Barrage reveals stealth players, fair/unfair?

[Micfeind]

stealth classes complaining about PvP..
barrage is working fine if you are in the area that the "barrage" of arrows or bullets fly and you get knocked out of stealth or are revealed then that's not a fault on the ability. That's like saying that a guy fired a flamethrower into a room but you were hiding under a carpet and should escape harm

[tangers58]

Meh, stealth has been too strong in this game since cata, and now you don't want aoe to break it either?

[Ryanite]

But that's exactly what you are asking for Stealth to do! You want it to be a magic button of "I win" - it isn't. It's a powerful tool. Approaching from behind when in stealth has always been a good idea, for a whole host of reasons. (And hunters have always been dangerous to rogues.) For my money, bleeds are (or at least were) a far, far more abusive and unbalanced thing for rogues to have to deal with than any AoE, no matter how bad.

you have done nothing but take things I have written and twist them into things that I have not. I'll make it simple for you. My target is a hunter 40 yards away from me, little jimmy is my team mate standing 15 yards to my right. Now the fastest way to get to Mr hunter is to walk directly at him to a point where he is still unable to see me, then make a small circle around him to his behind and remain unseen. Now any time during my walk toward the hunter I could have been revealed by barrage because little jimmy is standing over there behind me. What everyone seems to want me to do is instead of walk toward the hunter for the beginning of my assault, I take a massive semi circle detour all the way around behind the hunter effectively doubling my walk time.

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stealth classes complaining about PvP..
barrage is working fine if you are in the area that the "barrage" of arrows or bullets fly and you get knocked out of stealth or are revealed then that's not a fault on the ability. That's like saying that a guy fired a flamethrower into a room but you were hiding under a carpet and should escape harm

But barrage doesn't just fire a huge flame thrower worth of arrows, it's fires a single stream for each target in the cone, so how do I tell where the cone starts and ends?

[Micfeind]

you have done nothing but take things I have written and twist them into things that I have not. I'll make it simple for you. My target is a hunter 40 yards away from me, little jimmy is my team mate standing 15 yards to my right. Now the fastest way to get to Mr hunter is to walk directly at him to a point where he is still unable to see me, then make a small circle around him to his behind and remain unseen. Now any time during my walk toward the hunter I could have been revealed by barrage because little jimmy is standing over there behind me. What everyone seems to want me to do is instead of walk toward the hunter for the beginning of my assault, I take a massive semi circle detour all the way around behind the hunter effectively doubling my walk time.

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But barrage doesn't just fire a huge flame thrower worth of arrows, it's fires a single stream for each target in the cone, so how do I tell where the cone starts and ends?

It's called been tactical, you have to work out a plan of attack even if it means taking a huge detour from point A to point B

[Super Kami Dende]

Seems fair to me, being Stealthed doesn't make you intangible. You will still be hit by shit you stand in front of.

Though this seems like a Rogue complaining because he can't 100% always be able to open from Stealth.

Protip: Approach from behind.

[clevin]

Would you try to cone of cold a player who was 40 yards away from you? nope, but if for some reason you did and revealed me about to pounce, welp thats just bad luck for me. But when hunters have the intention of damaging a target that is no where near me but get the bonus value of revealing me, now I think that's not fair.

If Cone did damage comparable to Barrage at 40 yards, why wouldn't a mage use it? I'm sorry but this just reads as you whining about your iWin button getting nerfed. You also utterly fuck your own argument... if you'd be fine with CoC revealing you (a cone AOE), then why is Barrage different?

[Ryanite]

If Cone did damage comparable to Barrage at 40 yards, why wouldn't a mage use it? I'm sorry but this just reads as you whining about your iWin button getting nerfed. You also utterly fuck your own argument... if you'd be fine with CoC revealing you (a cone AOE), then why is Barrage different?

because barrage is unique, as it isn't really a cone. here is the tooltip "Rapidly fires a spray of shots for 3 sec, dealing [($rw + $RW) / 2 * 0.7 * 15 * (1 + $versadmg)] Physical damage to the enemy target and an average of [($rw + $RW) / 2 * 0.7 * 7.5 * (1 + $versadmg)] Physical damage to each other enemy target in front of you. Usable while moving."

people keep comparing things to which barrage is not, there is a reason that cone of cold does not have a 40 yard range because it would be unfair. The fact that barrage is able to hit stealth units feels like an oversight, one that I don't recall being in MoP.

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Agree... I hate how much the role of stealth has grown. With rogue aoe stealth, hunters, druids, even goddamn mages invisible, it's pretty terrible. Anything that breaks it is ok in my book. Starting out a 2s match as a non stealth healer where it feels like 60% of matches start with you standing there like a dumbass waiting for 2 dps to pop out and blow every cd and cc on you at the start is pretty awful.

Rogues and druids make sense to have stealth, one is native and the other copies but I have to agree for the first part that too many classes seem to have some sort of stealth where it does not belong, I had this same thought about how many classes seem to have some sort of heal where it does not fit.

[clevin]

because barrage is unique, as it isn't really a cone.

If it wasn't a cone it would act just like GT and it wouldn't hit you if you were standing next to the target. Since it obviously IS a cone, you get hit. The alternative is to make stealth mean that you can stand in a hail of bullets and not get hit. At that point Stealth becomes a damage reduction talent as well as one that hides you.

[Ryanite]

If it wasn't a cone it would act just like GT and it wouldn't hit you if you were standing next to the target. Since it obviously IS a cone, you get hit. The alternative is to make stealth mean that you can stand in a hail of bullets and not get hit.

You say hail of bullets as if barrage actually does a hail of bullets, it's streams of magic missiles to each target. It doesn't even show the edges of it's range which all other cone attack I can think of do in some visual way not to mention they are 3x smaller.

