Should a serious mythic guild have killed H Blackhand by now?

[Deleted]

Yes, at least be pulling mythic beastlord/gruul/oregorger/hans before you can call yourself mythic, maybe not a kill but still, get in there.

[TaurenNinja]

Mythic guilds that are able to defeat 75-100% of Mythic bosses have no problems in Heroic and will kill Heroic bosses within 1-3 weeks/IDs. Also they kind of have to, because the content doesn't last forever and you need time for finding the right strategies for your setup on the Mythic bosses.
The longer it takes you, the lesser your chances are of clearing Mythic within a reasonable time.

Heroic Blackhand is only "hard" because it requires a good deal of personal responsibility from pretty much everyone - he requires not just numbers and movement but also timing, fight overview, positioning, coordination and so on. He's a great boss for spotting people who fail too much (because they will most likely cause a wipe there) and he's a great check if your raid is mythic worthy or not (depending on whether you have problems with him or not). Or at least it was like that pre-nerf/pre-itemlevel-buff, maybe more people can be carried through now that he's easier to do. I think Blackhand is one of the best designed bosses in the game. It's a rather short fight but very intense with a lot of different skills that are being required by players. Game needs more bosses like that.

[Last Starfighter]

If you're "serious" mythic guild you should have had HEROIC Blackhand by now. If you raid three nights a week and can't kill Blackhand still, IMO, that's pretty sad.

Yeah. A serious mythic guild would have had Heroic Blackhand down the first week.

[Krazzorx]

I think a lot of people forget that you advertise to a specific audience, not the "correct" term defined by a niche of the intended audience.

If you're just killing heroic Blackhand now, that means you are going to be raiding 1/2 a tier or more in mythic. When you're killing Blackhand that "early" you have to plan for it and recruit for it.

[Deleted]

Opps misclicked, as I thought you the poll was "Should a serious mythic guild have killed M Blackhand by now".

I voted no, but incorrectly!

You are not a serious mythic guild if you have not killed H blackhand 7(?) weeks into progress.

[Deleted]

No they shouldn´t. Unless your definition of serious only factors in the guilds that killed mythic Blackhand by now

[Bamboozles]

A serious mythic raid group should be trying to kill him in... well, mythic?

It's time for you to search for another guild or change some raiders. GL though, I hear guilds are having a very hard time in finding good 20M groups because of bleeding subs.

that's not at all what the problem is with Mythic Blackhand.

nice try though.

[Dangers]

I think people here are confusing a good mythic guild with a serious mythic guild. A good mythic guild already has mythic kills, a serious mythic guild can still be working their way to Mythic due to recruting issues, time issues, etc... A serious mythic guild means they want to work on Mythic as their main goal, whether they get kills or not, that is their end game. They still want and appreciate the difficulty in Mythic. As for recruiting, you recruit for mythic focused players, even if you aren't there yet because that's the type of player you want so naturally a 9/10H group or whatever will be advertising for mythic because those are the people they want to attract.

On topic: Having H Blackhand down already is definitely a good sign of the potential for a guild. That's about all that can be said about it. A guild with no mythic kills right now could very well get 10/10 before next raid.

[Googolplex]

I voted 'No', but that was before I actually noticed you were talking about Heroic Blackhand and not Mythic

Yes, any guild who claims to be "Mythic", should have killed him by now...

[BergErr]

H Blackhand should have died first week, 2nd reset at latest.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

Some guilds simply hold on to their old heroic success of SoO and use that as a measuring stick in Warlords and it seems to be an incompatible comparison.

[Rustedsaint]

think we got heroic blackhand 2nd reset but that was due to family issues and afew other things with our raiders.
Personally I feel he was harder then Garrosh(mythic/heroic) by a long shot. But ya, ppl are pugging heroic blackhand in premades groups

[Octa]

think we got heroic blackhand 2nd reset but that was due to family issues and afew other things with our raiders.
Personally I feel he was harder then Garrosh(mythic/heroic) by a long shot. But ya, ppl are pugging heroic blackhand in premades groups

Heroic (old normal) Blackahdnd harder than Mythic Garrosh (old Heroic)....what? For real?

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Heroic (old normal) Blackahdnd harder than Mythic Garrosh (old Heroic)....what? For real?

