 1 holy paladin, 1 unlucky melee, hunter. Group 2: 2-3 rogues, 1 enhancement shaman, 1-2 dps warrior. Group 3: 2 mages, 1 shadowpriest, 1 demo warlock, 1 elemental shaman. Group 4: 1 Shadowpriest, 4 healers (NO Shaman). Group 5: 1 shadowpriest (if you had the luxury), resto shaman, 3 more casters.
There was barely any room for changing the setup if you didn't want to take a huge hit in performance. I can't remember the list of debuffs off the top of my head, but they were easier to get, as they were essentially raidwide. Also, every raider had to have leatherworking as a profession (well, 4 out of 5 per group if I recall correctly). The other profession should be either enchanting or jewelcrafting.

Now you can get every raid buff with just 5 people (or less? I didn't look too much into this), so you can, in fact, bring the player, not the class.

[Zantos]

I thought you meant a gold reset. But resetting the entire game to bc? Yeah no. And before you think about it, No, they will not do a classic server.

[nightfalls]

It's definitely not aimed at PvP solely, but it's not ignoring PvP either. There's a big difference between including PvP - what was once a large part of the game - in a discussion and "pvp whining". I'd like to hear why you'd think any of what I said would be a bad idea for the game.

The reason it is labeled as "pvpwhine" is because you're completely ignoring the reasons those changes were made - PvE. Hence you're being mocked for your supposed total lack of perspective there while trying to pass it off as "good for everyone"

Take a look around, even WITH this homogenization the game has evolved into a "bring the class, not the player" metagame. And it sure wasn't any better before, in fact, most likely far worse when classes were brought solely for unique abilities and no other reason (such as ability at actually playing a role). When making raid team comps, there needs to be a balance between making it a chance to get diverse compositions while still keeping players that you want. Part of the homogenization is toward doing the latter, making raid comps less strict.

Not every melee having a 15 second interrupt would mean either greatly excluding interrupts as a possible raid mechanic or meaning that the player without the interrupt is either never brought in, or solely brought in for some other dumb unique reason. In a raid with generally a handful of melee spots, that's pretty terrible. Not having healers that can top someone off means the healer is either inferior or brought for some other gimmicky reason. In a raid with only 4 healers, that's pretty terrible.

Bearcat while fun made it less fun for legitimate tank-only tanks. Dark Apotheosis had it not been nerfed into oblivion-uselessness would have done the same for other ranged, more so than what happened in MOP.

And no, it was neither interesting nor fun to play a spec so you could be a buff bot. It meant that you either were playing a shitty spec for a fight, or not your favorite spec, only for a passive pixel that would appear. Blizzard's philosophy that you should play a spec because you enjoy the spec, not because it's required for a buff, seems to be a good one.

- - - Updated - - -

It may have been more interesting to some. However, it laid waaay too much restrictions on raid compositions.

Basically this, you typed it faster than me.

But yeah, regardless of whether it was intentional or not, that's why such comments get brushed as "pvpwhine" - hope it helps explain it anyway, not trying to outright call you out for it.

[Defect]

Only a total noob would ever want a reset to be on the same level as other players. I can see those kind of people wishing for this, only they would win because they would finally equal for a about a week.

This is the most retarded idea ever.

[imabanana]

It's definitely not aimed at PvP solely, but it's not ignoring PvP either. There's a big difference between including PvP - what was once a large part of the game - in a discussion and "pvp whining". I'd like to hear why you'd think any of what I said would be a bad idea for the game.

Oh, I think that would be a good idea to have real differences between classes. That's really one of the things I miss most in game. should have added "incoming" after pvpwhine maybe .

Pvp people (mostly, along with hardcore raiders I guess now) would instantly whine about changes like that, as it has always been. (well, both whine *and* abuse it)