Anyone else worried about the skillcap for Overwatch?

[Deleted]

I wouldn't worry at all about the skill ceiling being too low in a game like Overwatch. Purely based on the fact that it's an asymmetric FPS game, it's going to have an enormous skillcap by default compared to most other titles, one which 99.9% of players will never come close to reaching. Given Blizzard's tendency to strip out niche and/or gimmicky elements of their games, it's entirely possible that the overall skill ceiling may be lower than in similar titles, but certainly not to the extent that it causes any kind of tangible issues with the gameplay.

When you're dealing with mechanics like precise three-dimensional movement, aiming, and asymmetrically balanced tactics (and assuming the game is well designed, of course), there should be more than enough depth for even the most skilled of players to sink their teeth into for years to come, especially with ongoing additions to the roster and balance tweaks over time.

Disagree. Sorry but in watered down games there is only so much you can actualy affect. More complex games and more difficult games have higher skillcap becouse there is much more things to learn and to care about during match. TF 2 isnt really popular FPS game in these days. So i rally wonder if this game will not become another boring dumbed down game as Blizzard used to make in past several years. Blizzard have this nature ,,overcasual,, their games to the point when game stop being fun in long period of time.

[Tidezen]

Go is one of the simplest games on the entire planet, and yet one of the hardest to master. A low skill floor /= a low skill ceiling. Low complexity of game mechanics /= a low skill ceiling either.

Overwatch's skillcap, like most FPSes, will be infinite. Period. Even if there were no classes, even if there was only one map, even if everyone only had the one same gun. Boring, yeah, maybe, but skillcap is inconsequential to that.

[Deleted]

Go is one of the simplest games on the entire planet, and yet one of the hardest to master. A low skill floor /= a low skill ceiling. Low complexity of game mechanics /= a low skill ceiling either.

Overwatch's skillcap, like most FPSes, will be infinite. Period. Even if there were no classes, even if there was only one map, even if everyone only had the one same gun. Boring, yeah, maybe, but skillcap is inconsequential to that.

Unless they will follow the road of abilities > aim (just like McCree's ult https://youtu.be/8Wmw5CXp3bw?t=54s ) and there goes your "infinite" skillcap.

I'm honestly worried that aim in this game will be secondary and LMBs attacks will just be there to fill the time waiting for that "OMFGULT".

As for Bovine:
I see things this way: http://static.mapcore.org/uploads/mo...1375553426.gif . I look at new games and I can see that less and less part of the whole medium represents any challenge at all. I do realise that's mostly because the audience has grown. Back in the days - games were mostly for computer geeks, for people who already had some idea about "how things work" and so they could push the challenge further. Now, games are to be expected to be picked up and played by everyone - in word: CONSUMED. Whole medium is re-arranged to consume content in the easiest way possible, just like a movie.

That's why when games like Bloodborne appear there is this wave of disgruntled crybabies, because not only they can't consume fast enough, they can't even finish it. But it's ok. Some time ago, developers did not assume their game will be finished by everyone - that's the whole fucking point.

[Mormolyce]

Yeah, so again, you're trying this nonsensical "old school gamer" stuff. Next thing I know, you'll be linking the, "Gamers today can't finish Super Mario Brothers level 1!" video because you really believe this crap.

I find it pretty funny that that picture is about 90s FPS.

Because DOOM 2 was really intellectually challenging lol.

Also, the NES Super Mario games were made by sadists.

[Wildmoon]

Disagree. Sorry but in watered down games there is only so much you can actualy affect. More complex games and more difficult games have higher skillcap becouse there is much more things to learn and to care about during match. TF 2 isnt really popular FPS game in these days. So i rally wonder if this game will not become another boring dumbed down game as Blizzard used to make in past several years. Blizzard have this nature ,,overcasual,, their games to the point when game stop being fun in long period of time.

Casual and accessible games are successful games these day. Hearthstone is a huge success.

