Getting to Legend rank- more about skill or about time?

[zenga]

Everyone who has an average understanding of the basic game mechanics can achieve legend with a deck like face hunter, as long as you play enough games. The stamina to sit through bad streaks and deal with bad rng is far more important than 'skill' with that deck. I've done the grind once and I was on the verge of becoming absolutely nuts when going from rank 1 4 stars to rank 3 in 1 sitting. If you can deal with that and switch your brain off, then anyone can get legend with such a deck. Reaching legend on the other hand with a shaman in the current meta, or with hand lock, priest, etc ... requires a whole lot more skill. But in the end the reward is the same: legend.

[muto]

Question is easily answered as the 3 decks that require no skill at all can all hit legend in a decent amount of time:
- Facehunter
- Murlock Warlock
- Mechmage

No, just no.

[Deleted]

No, just no.

I agree. It works when the opponent mulligans for Handlock or simply has terrible draws, but it is very fragile. Another day I was playing Shaman and after seeing Handlocks and Demonhandlocks left and right I faced another warlock. I obviously searched for my Hexes and Silences since that was what I was expecting, but what did I face? Murlock Warlock! I got completely thrashed by it and game was over extremely fast. With that said If I had drawn 1 single Lightning Storm he wouldn't have been able to do anything at all and that's Murlock Warlock's weakness: 1 single aoe and they are out of the game.

[kaiadam]

I think the choices are flawed - in that of course both skill and time matter to a degree, but how much does each matter?

If your skill allows you to win 51% of your matches, it'll take you about 4000 games to hit legend.
If your skill allows you to win 55% of your matches, it'll take you about 800 games to hit legend.
If your skill allows you to win 60% of your matches, it'll take you about 400 games to hit legend.
If your skill allows you to win 65% of your matches, it'll take you about 260 games to hit legend.
If your skill allows you to win 70% of your matches, it'll take you about 200 games to hit legend.
Etc. etc.

As you can see, by the time each 1% win rate grants less than 20 games decrease to hit legend, you're already high enough skill that you'll likely hit it if you play with any regular frequency. By my reasoning, skill plays a far more important role in hitting legend than time - improving your skill by X% will allow you to get to legend easier than the same percentage more time at every skill level unless you already had like a 99% win rate already.

The "I just need more time" argument is seen very often with people who are usually in the 50s with their win percentage. Yes, eventually you'd hit legend if you just straight up ground it out. On the other hand, if you played better, you'd already be there.

The Xixo comparison is a little flawed. Sure, it takes him ~30 hours to hit legend, but that's also because he's playing every game against previously legend players, usually high legend. And even then, his win rate is around 65%, which is damn impressive. It's a far more difficult feat than just racing to legend in 8 hours at the end of the season (which streamers have done) when all you have to do is mow through players who are still not legend after a month of playing.

[Mormolyce]

I agree. It works when the opponent mulligans for Handlock or simply has terrible draws, but it is very fragile. Another day I was playing Shaman and after seeing Handlocks and Demonhandlocks left and right I faced another warlock. I obviously searched for my Hexes and Silences since that was what I was expecting, but what did I face? Murlock Warlock! I got completely thrashed by it and game was over extremely fast. With that said If I had drawn 1 single Lightning Storm he wouldn't have been able to do anything at all and that's Murlock Warlock's weakness: 1 single aoe and they are out of the game.

Murloc decks are a pure RNG rush. If they get lucky they can rush you down in 3-4 turns but if they get controlled/AOE at any point they fall apart. It's like a very weak, simplistic Zoo deck. Its win rate is generally poor so you don't see them much in higher ranks.

In theory a Murloc deck COULD get to legend given enough time and a lot of luck, but it would be mostly a fluke.

[Deleted]

time matters most.
Just play a (confirmed legendary) netdeck, read some instructions how to play it, and then do it.
The more you play this deck the better you understand it and the better your choices are going to be (=skill).
But without enough time this doesn't matter.
Sure if your are a pro Player, than you might hit legend in a record time. But it takes a lot of time to become a pro player so...

[Deleted]

I think both matter.

I usually end up stalling out around rank 3 because win streaks become less frequent and leveling those last few ranks takes longer than I usually care about.

