PvE Sub Help

[bredar]

Hello everyone. I'm looking for some advice on subtlety to perform well in heroic Blackrock Foundry. I'm not 100% satisfied with how I'm doing and looking for some improvements. I have a Gruul parse from last night that is pretty close to a solid run but I did make mistakes. There are a few things to disclose:

-Heroism wasn't used on pull
-I don't pre-pot
-I don't shadowmeld

With that in mind, I'm setting my expectations high for myself where I want to achieve 40k dps (which should be possible without pre-pot and shadowmeld?). I've looked at other close ilvl sub rogues on warcraft logs and they perform 45k+ dps. I'm not sure what I'm missing and if the minor mistakes I've made in this parse would make up that difference as it is very large. Mistakes would include: not 100% uptime rupture and SnD, missed some evis and ambush, did not use cds on last few seconds before kill. I'm looking to see if those mistakes would put me at 40k dps or I'm I in a state where I need to completely rework what I'm doing? In any case, here is the parse

<edit>
Found out I can't post links but here they are you just have to copy and paste into a browser....

warcraftlogs.com/reports/7zA9Tvf8MHd3F6jD#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=14
us.battle.net/wow/en/character/shattered-hand/Bredar/simple

[dinth]

Why are you not doing the three things you mentioned? There's absolutely no reason to not heroism on pull or to pre-pot. Honestly those two things alone will make a big difference towards what you're wanting to achieve. Small things I noticed just briefly looking over your logs are, like you said, lower than acceptable uptimes on rupture and SnD (91% rupture, 93% SnD), and you used hemo during a shadow reflection, which you don't ever want to do. Looks like you might have some cheap enchants (ring, neck) as well, small but helps. Use 125 food and augment rune. Your find weakness uptime is low, it should be higher than 47%, assuming you're using subterfuge/glyph of vanish.

[bredar]

Why are you not doing the three things you mentioned? There's absolutely no reason to not heroism on pull or to pre-pot. Honestly those two things alone will make a big difference towards what you're wanting to achieve. Small things I noticed just briefly looking over your logs are, like you said, lower than acceptable uptimes on rupture and SnD (both around 93%), and you used hemo during a shadow reflection, which you don't ever want to do. Looks like you might have some cheap enchants (ring, neck) as well, small but helps. Use 125 food and augment rune.

I guess I never did the 3 things in the past because I wasn't aware of how much of a difference it would make. I'll start putting it in my rotation to pre-pot and shadow meld. I'm not sure why heroism wasn't activated on pull, it's not my call.

Didn't think about augment runes, I'll use em.

I'm really looking to see if I'm just missing something real huge here or if its just these small things that really give me 4k dps?

[gwinbleid]

i am having the same problem as you... hope someone could help you !

[Squirl]

Rupt and SnD uptime is a bit low. Either the log is bugged or you're not putting SnD up pre-pull (-10 Premed -> -1 SnD), but there's also a large gap of downtime. Same deal with Rupt; large gap of downtime. Make sure you're refreshing both of those up to 7s early so it's always up.

You should use Glyph of Vanish instead of Glyph of Feint. That's a good amount of free DPS you're throwing away. Aim for 3 Ambushes per Vanish, and make sure you put one at the very end.

Also, this is really minor, but don't use Hemo during FW or when pooling for SD/Vanish. Only use it when you would have otherwise used a BS outside of FW and when the DoT is low or if you let Rupt fall and can't reapply it immediately (which should almost never happen).

That kill time is pretty poor for Sub on top of all that. The boss died right before your third SD+SR, which is your lowest point of DPS.

[bredar]

Rupt and SnD uptime is a bit low. Either the log is bugged or you're not putting SnD up pre-pull (-10 Premed -> -1 SnD), but there's also a large gap of downtime. Same deal with Rupt; large gap of downtime. Make sure you're refreshing both of those up to 7s early so it's always up.

