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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    I don't see how you could want a Raynor over a Valla ever. He is really not as garbage as people think but hes still worse than others. Jaina is IMO the best assassin right now and Valla/Tychus tied right behind her. Seeing a Raynor when you could have any one of those 3 is pretty painful. He just doesn't have a comparable kit. I wouldn't even call Raynor an assassin really since he can't assassinate anyone; give him a more siege type passive and slap him with a specialist tag IMO. He needs a rework; right now he is just AA and Q, he only has 1 freaking ability that's not just a fire-and-forget. Even both his ults are kinda "hit the button at the start of the fight and forget you have an ult."
    Honestly, Sylvanas is over Tychus. Valla and Sylvanas are more often than not the first two picks in every HL match I've seen. Jaina has burst, but it's predicated on your ability to stack her passive.

    Both her and Valla have incredible range, braindead AoE and on-demand single target burst as well as a superior get away. They keep pressure on a team with very little risk involved. It's really dumb that Sylvanas is like this because she's a specialist who does a better job assassinating than Tychus, Falstad and Raynor, combined with her ability to faceroll forts from 100-0.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Sonya does too little damage to be considered an assassin. That's her main problem, she isn't tanky enough to be a Warrior (unless she can whirl through a whole minion wave and that's temporary) and she doesn't put out enough DPS to be damage. One or both needs a buff.
    Sonya needs actual tanking talent options besides Stoneskin and Whirlwind buffs.
    Last edited by Sir Andy; 2015-04-20 at 06:04 AM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    If you take a heavy Q build, Raynor can assassinate the shit out of people.

    I played Valla to level 9 and stopped (back when 10 was the cap). She is a good hero, sure, but she has a weakness for every strength. I'd say she's well balanced. Her ultis in particular are annoying as it's quite easy to counter them. Her Q is often ineffective (admittedly I haven't tried a pure Q build in a long time) and her W is more of a slow attrition of the enemy than a straight gank. She can extend forward to get a kill with Vault but if you do that and get caught out overextended you're dead. Plus, crippling mana problems.

    I personally find Raynor both more fun AND more effective. Obviously, he also has pros and cons. IMO they're both balanced.

    It's fine for Raynor to have few keybinds, he's intended as a simple starter hero. But can still be played effectively at a high level with the right build.

    IMO Sonya needs a baseline survivability buff and probably a damage buff too.
    No he can't assasinate people unless he 100% outplays and outpositions them and comes out of a bush. His Q knocks people away so its not a move that can kill anyone without closing the gap you just made, which Raynor can't do. You also don't get the dmg+stun until level 16 so I would be hard pressed to say that's an "assassin" setup.

    Q Valla (my preferred build) absolutely WRECKS people 1v1 and does considerable teamfight damage. She also can chase or escape effectively while poking. Raynor can't. She only has mana problems if you spam abilities instead of picking the right places for them. Jaina is really the only hero who I think has mana issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  3. #43
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    You're underestimating Q's range, the raw damage it does with Bullseye and the fact that with Double Barrel and Confident Aim you can (and do) stunlock people to death.

    With either Hamstring Shot or Revolution Overdrive, staying in range for more Qs is fucking easy.

    I play Raynor. I play a lot of Raynor. To hell with squishies, I can even burst down a bruiser like Sonya with his Q build. You need good positioning and solid target selection but it is very very easy to kill people as long as you don't suck.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    You're underestimating Q's range, the raw damage it does with Bullseye and the fact that with Double Barrel and Confident Aim you can (and do) stunlock people to death.

    With either Hamstring Shot or Revolution Overdrive, staying in range for more Qs is fucking easy.

