Avatar or Bloodbath Clarification

[mkh02]

Hey guys

I note a lot of you are mentioning Avatar as a go to on many single target fights.

I have often thought of this as a considerable DPS loss compared to bloodbath.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

I am bursting around 130K DPS on the opener on single target with bloodbath and my last Oregorger Log was 44K DPS.

I have always found that with Avatar these numbers are consistently much lower.

Cheers

[Mirishka]

Avatar has much higher uptime now, so what you've 'always' done with it prior to that change isn't quite as relevant. On a single target Avatar is very desirable now, but I definitely don't see it topping Bloodbath on any kind of Cleave/AOE fights.

[Deleted]

Hey guys

I note a lot of you are mentioning Avatar as a go to on many single target fights.

I have often thought of this as a considerable DPS loss compared to bloodbath.

I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

I am bursting around 130K DPS on the opener on single target with bloodbath and my last Oregorger Log was 44K DPS.

I have always found that with Avatar these numbers are consistently much lower.

Cheers

Simulationcraft that way ->
There is your answer.

[Wintr]

Avatar works really well on single target fights when paired with Siegebreaker and Scabbard. I tend to use it on fights like Gruul and Oregorger with pretty good effect.

[mirix]

Avatar has much higher uptime now, so what you've 'always' done with it prior to that change isn't quite as relevant. On a single target Avatar is very desirable now, but I definitely don't see it topping Bloodbath on any kind of Cleave/AOE fights.

Why use Bloodbath over Bladestorm for cleave / aoe? Only fights that seem like Bloodbath is useful over Bladestorm is H&F and even then Avatar could be better for <20% Execute spam? Same situation for Maidens.

[Deleted]

To keep it short. You will take avatar combined with anger management. That will be on fight lengths that you will just make the 3rd/4th avatar. If on a fight you can get a extra bloodbath than you would with avatar, obviously bb will be better. Prime examble mythic tectus and gruul.

[Archimtiros]

Why use Bloodbath over Bladestorm for cleave / aoe? Only fights that seem like Bloodbath is useful over Bladestorm is H&F and even then Avatar could be better for <20% Execute spam? Same situation for Maidens.

Other way around, Bloodbath is actually more powerful for Execute than Avatar, assuming the target will survive the duration of the DoT.

Long and short is that Bloodbath is generally better than Avatar for damage, but requires a bit more coordination (and timing) to use properly, where Avatar is fairly static.

[mirix]

Other way around, Bloodbath is actually more powerful for Execute than Avatar, assuming the target will survive the duration of the DoT.

Long and short is that Bloodbath is generally better than Avatar for damage, but requires a bit more coordination (and timing) to use properly, where Avatar is fairly static.

How much better? Is this the case for both fury and arms at any ilvl? Most warriors bladestorm to pad anyways. From what I've seen on logs the only times Bloodbath is being used in BRF is for maidens and h&f when arms.

[Archimtiros]

How much better? Is this the case for both fury and arms at any ilvl? Most warriors bladestorm to pad anyways. From what I've seen on logs the only times Bloodbath is being used in BRF is for maidens and h&f when arms.

No, they don't. I'm not sure you understand the proper definition of padding because there is very little, if any, to do this tier.

Many people use Avatar either because they have Scabbard and it lines up well without AM, or Vial and it lines up well with AM. Bloodbath lines up well if you have Vial without AM, or Scabbard with AM.

Regardless, Avatar is simply easier to use, so many people go with it over Bloodbath. Which really performs better is heavily influenced on gear, fight length and supplementary talents.

In the end, the difference is minor.

[Deleted]

No, they don't. I'm not sure you understand the proper definition of padding because there is very little, if any, to do this tier.

Many people use Avatar either because they have Scabbard and it lines up well without AM, or Vial and it lines up well with AM. Bloodbath lines up well if you have Vial without AM, or Scabbard with AM.

Regardless, Avatar is simply easier to use, so many people go with it over Bloodbath. Which really performs better is heavily influenced on gear, fight length and supplementary talents.

In the end, the difference is minor.

Why is Bloodbath harder to use? I thought the only thing to watch out for when using BB is to make sure to pool rage when it's about to come off CD. Is there more to it than that?

[apoe]

Avatar lines up with siegebreaker.

Siegebreaker can be more dps than anger management depending on how long a fight is.

So for me, I use either BB AM or Avatar Siegebreaker.

For arms, siegebreaker does shitty damage, so I usually end up going BB AM. Arms also has low autoattack damage compared to fury, and can only fit 1 CS into an avatar window, so I do not use avatar for that spec.

[mkh02]

Thanks for the detailed responses guys.

I understand wht you mean regarding length of fight etc.

For me personally I find BB easier to use as it is a case of lining up cool downs and trinkets. I have performed actual raid tests and my DPS is higher on the opener and in the execute phase.

In terms of bladestorm, i would personally always use it when there is more than 1 target. I have parsed in top 99th Percentile on Hanz and Franz and that was with bladestorm.

[Archimtiros]

The problem with Bloodbath is that it has quite a large swing in performance and it can be hard to line up with procs effectively. Due to the short cooldown, you want to avoid delaying it much, whereas you get more leeway with Avatar, who's longer duration also gives you a much higher chance of getting procs (trinkets, Sudden Death, Enrage uptime) during the buff.

You also need to be more aware of rage, the flow of your rotation, and what is upcoming during the fight. For example; trying to use Bloodbath effectively on Blackhand, with all the movement during the fight, is much more difficult than using AM.

[Deleted]

I think you mean Avatar not Anger Management

[VanirWoW]

Avatar tends to play much stronger for me as Fury due to the high amount of autoattack damage.

[SilentLihn]

Overall is avatar + AM + vial a good choice for single target fights or should we use BB instead ?

[Damosapien]

statistically bloodbath is better single target, only 2-300 in it. and then that gap gets bigger in aoe.
also as it has a shorter CD its more likely to be better on more fight lengths if your not going to calculate 'what would have been better on your guilds last good kill' every week.

[Archimtiros]

I think you mean Avatar not Anger Management

God damnit.

Words, how do they work?

[Stoic]

God damnit.

Words, how do they work?

You use them delicately and add as much flavor and spice to them as you can; so in the event you have to eat them: they at least taste OK.

[klepp0906]

Hey guys

I note a lot of you are mentioning Avatar as a go to on many single target fights.

I have often thought of this as a considerable DPS loss compared to bloodbath.


I would be interested to hear your thoughts?

I am bursting around 130K DPS on the opener on single target with bloodbath and my last Oregorger Log was 44K DPS.

I have always found that with Avatar these numbers are consistently much lower.

Cheers

Roughly the same