To upgrade now or wait? (8yo, 2k-2.5k€ to spend)

[Cosmic Janitor]

EDIT: To comply to forum rules/guidlines/tl;dr:
- Budget:
2000 € ~ 2500 €.

- Resolution:
FullHD, intend to upgrade to 2k/(real)4k in the future though.

- Games / Settings Desired:
Heavily modded Minecraft, that is actually quite important for me. I would love to play that in decent FPS (read: more than >>30) and be able to build large things without suffering severe TPS loss, occasional server hosting as well for me and my friends. Otherwise new games obviously, Witcher 3 etc. in very high specs (I doubt max. will be possible with current hardware, if they handle it like Witcher2).

- Any other intensive software or special things you do (Frequent video encoding, 3D modeling, etc):
Nope, nothing of the artsy sort and my programming stuff would probably compile on most calculators. The few SPICE simulations aren't that time critical.. even though I certainly wouldn't mind if iterative solving of large double prescision matrices were any faster. But I'm not sure if the free stuff like LTSpice would actually would benefit from my roughly targeted specs.

- Country:
EU / Germany.

- Parts that can be reused:
Don't want to re-use any parts. I intend to keep my old rig for hosting and tinkering, maybe as a porn surf machine.

- Do you need an OS?
Yes, would prefer Win 10 immediatly, otherwise win7. If possible I would avoid win8.1 entirely... maybe dual boot should Gabe's wet dream of a SteamOS ever become reality.

- Do you need peripherals (e.g. monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc)?
Nope, at least I don't plan on anything in hat regard.

Current setup:
- Intel Core2 Quad CPU (Q6600 @ 2.4 GHz)
- Some old ass DDR3 ram, 4GB.
- AMD Radeon HD 5700 Series (5780 or something like that? cba to open the case, doesn't really make much of a difference anyway)
- HDD (yeah still no SSD) some 1TB samsung SATA 7200 1/min.

What I had in mind for a new rig (just the ballpark direction, I haven't bothered to look up matching etc. yet ):
- Intel Core i7-5820K
- GTX 980 Gaming 4G
- 16 GB DDR4- somwhere around 2666 to 3000 MHz
- Some SSD obviously with the aforementioned Win10 or Win7 (if that would even support the specs, otherwise sadly 8.1 for the time being).

For those interested in abit more text:

Good day,
my PC (see below) is by now probably over 8 years old (as a whole), it served me well but the limitations are obvious now. So I was thinking about building a new one. Because I don't keep constantly updated when it comes IT (well unless we were talking embedded) I started to refresh my knowledge a bit and because of that I found out that some kind of generation change is imminent. I was considering to drop between 2k to 2.5k € into my new machine, but then I read about the following:

- Nvidia supposedly wants to release a new generation of GPUs in the next couple of months.
- Intel is about to release their next gen CPU Skylake in about 6 -9 months.
- The new USB3.1 standard has yet to find it's way onto the motherboard mainstream with full integration.
- I hate installing OS, hence I would prefer to start with win 10 from the beginning.

and...
- I really would like to be able to - at least somehwhat decently - play Witcher 3.

So my question is what you guys think: Is it worth to upgrade now? Since the euro dropped quite a bit in value I've noticed that many PC parts significantly rose in price recently, I doubt parts will be cheaper in the future given the current trend. I furthermore know that the new parts would be fairly expensive at the start, but I would also expect at least a 10-20% performance gain in the middle to high end bracket compared to the current ones. I would intend to run the setup for quite some time again as well. Since I haven't followed the development in recent years I wonder how the parts would roughly develop once the new stuff is out, this isn't the 90's anymore so I expect it wouldn't be that steep, am I correct in that assumption?

[Deleted]

First of all your rig is indeed really old, you need something new for new titles. Now to help you more you will need to fill out the forums sticky
btw X99 platform isn't meant for gaming and isn't worth the money just to game, there is no difference in performance atm at least to have DDR4 over DDR3 (again for gaming).

Include the following information when posting a request.

• Budget
• Resolution
• Games / Settings Desired
• Any other intensive software or special things you do (Frequent video encoding, 3D modeling, etc)
• Country
• Parts that can be reused
• Do you need an OS?
• Do you need peripherals (e.g. monitor, mouse, keyboard, speakers, etc)?