    I play Raynor. I play a lot of Raynor. To hell with squishies, I can even burst down a bruiser like Sonya with his Q build. You need good positioning and solid target selection but it is very very easy to kill people as long as you don't suck.
    Try to assassinate anyone with mobility and you don't. Staying in range for more Q's is all well and good until you fight a Q Valla who can outpoke you, chase and escape you. Try to assassinate anyone with minions or other npcs around to eat the stun and you don't. Try to fight jaina, valla, or tychus 1v1 and you don't. You also need to consider that he doesn't have this "assassin potential" until level 16, where people are mostly teamfighting anyway. Valla can chase and destroy someone out of position at level 1 as can Tychus. Like I said he feels more specialist-like than assassin-like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  5. #45
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Try to assassinate anyone with mobility and you don't. Staying in range for more Q's is all well and good until you fight a Q Valla who can outpoke you, chase and escape you. Try to assassinate anyone with minions or other npcs around to eat the stun and you don't. Try to fight jaina, valla, or tychus 1v1 and you don't. You also need to consider that he doesn't have this "assassin potential" until level 16, where people are mostly teamfighting anyway. Valla can chase and destroy someone out of position at level 1 as can Tychus. Like I said he feels more specialist-like than assassin-like.
    After 16 Valla gets eaten alive by a good Raynor and there's nothing she can do about it unless she Vaults RIGHT as he's going to Q and forces a miss.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Lesane View Post
    People put too much weight to the specialist/assassin labels. Specialist doesn't mean you should stay in lane 24/7 and assassin doesn't mean you should be going to every team fight (depending on the map/situation).
    I don't care about labels, but when I enter a team fight, I want valla do kill shit instead of sitting top trying to last hit mobs in a game that doesn't have last hitting... Especially when I play Sylvanas and will just roflstomp through a wave in 1s (literally) to clear it... it's so ridiculous when Valla tries to outdmg Sylvanas on siege damage... and it's most likely a lose at that point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Sonya does too little damage to be considered an assassin. That's her main problem, she isn't tanky enough to be a Warrior (unless she can whirl through a whole minion wave and that's temporary) and she doesn't put out enough DPS to be damage. One or both needs a buff.
    Does a warrior have to be tanky? Sonya can hold the front line just fine. For some odd reason, the opponent is scared of her whirling around and they keep the distance just as they would if you had diablo there soaking their dmg.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    After 16 Valla gets eaten alive by a good Raynor and there's nothing she can do about it unless she Vaults RIGHT as he's going to Q and forces a miss.
    Q Valla can kill Raynor post 16 without taking a single point of damage outside whatever Ult Raynor decides to use. 3 Q's back to back is easily enough to kill Raynor and has much longer range than his Q.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  8. #48
    The problem with Raynor is that other ranged chars excel in everything ahead of him. He's got no escape, no cc, just decent damage. Jaina, Valla, Tychus, Falstad, and Zagara all bring more to the table. Try playing some of the others.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Q Valla can kill Raynor post 16 without taking a single point of damage outside whatever Ult Raynor decides to use. 3 Q's back to back is easily enough to kill Raynor and has much longer range than his Q.
    Sure, if the Raynor you're vs'ing is rubbish and can't hit his Q then yeah he'll have a bad time. Valla can't Q when she's stunlocked though.
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  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Does a warrior have to be tanky? Sonya can hold the front line just fine. For some odd reason, the opponent is scared of her whirling around and they keep the distance just as they would if you had diablo there soaking their dmg.
    Her survivability is 100% dependent on having enough minions to whirl through to keep her life leech up. Even during this she's only really about on par with a normal tank. Run out of minions, get caught somewhere with no minions, or worst of all get stunnned and kablammo, she's suddenly extremely vulnerable. Plus her damage is nothing to write home about.

    I really like her abilities, she flows very nicely, her ultis are cool and useful - she just needs a buff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    No he can't assasinate people unless he 100% outplays and outpositions them and comes out of a bush. His Q knocks people away so its not a move that can kill anyone without closing the gap you just made, which Raynor can't do. You also don't get the dmg+stun until level 16 so I would be hard pressed to say that's an "assassin" setup.

    Q Valla (my preferred build) absolutely WRECKS people 1v1 and does considerable teamfight damage. She also can chase or escape effectively while poking. Raynor can't. She only has mana problems if you spam abilities instead of picking the right places for them. Jaina is really the only hero who I think has mana issues.
    You are correct that Raynor doesn't get really strong until over 10 (specifically 13-16).

