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  1. #21
    For one thing no, Warriors are not pure DPS.
    You're right that Smoke Bomb and Gate are still there but I don't think they'll be staying very long (well, I wouldn't be surprised if Gate stayed actually because it's far less useful than any of the other spells, but Smoke Bomb probably won't stick around).

    The Spells that were added in WoD have now been taken away again, the ones that existed before are probably due for the chopping block too.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    For one thing no, Warriors are not pure DPS.
    You're right that Smoke Bomb and Gate are still there but I don't think they'll be staying very long (well, I wouldn't be surprised if Gate stayed actually because it's far less useful than any of the other spells, but Smoke Bomb probably won't stick around).

    The Spells that were added in WoD have now been taken away again, the ones that existed before are probably due for the chopping block too.
    Warriors have access to Rallying Cry in pure DPS specs (they even have specific glyph to buff it while in Fury or Arms spec), contrary to Paladins who only have Devotion Aura in Holy spec, which is fine by me.

    To get the discussion back on topic, I think Amplify Magic will 1) either return with another effect (raid-wide +DPS, or +Leech, or -Damage taken), or replaced by another spell (like a new passive, or a personal baseline spell)

  3. #23
    There is no such thing as a "Pure DPS Spec", when people talk about "Pure DPS Utility" they are referring to the spells accessible to classes that aren't capable of filling any role other than DPSing.
    Besides that, an arms warrior can activate defensive stance, cast taunt, and tank, so even by your own arguments it can't be called a "pure DPS spec".

    The words "pure" and "hybrid" are meaningless in terms of spec because specs are only designed to do one thing well. They only make sense when considering a class as a whole.

    I don't think AM is coming back, it was an experiment to see if the community's weird concept of "utility balance" was necessary and has any effect on raid numbers and I think Blizzard have decided that it isn't and doesn't.

  4. #24
    Herald of the Titans Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araitik View Post
    To get the discussion back on topic, I think Amplify Magic will 1) either return with another effect (raid-wide +DPS, or +Leech, or -Damage taken), or replaced by another spell (like a new passive, or a personal baseline spell)
    I wouldn't hold your breath.

    I'm actually wondering what they're going to do to those spec trinkets. They're horribly under-budget against the explosion one and the blacklight. Hell, even against the current trinkets in 6.1.
    Last edited by Kuni Zyrekai; 2015-04-14 at 10:19 AM.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    I won't miss AM, why the hell it was on the GCD was beyond me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    There is no such thing as a "Pure DPS Spec", when people talk about "Pure DPS Utility" they are referring to the spells accessible to classes that aren't capable of filling any role other than DPSing.
    Besides that, an arms warrior can activate defensive stance, cast taunt, and tank, so even by your own arguments it can't be called a "pure DPS spec".

    The words "pure" and "hybrid" are meaningless in terms of spec because specs are only designed to do one thing well. They only make sense when considering a class as a whole.

    I don't think AM is coming back, it was an experiment to see if the community's weird concept of "utility balance" was necessary and has any effect on raid numbers and I think Blizzard have decided that it isn't and doesn't.
    For hunters it was exactly the case. Hunters were stacked quite a bit on all the major fights, wasn't exceptional to see 4+ hunters on every blackhand progression. In the end the class 'representative' balancing to them only matters on the last boss, the other bosses you can stack a plethora of different classes and be as effective.

  6. #26
    Deleted
    Maybe AM and Fox come back as Scroll/Drum /whatever. So u could use it (with a RaidCD of course) without stacking Mages/hunters.
    Something like:

    Scroll of Fox
    Everyone in your raidgroup can cast while moving for x seconds. You can only benefit once every y minutes from this effect.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomathan View Post
    Maybe AM and Fox come back as Scroll/Drum /whatever. So u could use it (with a RaidCD of course) without stacking Mages/hunters.
    Something like:

    Scroll of Fox
    Everyone in your raidgroup can cast while moving for x seconds. You can only benefit once every y minutes from this effect.
    Scroll of Mage

    Grants access to all Mages abilities, no matter your class. When used on a Mage, automatically kicks yourself out of your party, raid, guild, realm and deletes your account. After all, they don't need you anymore.

  8. #28
    Don't try and pretend anyone brought a mage so that they could provide 10% extra healing every 2 minutes, just don't.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Yep, mages were still brought for their amazing cleave, or insane single target.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    Don't try and pretend anyone brought a mage so that they could provide 10% extra healing every 2 minutes, just don't.
    Could have done the same joke with Hunters. I'm not saying that AM was the only reason that Mages were brought into raids, but it was a reason.
    Also, 10% x number of raiders can be quite a lot in terms of healing done. Don't say AM was flat out useless.

    Another simple thing : Healing Tonic.

    68k base, 74.8k with AM up. 6800 healing difference, doesn't seem like that much yeah ?

    Now tell me you've never been killed by a ridiculous overkill, that makes you say "if only I had a liiiiittle bit more healing".

    AM was not the spell of the century, or the best spell in the game, or the most powerful or whatever. We agree on that. But it was a nice situational cooldown, and for once it required Mages to coordinate (in terms of raid CDs) for something else than "GO BL ZERG BOSS §111111"

    tl;dr : AM was the only spell that required Mages to do something other than DPS in combat, and I liked that.

  11. #31
    When did I say it was useless? It just wasn't essential.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    When did I say it was useless? It just wasn't essential.
    Neither did I, but to me it did not deserve the removal. I've been wanting raid CDs for Mages since Cata, they finally give us one, only to remove it a raid tier later. I fail to see the logic here.

    Although we're looking at a very early beta patch, so AM might return later on.

  13. #33
    Scarab Lord Vynestra's Avatar
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    Someone must find out what allys the arcane t18 4p summons. I must know.

  14. #34
    Are people really this worried about AM leaving.

    I know it's an underrated cooldown but it's honestly very insignificant overall, no guild brought mages specifically for that ability.

  15. #35
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Someone must find out what allys the arcane t18 4p summons. I must know.
    Little Jainas.

  16. #36
    AM - they probably just want to give healer more room to heal

    Won't miss it, as mage never knew it did anything, my heal lead does enjoy it on other hand.

    What I find frustrating with mage info is they nerfed Frost, it is already inferior to Arcane/Fire in raid environment, how could they possibly think it needed a nerf

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Are people really this worried about AM leaving.

    I know it's an underrated cooldown but it's honestly very insignificant overall, no guild brought mages specifically for that ability.
    It's amazing really considering the number of people who complained at its inclusion. I guess it grew on them
    As a Mage and a Raid Leader I'm going to miss it, but I think the change probably isn't drastic enough that I'll choose to bench myself.

    (or more likely they are different people but shhh)

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by gallamann View Post
    What I find frustrating with mage info is they nerfed Frost, it is already inferior to Arcane/Fire in raid environment, how could they possibly think it needed a nerf
    Current balance means very little going into a new tier, people like to complain a lot but Blizzard 'generally' does a pretty good job balancing things so I wouldn't worry about it too much until we're a lot closer to release (see the warlock forums).

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    Someone must find out what allys the arcane t18 4p summons. I must know.
    If I had to guess, I'd say a random raid/party member. It's from a "time anomaly" after all.

  20. #40
    Deleted
    What do u mean PH?? Ty^^

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