[Mormolyce]

Yeah, and most of that "old school gamer" shit is just cherry-picked nonsense. They pick some hard thing from an old game and compare it to something easy in a new game and smugly say, "Haha, in my day it was like THIS, and now it's like THAT, silly kids."

If anything, I've had far more interesting challenges from newer games than I did in the NES/Atari/before period. Most of the "difficulty" back then was just a function of the games never ending, or having no way to save progress, or just obfuscating all their mechanics.

I love old games, I consider myself a retro gamer, but if I never play another game with 1HP heroes with no save system again it'll be too soon.

[Etrock08]

I honestly don't mind Blizz trying out different genres and attempt to find its new niche. WoW is not going to run strong forever. Hearthstone is a huge success, but it alone can't guarantee company's future. SC2 started to fold, new expansion should bring the numbers back up, but if they won't introduce needed changes, they'll start to loose numbers again after premiere. I can't imagine Hots being even as half successful as Hearthstone. That leaves Overwatch.

The question is: abilities/spells VS aim. It's all about how much handicap Blizz thinks it's ok to "even" chances a bit between skilled and unskilled player. Let's imagine an opponent with clearly OP ability (they'll be plenty of those ;> ), can I overcome it with my aim/reflexes? Or aim is going to be irrelevant and Overwatch will be just a game of counters? Blizz needs to think about leaving players a "room to grow". I think HS struck a solid balance between easy entry and skill cap. Hope they'll improve on it even more in Overwatch.

I'm not entirely sure about e-sport though, Blizz was doing ok with SC1, but SC2 was/is a mixed bag and WC3 while very popular had really strange history of questionable balance decisions. Arenas in WoW were a complete failure and Hots is.. just Hots, can't see it growing to enough to really make waves in e-sport community. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure if Blizz can really handle e-sport scene as it used to with SC1. But hey, things change.

The issue that has been noticed with SC2 and why it has lost popularity is because of the HUGE skill difference between professional players and regular players.

We have seen what happens when a skill cap is set so high that it turns off people who play it because they know that reaching that level is not even feasable or possible. In a game like leagues, even if the pros are really good, you still seem to feel like you could reach that level. SC2 however is a game where a professional player could beat the snot out of you in less than 5 minutes with no chance of countering ever.

[Very Tired]

The issue that has been noticed with SC2 and why it has lost popularity is because of the HUGE skill difference between professional players and regular players.

We have seen what happens when a skill cap is set so high that it turns off people who play it because they know that reaching that level is not even feasable or possible. In a game like leagues, even if the pros are really good, you still seem to feel like you could reach that level. SC2 however is a game where a professional player could beat the snot out of you in less than 5 minutes with no chance of countering ever.

I didn't play much Starcraft multiplayer back when it was new but if I recall you played a few matches and were ranked with people in your skill group. Meaning there could be people that could absolutely destroy you, but you probably aren't going to play them.

[Mormolyce]

Personally, the whole AZN APM thing turned me off even trying SC's multiplayer. I play those games for the story.

[Deztru]

Skillcap's probably going to be low, however the competitive bracket is still possible.

TF2 had competitive tournaments and arena play but the "casual" play was much more dominant and fun that it completely overthrew competitive play.

[Deleted]

it's a Blizzard game, that means it will take away a large portion of the skillcap by default.

games for the masses that's the Blizzard way, masses that can't be bothered to invest time/effort into games, yes the game will feel hollow but I figure it will still be very profitable as the same type of player that likes watered down crap also likes to get spend money on micro transaction bullcrap (skins etc) what's the saying? a fool and his money are easily parted?

Oh yes the notoriously low skillcap games such as Brood War, SCII or WC3. I find it funny that mosit of the time when somebody bitches about skillcap that person has never been near one in any game ever.

[Slant]

Without ever having played CS (any of them) or TF2, I came here to remind everyone that skillcap is dependend on your opponent, not the game. Even if they dumb it down to no jumping and everyone just having the same pistol you need to overcome the skillcap set by the other team. Not the game. This is not PvE.

Of course, if you mean the discussion about "Do I like the gameplay?", that would need a different thread title.