Ideally include a list of parts, we see the same request almost every day. There are other topics that have parts lists that you can copy and modify.

[Cosmic Janitor]

First of all your rig is indeed really old, you need something new for new titles. Now to help you more you will need to fill out the forums sticky
btw X99 platform isn't meant for gaming and isn't worth the money just to game, there is no difference in performance atm at least to have DDR4 over DDR3 (again for gaming).

I know my rig is ancient, but I had not much problems with playing games so far - I mostly avoid playing the bi-annual EA/Ubisoft dumps. While I would love to have more, currently I'm used to playing with low frame rates (read: 20ish) and low settings, still worked great in DA:I. My biggest annoyance is probably that modded minecraft is pain in the ass. Well most of the info is there, I'm mostly interested wether upgrading now at the end of haswell & co is worth it. I will update my op though to comply..

[Xs]

If you're really lazy then wait a few months for W10, everything else in the current landscape is really not going to effect gaming in a big way. The 1000 series (or what ever they end up calling it) likely won't be out in full swing for a fair while, and as Kos says, DDR4 and X99 specific processors are just pissing into the wind when it comes to gaming performance, unless you have other uses (fill out the list )

[Cosmic Janitor]

Op has been updated.

The 200 more or less I save by not going DDR4/x99 won't hurt me much, dumping 600-650 on a GPU on the otherhand is something I'm more concerned with. Would you expect any major changes in regards to RAM anytime soon? From what I've seen I don't expect the memory to be much faster in the future. Otherwise I'm okay with buying for the long haul and only upgrading certain parts in the next couple of years - preferably on the GPU in 4-5 years.

- - - Updated - - -

So.. I think I'm done with my OP. Added anything I could think of that might be of importance.

[Xs]

My expertise don't extend to the more modern beastly x99 stuff, but I made something closer to what I'd recommend:
http://de.pcpartpicker.com/p/tKw8vK
(pcpartpicker in germany really sucks for range..)

Leaves you enough breathing room for snagging an extra 980 at a later date if you plan to go for 4k, although a single could run reasonably well. And I just put my case on there for €200, gives you an idea and plenty of room to get what ever case you want, just have a check to make sure they can fit the ~320mm 980. You could slap it up to x99 ddr4 if you wanted, but I still wouldn't recommend it.

Someone could probably recommend a different CPU cooler, I'm a cheap bastard and I'm still using my old model H60 so I haven't researched them.

Edit: Oh and I added W8.1 because of the RAM kit, but if you only want 16GB then you can swap to 7, up to you though, if you want professional version(s) though you can go back to 7.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Does Minecraft even run on multiple threads?

[Xs]

I tried to look that up, as I wasn't sure too. It seems to gain performance from more than just single core performance, but I couldn't find a definitive answer.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I tried to look that up, as I wasn't sure too. It seems to gain performance from more than just single core performance, but I couldn't find a definitive answer.

Back when I played in I'm pretty sure it only loaded one core. Maybe it changed since then, but getting a 12 or 16 thread CPU just for Minecraft sounds a little pointless.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Sadly I have no idea either. The server calculations are definitely not benefitting from any GPU power (obviously) and on the official wiki, the "optimal" processor type is listed as Nehalem or K10.5 based, which is a bit outdated. The recommendations for servers seem even more outdated in that regard with intel core 2 duo or amd athlon 64 x2. But then again that is unmodded. Modded usually is alot more taxing and it supposedly can do multi-threading.
Player wise it would mainly be me running the server for a couple of friends (5 to 10 tops), so that requirement won't be that much of an issue.

In regards to RAM I'm aming for at least 16GB as that seems to be the size that for current games keeps latency to a minimum on high-max specs. I've seen a few frame counters of AC:U, FC4, Crysis3, etc where below that latency spikes during play happen frequently and with my current set up would be in the range of permament (to nobodys surprise ^^). Not sure if 32 gb is helping that much though, at least currently it doesn't seem to do much from what I've gathered.

