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  1. #861
    Improved Soul Fire is back. I mean ... even if we have no MC procs we're still going to be maintaining 5-stack of it, right ? And/or using HoG charges on Chaos Wave for the MC procs.

    Seems strong enough to make it worth hard-casting SF / using CW to maintain it.
    I am the one who knocks ... because I need your permission to enter.

  2. #862
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Improved Soul Fire is back. I mean ... even if we have no MC procs we're still going to be maintaining 5-stack of it, right ? And/or using HoG charges on Chaos Wave for the MC procs.

    Seems strong enough to make it worth hard-casting SF / using CW to maintain it.
    I wonder how that would affect our viability of using an infernal in a serv/serv aoe fight compared to the synergy/cata/felguard setup. Since that bonus isn't going to affect cataclysm just the felguard and the buff that synergy gives the felguard.

    It'll definitely have a great impact with the normal serv/serv we do now with doomguard. Can't wait for that.

  3. #863
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Improved Soul Fire is back. I mean ... even if we have no MC procs we're still going to be maintaining 5-stack of it, right ? And/or using HoG charges on Chaos Wave for the MC procs.

    Seems strong enough to make it worth hard-casting SF / using CW to maintain it.
    It would seem that way. Especially if it affects ALL our pets, and not just our main pet (i.e. Wild Imps and set bonus procs)

  4. #864
    Quote Originally Posted by Skayth View Post
    christ... they just reintroduced the original demonbolt in the form of this 2 pc. -.- Didnt this get dumped in the first stages of mop alpha, because they realized they didnt like having the pet do all the damage? So they went back to this garbage? Did they really just brought it back in this bastardized form? My god, they have retarded devs working for them.

    so our single target will rely on rn-jesus, and if we cannot keep those stacks at 5 for the entire fight, our dps just bombs... great. Think I wish the dev that thought of this get colon and breast cancer.
    The problem isn't that pets do too much damage, that's an illusion of logs. The problem is that pets (and melee swings, and poisons, and procs) shouldn't do too much damage WITHOUT PLAYER INTERACTION. Let me just use Combat Rogue as an example: A large portion of their damage comes from melee swings, but in order to maintain that, they need to keep slice and dice up. Sure, the set bonus shifts some damage to out pets, but it does it in a way that requires player attention and interaction.

    I think both T17 and T18 set bonuses for Demo have been experiment with possible rotation changes for next expansion (not a new method for them). Moving more damage to pets and HoG maintnence (I really like the idea of maintaining two stack HoG being a more involved part of our rotation), in ways that maintain the player involvement and decision making of the current rotation. I predict that we will be seeing Metamorphosis leaving the Demolock in 7.0 (whether that's Tier 19 or 20), and being replaced by a few of the more successful trial mechanics.
    Last edited by Orloth; 2015-05-06 at 05:11 AM.

  5. #865
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    If they remove Meta ill be pretty sad, I loved it the moment they added it.

  6. #866
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    If they remove Meta ill be pretty sad, I loved it the moment they added it.
    What? Where is this coming from? I don't believe we are that far down the rabbit hole yet...

  7. #867
    i love meta it makes demo feel really unique and different(for all the bs at least all the lock specs all feel and look different). Id love it we had a unique model though not just illidan

  8. #868
    Quote Originally Posted by hyperbole View Post
    How is it ironic? There's no exaggeration in anything I've said here. Just about everyone I know is totally fed up with the direction the game has taken. And I know no one who plays their lock now.
    I for one love playing my lock currently. Pretty happy with the balance now and the changes come 6.2. It's mostly the players too fixated on the nerfs or their individual inability to play different trees which are the main issues imo.

  9. #869
    Quote Originally Posted by MycantrumX View Post
    What? Where is this coming from? I don't believe we are that far down the rabbit hole yet...
    Sorry. I like to speculate.

    Quote Originally Posted by wein07 View Post
    I for one love playing my lock currently. Pretty happy with the balance now and the changes come 6.2. It's mostly the players too fixated on the nerfs or their individual inability to play different trees which are the main issues imo.
    Deflecting the issue with insults doesn't help. It has nothing to do with ability and everything to do with that careful balance between optimal and preference. Everyone will jump to whatever fits their particular balance. I tend to settle on a reasonable optimal setup where I don't have to switch around glyphs and talents too often, but I don't raid Mythic. Those who do max out optimal while grouching about the loss of preference.

    If you think the class should be balanced as a whole, rather then having each spec balanced seperately, you're free to that opinion, but please don't insult people who think otherwise.

  10. #870
    Herald of the Titans PickleballAce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    Improved Soul Fire is back. I mean ... even if we have no MC procs we're still going to be maintaining 5-stack of it, right ? And/or using HoG charges on Chaos Wave for the MC procs.

    Seems strong enough to make it worth hard-casting SF / using CW to maintain it.
    Well, people have been begging for more "interaction" with their pets, haven't they? Sometimes you have to be careful what you're wishing for.

  11. #871
    Deleted
    interaction with pets is one thing, getting a 25% nerf(hoping it doesnt go live) in order to get it, is a whole other ball game tho.

  12. #872
    So the Aff trinket is now "Reduces the duration and period of Agony, Unstable Affliction, and Corruption by 36.30%"? Even shorter DoT timers, which means more GCDs spent refreshing DoTs? It's already hard to get solid Drain Soul time in on a constant 3 target fight like Maidens, constantly keeping 9 DoTs up, let alone doing so with shorter DoTs and more refreshing. This also will hurt the synergy with T18, as its heavily reliant on Drain Soul....

    This trinket + T18 seem to even more so heavily contradict each other's usefulness.