[Deleted]

Well, it depends what you mean on skill-cap, every game that based on Teamwork has superb Team skillcap at least ^^

[Stormspellz]

The goal is to have a TF2 style game where average Joe, age 30+ years, playing on weekends only, can start it up and have fun. Getting shot all the time, never scoring anything, always losing because some "pro gamer" that still go to school have better reflexes is not fun. Blizzard wants a game where the skill cap is pretty low. If you find that boring, go, play TF2 and let the average gamer have some fun.

three is a difference between "skill cap" and stream lining.

You see the error over and over with hots vs League, just because you don't have 15 min of laning killing your own wave doesn't mean its a lower skill cap.

[oplawlz]

three is a difference between "skill cap" and stream lining.

You see the error over and over with hots vs League, just because you don't have 15 min of laning killing your own wave doesn't mean its a lower skill cap.

No, in the case of HOTS the fact that your individual skill as a player has minimal impact on victory means there is a lower skillcap. Hots is about teamwork - find 4 other people and have voice or be doomed to mediocrity.

Overwatch will probably be much the same. People feel better when they can blame their team for losses, so bliz will make it impossible for one very skilled person to have an impact on the game.

[Stormspellz]

No, in the case of HOTS the fact that your individual skill as a player has minimal impact on victory means there is a lower skillcap. Hots is about teamwork - find 4 other people and have voice or be doomed to mediocrity.

Overwatch will probably be much the same. People feel better when they can blame their team for losses, so bliz will make it impossible for one very skilled person to have an impact on the game.

wouldn't say its minimal its not as obvious, which doesn't mean it isn't there.

[Mormolyce]

No, in the case of HOTS the fact that your individual skill as a player has minimal impact on victory means there is a lower skillcap. Hots is about teamwork - find 4 other people and have voice or be doomed to mediocrity.

Overwatch will probably be much the same. People feel better when they can blame their team for losses, so bliz will make it impossible for one very skilled person to have an impact on the game.

I think this just illustrates how useless the term "skillcap" is. It's not that simple. At all. In any respect.

Team based vs. carry-the-match-with-your-OP-hero is two completely different game designs.

[Deleted]

I think this just illustrates how useless the term "skillcap" is. It's not that simple. At all. In any respect.

Team based vs. carry-the-match-with-your-OP-hero is two completely different game designs.

Why it has to be "op hero".. why not "op skills" ? Sigh... As I said before, only question that needs answering: aim vs spells - how those two mechanics will divide gameplay.

[oplawlz]

I think this just illustrates how useless the term "skillcap" is. It's not that simple. At all. In any respect.

Team based vs. carry-the-match-with-your-OP-hero is two completely different game designs.

Yes, one design rewards individual skill, the other rewards teamwork. That's what I said. In no way does it make the term skillcap useless, and it is that simple. If you are really good at, say League of Legends, you can make a huge difference in games solo. You just can't make that kind of difference alone in HoTS without teammates supporting you - that's a cap on the amount of skill you can show.

[Crruor]

Yes, one design rewards individual skill, the other rewards teamwork. That's what I said. In no way does it make the term skillcap useless, and it is that simple. If you are really good at, say League of Legends, you can make a huge difference in games solo. You just can't make that kind of difference alone in HoTS without teammates supporting you - that's a cap on the amount of skill you can show.

Not really, there is a personal skillscap and a team skillcap, even if the personal skillcap is low as hell and everyone performs the same but the team effort in terms of coordination and so on is so absurdly high that its impossible to be perfect the games skillcap is insanely high. You can lament the effect a single player has or that mechanics arent difficult enough, but thats not a games skillcap - which is determined by the teams ability to work together. Thats mostly mechanics and the games design.

If games dont have absurd amounts of rng and if they dont always end in draws when played at the highest level (tic tac toe for example) the skillcap of each game is infinite. Hence the word "skillcap" as such if talking about a pro scene is pointless.



A skillcap concerning mechanics however does exist.