The CPU type was mainly because it was in the upper half of the benchmarks I've checked and still in the "sane" range cost wise with around 400€ wheres most with 10-20% less (relative to the one scoring highest) in those bench marks were only 50€ less, I've also read that it is supposedly well liked among gamers and fairly wide spread for OC (as an option down the road). Nothing of that is really set in stone though, that is just the length I'm willing to go price wise. I certainly wouldn't buy a CPU for 500 or 700 €... but if I can get one that will last me a decent amount of time - and won't force me to throw out the motherboard and everyone else on it should I upgrade - and is cheaper I have no issue with that either. Pretty much anything would be a noticeable upgrade for me after all.

[Deleted]

Don't think you need more than 16gb, also going with a gtx980 since you are thinking going for 4k. You might have to grab another 980 so the the psu i am listing can handle 980sli easily. Also, pick whatever o/s you want

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor (€354.31 @ Home of Hardware DE)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-G1.SNIPER Z97 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (€129.90 @ Caseking)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (€149.66 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Crucial MX100 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (€177.71 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (€56.45 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 980 4GB STRIX Video Card (€617.95 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Case: Corsair 780T ATX Full Tower Case (€187.89 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (€129.64 @ Amazon Deutschland)
Other: be quiet! BK019 Dark Rock Pro 3 CPU-Kühler (€82.00)
Total: €1885.51
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-03-28 18:45 CET+0100

[Cosmic Janitor]

Thanks, I will rethink this then. I'm still not sure if I want to go all out now or just budget. I guess I have about 1.5 months till witcher 3 make that descision. I don't mind getting a second card once I've actually go 4k, but for now one would definitely be enough for me - getting too good graphics might overwhelm me .

[Deleted]

You can upgrade now, but you may miss out on the upcoming Broadwell and Skylake iterations of the Intel architecture, as well as the AMD x64 architectures.

[Cosmic Janitor]

You can upgrade now, but you may miss out on the upcoming Broadwell and Skylake iterations of the Intel architecture, as well as the AMD x64 architectures.

That is what I was mostly interested in tbh, is it worth to upgrade now or should I wait, because it is clearly the worst time (which is up to debate I guess). But then again, I really want to play modern games in a somewhat decent manner, and it's about time I guess.

[Lollis]

Wait for Skylake. That's what I'm doing.

You could always get the GPU upgrade now and see how you do with that before you change the rest.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Wait for Skylake. That's what I'm doing.

You could always get the GPU upgrade now and see how you do with that before you change the rest.

I'm not seeing many sensible ways to upgrade anything about my current rig without replacing motherboard, RAM, CPU , GPU and getting an SSD + OS. Surely I could attempt to fine tune it with dumpster dive components, but I effectively skipped 2-3 steps technology wise. Intel also has the whole 2 tier system for each architecture, and I'm not even sure if it will be worth it to buy the first version. I also fear that the EZB will have fucked with the euro even more by the time so that any electronic parts will probably raise another 10%, adding further to the initially higher costs.

I guess I'm giving me my own answer now.

[Kagthul]

If you are going to upgrade to the X99 platform (Socket 2011v3), consider upgrading now. (There are no plans from Intel to change the socket for Broadwell-E or Skylake-E, so it will be as future proof as such things can be)

If you aren't going to go to the X99 platform, and can handle waiting just a bit longer, Skylake and Socket 1151 are just around the corner (June or July) - a new socket and a new chipset (Z170). Getting in at the ground floor of Socket 1151 would be beneficial, since youll be able to socket Skylake and its refresh/die shrink for about 2-3 y ears as upgrades, whereas if you get into a Z97/Socket 1150 motherboard - you're done here at Haswell. (Broadwell-K/desktop parts are almost certainly shelved at this point and not coming, since they would be releasing them for four weeks before Z170 hits and replaces them, which would be stupid as all get out).

One caveat: without extremely good luck on the silicon lottery and a good liquid cooling rig, your overclocking potentinal on X99 chips is significantly lower. This may or may not even be a concern, as even at stock clocks they will chew up 90% of modern games just fine, and be only marginally slower in those very few CPU bound games that are heavily single-threaded (basically.. MMOs) - theyll still deliver great performance... and for anything that is heavily multithreaded (including video work, or running a server in the background while also playing a game), they will thrash the quad-core chips at the top of the Z97//Z170 lineup.