  13. #873
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by uhhwateva View Post
    So the Aff trinket is now "Reduces the duration and period of Agony, Unstable Affliction, and Corruption by 36.30%"? Even shorter DoT timers, which means more GCDs spent refreshing DoTs? It's already hard to get solid Drain Soul time in on a constant 3 target fight like Maidens, constantly keeping 9 DoTs up, let alone doing so with shorter DoTs and more refreshing. This also will hurt the synergy with T18, as its heavily reliant on Drain Soul....

    This trinket + T18 seem to even more so heavily contradict each other's usefulness.
    It means your dots will also tick a lot faster.

  14. #874
    Quote Originally Posted by Pockitt View Post
    So the demo 2pc definitely sounds really strong now that the effect can stack. I'd imagine it will be really annoying since keeping a decent up-time on the buff is totally reliant on MC proc rng but in the end it's probably not going to matter anyways since the initial demo nerfs on the PTR are still too much for anyone to even bother playing the spec in the first place.
    Thoughts?
    Regarding the Demo 2pc: Although it has amazing synergy with Serv/Serv, what about Demonbolt? The consistent casting of SF with the DB spec should make it easier to keep the buff up, and the unload duration of DB is short enough to make sure the buff doesn't drop from your pets in the meantime.

    With the demo trinket on the other hand... Assuming the 80% proc chance is true, combo it with Imp Swarm and the veritable army of Imps you get through the combo and glyph could give you a near-permanent uptime of MC even with Serv/Serv.

    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Please don't let that become the narrative. >.<

    It's bad enough that they nerfed Demo so much, but if the narrative becomes "lol I'm just a buff bitch for my pets now" I'm going to get so annoyed. Demo has always been a pet spec, if buffing the pet aspect of the spec for 1 tier is going to be used as an excuse as to why Demo is not fun to play then, ugh.
    Amen to that xskarma... Demo is a pet spec. You don't want your pets to do the majority of the damage? Don't take the pet spec, CR/Sac has you covered; no pet at all, it's all you.

    Off-topic; can we just... ignore all the hyperbolic doomsayers who can only scream the sky is falling and keep up the constructive discussions moving forward?

  15. #875
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmtb View Post
    Hey look guys, signature material. :P
    ಠ_ಠ

  16. #876
    Quote Originally Posted by Duckz0rs View Post
    Regarding the Demo 2pc: Although it has amazing synergy with Serv/Serv, what about Demonbolt? The consistent casting of SF with the DB spec should make it easier to keep the buff up, and the unload duration of DB is short enough to make sure the buff doesn't drop from your pets in the meantime.

    With the demo trinket on the other hand... Assuming the 80% proc chance is true, combo it with Imp Swarm and the veritable army of Imps you get through the combo and glyph could give you a near-permanent uptime of MC even with Serv/Serv.



    Amen to that xskarma... Demo is a pet spec. You don't want your pets to do the majority of the damage? Don't take the pet spec, CR/Sac has you covered; no pet at all, it's all you.

    Off-topic; can we just... ignore all the hyperbolic doomsayers who can only scream the sky is falling and keep up the constructive discussions moving forward?
    No.

    You still wouldn't use the Imp Swarm glyph. Because the trinket doesn't affect the rate you gain imps from demonic calling in any way shape or form. Nothing is changing about using the glyph vs not using it. You will still, on average, get more overall imps from NOT using it. Adding more imps from a completely separate mechanic will not change that.

  17. #877
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    No.

    You still wouldn't use the Imp Swarm glyph. Because the trinket doesn't affect the rate you gain imps from demonic calling in any way shape or form. Nothing is changing about using the glyph vs not using it. You will still, on average, get more overall imps from NOT using it. Adding more imps from a completely separate mechanic will not change that.
    Good point, thanks. I was mainly thinking about ramping up the buff from the 2pc as soon as possible in a fight. With Imp Swarm you can take the amount of MC procs at the start out the hands of RNG a tiny bit, but yeah, the reduction of imps over the course of the rest of the fight wouldn't be worth it.

    I'll refrain from speculating in the early morning from now on, as I missed something so blatantly obvious.

  18. #878
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    No.

    You still wouldn't use the Imp Swarm glyph. Because the trinket doesn't affect the rate you gain imps from demonic calling in any way shape or form. Nothing is changing about using the glyph vs not using it. You will still, on average, get more overall imps from NOT using it. Adding more imps from a completely separate mechanic will not change that.
    If you want to keep the 25% buff for pets as close as 100% as possible, you NEED imp swarm on the pull, and maybe after to react a period whee you have 0 procs. Imp swarm is a reliable way to get MC procs so without 3 charges of HoG and everything, you're going to need it.

  19. #879
    Deleted
    Hate to be a killjoy, but tier armour bonuses are horrible way to try to "balance" things.

    All very well to be filled with the joys of having your pet do a lot of your damage...but it's only really fair if it's inherent to the class/spec, not attached to items that you can only get in raids

    It's terrible design - at the start of progress you'll underperform if you're tied so heavily to a tier bonus, you're at the mercy of RNG drops, and you're completely out of luck if you're not in a raiding guild but play at a more casual level

    And before anyone says casual players don't need it...they pay the same sub as everyone else

    It's just naff to either nerf down demo because of a tier bonus, or have a tier bonus to make up for nerfing demo

    Also agree, I don't think they will allow demo to be a spec where a pet does a very large or even a majority of the damage, in essense it's becomes too much of a "fire and forget" damage source and those have always been avoided. Even though yes, it's tied to the master doing soulfires.

    You're also somewhat screwed if you rpet dies, and they have a distressing tendancy to do so even with avoidance.
    Last edited by mmoc7a6bdbfc72; 2015-05-06 at 12:38 PM.

  20. #880
    Deleted
    It isn't /10

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