Blackhand HC is compareable to Garrosh Normal tbh, as it's supposed to be, since they are both the "2nd hardest difficulty" endbosses.

Garrosh HC (5.4 version, not 6.0) was much harder than Blackhand HC, even if you overgeared it with BiS SoO gear (and considerably harder with less gear).

[Sengiratolom]

Heroic blackhand? ye that is week 1 material, you cant possibly call yourself a serious mythic could if you cant clear heroic in the first week it is available, let alone when the raid is this old. You'd be the laughing stock of the sever if you advertised about being seriosu M and not done with H.

- - - Updated - - -

I think people here are confusing a good mythic guild with a serious mythic guild. A good mythic guild already has mythic kills, a serious mythic guild can still be working their way to Mythic due to recruting issues, time issues, etc... A serious mythic guild means they want to work on Mythic as their main goal, whether they get kills or not, that is their end game. They still want and appreciate the difficulty in Mythic. As for recruiting, you recruit for mythic focused players, even if you aren't there yet because that's the type of player you want so naturally a 9/10H group or whatever will be advertising for mythic because those are the people they want to attract.

On topic: Having H Blackhand down already is definitely a good sign of the potential for a guild. That's about all that can be said about it. A guild with no mythic kills right now could very well get 10/10 before next raid.

Your example is a heroic guild with mythic ambitions, not a mythic guild as they frankly haven't done mythic, let alone made it their main focus.

[Deleted]

Yes. Especially with the gear(4pc-bonusses, ilevel 685+ gear etc.) and the recent nerfs. We had a medium crisis when we didn´t kill him within the first 2 IDs (fyi: we raid twice a week and are 7/7M and 5/10M right now).

Some advice: if you "just want to kill him", use heroism/bloodlust in phase 2. We used it it in P3, because that is supposed to be the DPS race, but everyone outgears that part anway. So shorten the phase that troubles you the most. Also, do not bring 9 melees and 7 ranged like we did

[Varabently]

Lot of variables here of course. How many hours per week? How many raid nights got cancelled? How many new players/alts have you geared up?

Also what you mean by "serious." I would imagine any serious Mythic guild would have finished Heroic a long time ago.

[threads]

A guild advertised as Mythic should have killed heroic on week 1 and be mainly doing mythic.

[Octa]

Blackhand HC is compareable to Garrosh Normal tbh, as it's supposed to be, since they are both the "2nd hardest difficulty" endbosses.

Garrosh HC (5.4 version, not 6.0) was much harder than Blackhand HC, even if you overgeared it with BiS SoO gear (and considerably harder with less gear).

I'd agree that Normal Garrosh was on par with Heroic Blackhand (Blackhand is harder IMO, but comparable). There's no way that old Heroic Garrosh was easier than Heroic Blackhand though.

[Deleted]

I'd agree that Normal Garrosh was on par with Heroic Blackhand (Blackhand is harder IMO, but comparable). There's no way that old Heroic Garrosh was easier than Heroic Blackhand though.

Normal Garrosh was significantly easier than Heroic Blackhand. I was in a much, much worse guild at the time and we got there in roughly 540 average iLvl (i.e, 15 iLvls below what the instance dropped from the same difficulty) and took maybe 15 more wipes at worst than it took my current guild in full 685s to kill Heroic Blackhand. Heroic Blackhand just had precious little margin for error whereas so long as people didn't get stupid with Empowered Whirling Corruption and you had strong execute DPS you could YOLO through quite a lot of stupid stuff - on top of that tanks could cheese Vengeance hard enough to completely trivialize any overall DPS checks.

Mythic Blackhand OTOH seems to be roughly on par with 10-man HC Garrosh, in the sense that comp requirements are strict and the fight derives the majority of its difficulty from stupid tuning and awkward mechanics; granted nothing quite on par with "suicide 4th Malice or get a guaranteed Iron Star because lol we fucked up mechanics scaling ". 25-HC Garrosh was significantly easier than Mythic Blackhand, FWIW.

On topic: If you haven't killed Heroic Blackhand this far into the tier, you have absolutely no business calling yourself a Mythic guild. It might be where you want to go, but it sure as shite ain't where you're at. Forget everything about your HC SoO progress a year into the tier with 16 more iLvls than content was tuned for and hundreds upon hundreds of attempts; if you ain't killing Mythic bosses right now, you ain't no Mythic guild.