That said, I've seen plenty of people and decks that wouldn't get that far to begin with. Being unskilled or not having enough time will both bar you from legend rank.
Considering how quick some players hit legendary, a lot of time isn't necessarily required, especially if you've conjured up a deck that people don't know how to play against.
Likewise, as long as you have an above 50% winrate you should hit legend eventually, since 50% would break even on stars I believe and if you can get a win streak at any point it nets you extra, but it'd be a helluva grind if you were winning by such small margins.

[Schalde]

Well i played around 500 games last month and only reached rank 5. Then i hear ppl reached it in 150 so yes there is a different. In my defensive i do play 5-6 different decks.

[Deleted]

there is no such thing as skill in hearthstone to be honest, it just requires the right deck.

Ive seen total nobodies beat the crap out of kolento, and a rank 25 chicken kick Amaz's ass

lol, so clueless.

[Sting]

I usually get to rank 7-8 just by doing dailies every month. My main decks are Ramp/combo druid and Midrange/control paladin but occasionally I play zoolock or facehunter if I get a 5 win daily for those.

I could probably get to legend with my ramp druid even though I don't have Sylvanas or Dr. Balanced, but I'm not sure how long it'd take me. Quite frankly, I don't care enough about just a cardback since I'm never going to get blizzcon points or w/e.

[Deleted]

I usually get to rank 7-8 just by doing dailies every month. My main decks are Ramp/combo druid and Midrange/control paladin but occasionally I play zoolock or facehunter if I get a 5 win daily for those.

I could probably get to legend with my ramp druid even though I don't have Sylvanas or Dr. Balanced, but I'm not sure how long it'd take me. Quite frankly, I don't care enough about just a cardback since I'm never going to get blizzcon points or w/e.

As I said before, a lot of people make this assumption because of the win streak bonus stars. There is a big gap between rank 5 and legend.

[Deleted]

Anyone with a decent deck that can keep a decent win rate can make legendary if they invest the time, skill will just help you get there a bit faster. ofc if you are totally clueless and have a horrible win/loss ratio than all the time won't help so .. both are important ^^

[Schalde]

Found this on reddit yesterday ... give people a pretty good indication about what to expect to reach rank 5 and legend

http://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveH...ake_to_get_to/

Im at rank 11 now with 140games played and a 53% win, so hopefully there is a chance this season for me to reach rank 5 or legend

[Ravingmad]

Its like poker. Yes theres luck, but also skill and how to use your cards at the right time. But skill explains why we often see the same people at the finals.

[Shinzai]

Skill is important, but a strong deck and enough time can get you there. You can have the best card reads and plays around, but a weak deck, or not being able to commit enough time to play through the ranks will not get you legend.

[rda]

I don't know about legend, but getting to rank 5 surely depends on time way more than on anything else, thanks to the win/loss star reward imbalance.

[kaiadam]

So there was this stream contest thing recently where pros were given a fresh account on day 1 of ladder reset. The goal was to hit as high of a rank as you could within 24 hours (you got a booster pack every hour or something). In addition, warrior and hunter were globally banned while warlock and Mage were selectively banned.

At the end of the day, most contestants managed rank 4. On day one of ladder reset. If you can hit rank 12 or 13 on day 1, you have the skill to hit legend easy, and these guys got to 4. With fresh accounts, minimal cards, and the three of the most powerful ladder classes outright banned.

[rda]

So there was this stream contest thing recently where pros were given a fresh account on day 1 of ladder reset. The goal was to hit as high of a rank as you could within 24 hours (you got a booster pack every hour or something). In addition, warrior and hunter were globally banned while warlock and Mage were selectively banned.

At the end of the day, most contestants managed rank 4. On day one of ladder reset. If you can hit rank 12 or 13 on day 1, you have the skill to hit legend easy, and these guys got to 4. With fresh accounts, minimal cards, and the three of the most powerful ladder classes outright banned.

For perspective, they were given account + both expansions + around 50 decks each on average. That's equivalent to 12k gold = 8 months of doing dailies.

That's the only reason these guys got to 4.

[rda]

"The only reason"

You guys really will try your hardest to make it sound so impossible to actually win in HS.

Alright, perhaps I should rephrase: if the casters didn't have the equivalent of 12k given to them, they wouldn't have made rank 4 (maybe rank 15, maybe 12, we might never know).

Skill plays a role, it's just that cards play a bigger role.

[kaiadam]

So the fact that by hour #6, they were at rank 10 (which, as I mentioned, is already higher than the threshold for legendary) with 10ish packs opened, has no bearing on this? You'll notice that their decks were mostly done as soon as they were created, more cards just opened up more variety to pick from.