[Cosmic Janitor]

If you are going to upgrade to the X99 platform (Socket 2011v3), consider upgrading now. (There are no plans from Intel to change the socket for Broadwell-E or Skylake-E, so it will be as future proof as such things can be)

If you aren't going to go to the X99 platform, and can handle waiting just a bit longer, Skylake and Socket 1151 are just around the corner (June or July) - a new socket and a new chipset (Z170). Getting in at the ground floor of Socket 1151 would be beneficial, since youll be able to socket Skylake and its refresh/die shrink for about 2-3 y ears as upgrades, whereas if you get into a Z97/Socket 1150 motherboard - you're done here at Haswell. (Broadwell-K/desktop parts are almost certainly shelved at this point and not coming, since they would be releasing them for four weeks before Z170 hits and replaces them, which would be stupid as all get out).

One caveat: without extremely good luck on the silicon lottery and a good liquid cooling rig, your overclocking potentinal on X99 chips is significantly lower. This may or may not even be a concern, as even at stock clocks they will chew up 90% of modern games just fine, and be only marginally slower in those very few CPU bound games that are heavily single-threaded (basically.. MMOs) - theyll still deliver great performance... and for anything that is heavily multithreaded (including video work, or running a server in the background while also playing a game), they will thrash the quad-core chips at the top of the Z97//Z170 lineup.

Thanks for the info, with a price difference on the CPU of just about 50€ I'm certainly still considering it. That there are no plans to change the socket is certainly important info, which is something I was about to research further once my plans become more concrete.

As for Skylake and socket 1151 being around the corner, the road map which I have seen was hinting more towards the end of the year for mass production for the consumer market and dev kits around the middle of the year, which would be a bit of a long wait, given how shit my curernt rig is.

When it comes to OC I would only do it as a last straw, a couple years down the line and since I would have to oc it considerably then the gain would definitely have to outweight the hassle of liquid cooling. But I have no concrete plans to do that in the forseeable future, even though I would certainly not mind less fan cleaning ... (quite a dusty room I'm in).

- - - Updated - - -

Also, in regards to SSD. How are experiences so far? Is the longer guarantee of a samsung 850 evo (5a) worth it over a cruicial MX 100 (3a). And am I reading the specs wrong or why does the more expensive cruicial MX 200 seemto have longer latency times oO? Is that purely based on IOPS?

[Kagthul]

The release date on the Z170 chipset (which is socket 1151) is firmly July. There would be ZERO point in releasing the chipset if there werent going to be chips that could use it (Skylake desktop parts, in particular Sklake-K, since Z170 is the overclocking friendly variety).

The roadmap that everyone references also assumed Broadwell-K/desktop parts would be here already, and they arent, and there are no signs (at all) that they are going to be here any time within the next six to eight weeks..

which would mean releasing Broadwell K in late May/early July, only to then ship Skylake/Z170 at most six weeks later?

The smart money (and several inside reports) are erring on the side of.. Broadwell-K aint comin, or if it is, it will be in limited numbers as upgrades for legacy Socket 1150 owners, and will release alongside Skylake.

As for not changing X99 - they just did in the last revision (from Socket 2011 to Socket 2011v3), thats why the current one can be expected to last at least one or two more jumps; its also the HEDT platform, so they arent as concerned with forcing obsolescence, really; theyve already got you into the 500$ CPU range, and likely, if you're upgrading, you're going from the "cheap" model to a much more expensive model, so they arent worried. There might be a chipset update to match some of the features that Z170 brings to the table, but the socket itself will almost assuredly remain unchanged (as the HEDT CPUs tend to lag behind the current "consumer" tick/tock - Ivy-Bridge-E having JUST come out recently) as despite mainstream Broadwell likely being binned, Broadwell-E is definitely still on the docket, and is definitely Socket 2011v3.

- - - Updated - - -

Other reasons to wait include the upcoming release of the R9 3XX series, which, even if they arent the great white hope of GPUs, WILL force price changes on the nVidia side - or, if they ARE the great white hope of GPUs, will be the new king of the block.

Shortly after, expect a GTX 970Ti and 980Ti to make an appearance as an attempt to steal some thunder from the R9 3XX.

All in all... its really a bad time to be building new. If you can wait (and arent going socket 2011v3/X99) - wait. New stuff from literally every manufacturer is right around the corner.