You should use Glyph of Vanish instead of Glyph of Feint. That's a good amount of free DPS you're throwing away. Aim for 3 Ambushes per Vanish, and make sure you put one at the very end.

Also, this is really minor, but don't use Hemo during FW or when pooling for SD/Vanish. Only use it when you would have otherwise used a BS outside of FW and when the DoT is low or if you let Rupt fall and can't reapply it immediately (which should almost never happen).

That kill time is pretty poor for Sub on top of all that. The boss died right before your third SD+SR, which is your lowest point of DPS.

Not doing snd pre-pull with premed... I'll start doing that.

I've been refreshing snd and rupture at the last second to make the most of it. I've read to refresh as early as 7 seconds but thought that would be a waste?

I've thought of glyphing for vanish instead of feint. I will try it out.

I used hemo to put up debuff because my rupture was or is off. I have a hard time tracking rupture because it falls off really fast when the ticks advance when dumping cps and energy after pooling.

The kill time is what I think will make a difference with my dps, all these other things being mentioned will help but to get that 40k+ dps will most likely be from kill time. At least that's my thought.

The real question is, with my current gear setup, what am I suppose to be pulling on gruul? Shadowcraft says 36k dps which I can do but on warcraft logs I see similar ilvl rogues doing 46k dps. I've also seen some with mythic weapons, is that it too? I understand there are a few things I can improve but I don't see it being a whole 10k dps. It seems to really be the kill time (right after 4 mins is pretty much perfect).

[dinth]

I've been refreshing snd and rupture at the last second to make the most of it. I've read to refresh as early as 7 seconds but thought that would be a waste?

If you refresh either when it has less than 30%? of it's original uptime, that gets added on to the new application. So you can refresh SnD at ~10 seconds and rupture at ~6 seconds and not lose anything.

[bredar]

If you refresh either when it has less than 30%? of it's original uptime, that gets added on to the new application. So you can refresh SnD at ~10 seconds and rupture at ~6 seconds and not lose anything.

I did not know this... this helps a ton!! I won't be so stressed about uptimes as much now. Thanks so much!

- - - Updated - - -

i am having the same problem as you... hope someone could help you !

Hopefully we will both find out together!

[bredar]

A follow up for those who are wondering...

I made some great progress on our farm night last week for heroic gruul. I managed to pull 39.7k dps on gruul! (I'm just gonna say 40k dps... :P)

I'm pretty happy about this and of course I'm going to aim for more.

I made sure hero was used on pull, although the ele shaman wanted to wait for some stacks...
I started to pre-pot and practiced it a lot. Then 2nd pot when all cds are up.
I premed before fight and then SnD. It would be nice to get crit heals to gain full cps but oh well.
I can't seem to get shadowmeld to work, I'm not sure if I'm using it correctly? It doesn't seem to drop combat for me to restealth to gain buffs.
Rupture went from 91% uptime to 93%, still room for improvement.
SnD was 93% to 99.93%
I still probably missed some ambushes and some timed evis.
Would of been nice to use cds again (prolong the fight about 20 secs more)

I'm glad I pretty much have the basics down and its just the matter of fine tuning and also some luck. I think the 45k dps goal will have to have the stars align with high proc rates, crits, and kill time. But I am still very happy with 40k dps.

warcraftlogs.com/reports/mRCxXw8P2rhLMbBD#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=20

[Squirl]

It would be nice to get crit heals to gain full cps but oh well.

This is no longer possible. OOC crits don't give HaT CPs.

I can't seem to get shadowmeld to work, I'm not sure if I'm using it correctly? It doesn't seem to drop combat for me to restealth to gain buffs.

Shadowmeld doesn't drop boss combat or change your bar. It just allows you to use stealth moves. Most people use a macro:

/cast Shadowmeld
/cast Premeditation
/cast Ambush

You might have to press it twice. If you move or take any damage before the Amb goes off, Shadowmeld will break.