If someone barrages a target, how do I know where to stop and wait before continuing past?

what other so called cone attack has a 40 yard range, 3 second duration, 180%+ degree cone and no visual walls? Also how big does a cone have to be to stop being a cone?

it is unique and should be treated as such.

[Deleted]

Ahahaha stealth too strong, oh yes because every rogue is so broken right now with its super OP stealth! Nurf pliss...

[Slicer299]

Would you try to cone of cold a player who was 40 yards away from you? nope, but if for some reason you did and revealed me about to pounce, welp thats just bad luck for me. But when hunters have the intention of damaging a target that is no where near me but get the bonus value of revealing me, now I think that's not fair.

All forms of AoE can reveal stealthed targets if that target takes damage. Why should Hunter AoE be the only one that doesn't??????? Calling it unfair is like saying DKs shouldn't be allowed to drop DnD on their feet to try and spot you. Its your fault for not approaching from behind, or not waiting out of range for the cast to finish. Not every AoE in game as a visual limitation that other players can see, so Barrage is not unique in that respect.

You've asked your question and its been answered. It is completely fair and you just need to learn how to play your class better to deal with it.

[Ryanite]

All forms of AoE can reveal stealthed targets if that target takes damage. Why should Hunter AoE be the only one that doesn't??????? Calling it unfair is like saying DKs shouldn't be allowed to drop DnD on their feet to try an spot you.

you misunderstand, take starfall for example you say all forms of aoe hit stealth units where it does not. Hunter has many ways to reveal me, flare me, trap me and has increased stealth vision. Barrage has a 40 yard range a 180 degree firing range and no visual effects to show the damage areas.

now I'll take your example of DnD, yes A DnD can get lucky and land on me but what you forget is that DnD is not anywhere near the size of barrages range nor width so the chances of it landing on me is small, it has 1 chance to hit me and once placed I just have to not stand on it. All around it's balanced and a fair ability, If you happen to know where the player last stealth it's a great way to reveal someone. Barrage has non of these qualities. You just fire barrage with the intent to damage a player not to reveal, DnD is used in that manner specifically to reveal a player.

[solarfallz]

40 yard range, 180 degrees, 3 second duration = no longer a cone attack, stop comparing it to cone aoe.

It's not 180 degrees, it is actually a cone, just a very large one.

edit: also, it is stupid as hell

[Ryanite]

It's not 180 degrees, it is actually a cone, just a very large one.

edit: also, it is stupid as hell

mm but the tooltip says anywhere in front of you, that'd be 180 degrees no?

[Torgent]

Rogues should be losing to hunters. Hunters are a great counter for rogues. Flare, traps, Mark. Hunters have always been anti-rogue.

[alt-ithist]

You say hail of bullets as if barrage actually does a hail of bullets, it's streams of magic missiles to each target. It doesn't even show the edges of it's range which all other cone attack I can think of do in some visual way not to mention they are 3x smaller.

If someone barrages a target, how do I know where to stop and wait before continuing past?

what other so called cone attack has a 40 yard range, 3 second duration, 180%+ degree cone and no visual walls? Also how big does a cone have to be to stop being a cone?

it is unique and should be treated as such.

Despite your refusal to accept it, Barrage is a frontal channeled cone that first need a single target to initiate. Just because there is no animation accept to on those getting it doesn't change the fact the moment a target enter its invisible border, they start to get affected. Think as of it as if cone of called could be channeled for 10sec, then remove the animation except the blue burst of the target getting hit by it.

Now if you are complaining that the cone is too big I might agree with you. From the look of it, looks like the cone might be 45 degrees if not more.

[MatadorMedia]

Barrage is obnoxious and hunters are retarded OP in PVP right now. It goes well beyond knocking you out of stealth; that's pretty minor.

[Ryanite]

Rogues should be losing to hunters. Hunters are a great counter for rogues. Flare, traps, Mark. Hunters have always been anti-rogue.

they sure have, so why would they need an ability that works in this manner? everything else they have is intended to reveal, if you want to reveal someone with a flare you need to be skilful enough to know where they are about to go. Current barrage doesn't promote any of this old hunter play.

[clevin]

You say hail of bullets as if barrage actually does a hail of bullets, it's streams of magic missiles to each target. It doesn't even show the edges of it's range which all other cone attack I can think of do in some visual way not to mention they are 3x smaller.

If someone barrages a target, how do I know where to stop and wait before continuing past?

what other so called cone attack has a 40 yard range, 3 second duration, 180%+ degree cone and no visual walls? Also how big does a cone have to be to stop being a cone?

it is unique and should be treated as such.

It's not 180 degrees. You don't even know what you're talking about (oh yes, magic missiles vs bullets... you should DEFINITELY be able to walk through magic missiles...)

You lost to a hunter. Deal with it. Play better vs whining.

[Ryanite]

Despite your refusal to accept it, Barrage is a frontal channeled cone that first need a single target to initiate. Just because there is no animation accept to on those getting it doesn't change the fact the moment a target enter its invisible border, they start to get affected. Think as of it as if cone of called could be channeled for 10sec, then remove the animation except the blue burst of the target getting hit by it.

Now if you are complaining that the cone is too big I might agree with you. From the look of it, looks like the cone might be 45 degrees if not more.

Because of PvE implication I wouldn't want them to nerf how big the cone is, it makes hunters desirable on fights like Kromog and how much damage it does isn't an issue either, the spell is not clear and avoiding it is only an issue if you don't want to be removed from stealth, other than pulling unwanted mobs it's generally ok. I do think as BM PvE having an aoe spell as one of your more powerful single target abilities is a little odd but that's a discussion for PvE.