    Valla is a very nice well-balanced hero, sure. Raynor is at least as good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Try to assassinate anyone with mobility and you don't. Staying in range for more Q's is all well and good until you fight a Q Valla who can outpoke you, chase and escape you. Try to assassinate anyone with minions or other npcs around to eat the stun and you don't. Try to fight jaina, valla, or tychus 1v1 and you don't. You also need to consider that he doesn't have this "assassin potential" until level 16, where people are mostly teamfighting anyway. Valla can chase and destroy someone out of position at level 1 as can Tychus. Like I said he feels more specialist-like than assassin-like.
    Are you kidding? Valla, Tychus and Jaina are perfect Raynor food. They're made of paper and if caught out of their escapes they're easy to pin down, and you will win the HP war what with your stuns and heal. Yes sometimes they get away, but they get away on 10% and are forced to retreat. Objective accomplished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Q Valla can kill Raynor post 16 without taking a single point of damage outside whatever Ult Raynor decides to use. 3 Q's back to back is easily enough to kill Raynor and has much longer range than his Q.
    You are very, very wrong. You have fought a lot of poor Raynors. It's hard for Valla to even close range to engage because of knockbacks, stuns, slows and Raynor's natural range advantage. You will simply lose too much HP trying to get into range and be forced to vault out of there.

    Raynor and Valla are both well rounded heroes that bring things to the table. But if we're just talking 1v1, Raynor has a serious edge on Valla.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    You guys sure are talking a big game about Raynor. (Raynor over Valla? Really?)

    I mean, I hate to be "that guy" to bring this up, but Raynor has about a 0% representation in all high end competitive play. (I think I've seen him picked once on Sky Temple because of the team trying a Tyrande/Raynor ult combo on temple capture points) Even Murky, Abathur, Azmodan, Chen, Sonya all see more play/bans than him. Because he just doesn't have the kit for good team play, his abilities are basically counter-synergy to any team comp I can think of. You just don't want your assassin to be saving people's lives by having their only attack be a knockback.

    It sounds like a lot of you that are pro-Raynor are fixated on 1v1 situations. Where, sure, he can come out ahead. But the game isn't about that.
    You might be right about that, but competitive representation is all about team combos, not the strength of the actual individual heroes.

    A hero not being picked for competitive play =/= bad hero.
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  11. #51
    People who are thinking Raynor can 1v1 Valla, Tychus, or Jaina need to understand range. Tychus and Valla can poke and kill Raynor without him being able to do much. Tychus can Q channel him and dodge Raynor's Q with his E and W for escape or catchup and be out of AA range THE ENTIRE TIME. Valla Q specced has a range on her Q which is much longer than AA or Raynor's Q and can do at least 1/3 of his health per shot, post 16 can be done 3 times back to back. Combine with a W or an ult and Raynor doesn't have a chance.

    Jaina can Q poke (also my preferred spec) or just 1 second burst Raynor down and he doesn't have a chance. Once Jaina start's poking with Q from a distance you either have to get to cover or you die, there is literally no alternative for Raynor. I can sit well out of your range and keep you 25% slowed and Q every 2 seconds that deals like 1/4th of your health, how is that not an easy 1v1 win? It's not about skill; Raynor just doesn't have the kit to 1v1 the other assassin very effectively. Yes if catches someone out of position, lands a Q in close range post 16, they don't get out or use any defensive talents, and can chain his Q's he can kill someone, but thats a whole lot of things that need to line up. Raynor's Raiders is the only thing he really has going for him in a 1v1 due to how freaking annoying they are and that the making poking him down slowly more of a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  12. #52
    Stood in the Fire mrpopos10's Avatar
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    Raynor is ok for quickplay but no he doesnt stand up against decent teams - and raynor should never be able to even get a 1v1 kill because he has almost 0 chase -

    Valla vs Raynor? lol

    Valla speed and poke destroy raynor 1v1.

    Jaina kite/dmg would 100% raynor while taking zero damage.

    In group play - after your Q is done - game over, raynor dead with no escape.

    Again - he isnt bad....but he isnt a top tier hero versus other competent players.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by kriimsilm View Post
    But as I said. I see that I am capable of pushing a lane solo, BUT I also do map objectives. I DO NOT ignore them.
    When you talk about being a good solo pusher as Raynor, I assume you mean against an empty lane, because that's the only lane Raynor is good at pushing.

    And if you're sitting in an empty lane as Raynor, you are a detriment to your team. Period.

  14. #54
    Stood in the Fire mrpopos10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    When you talk about being a good solo pusher as Raynor, I assume you mean against an empty lane, because that's the only lane Raynor is good at pushing.

    And if you're sitting in an empty lane as Raynor, you are a detriment to your team. Period.
    Uther is as good a lane pusher as Raynor if its against an empty lane.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    People who are thinking Raynor can 1v1 Valla, Tychus, or Jaina need to understand range. Tychus and Valla can poke and kill Raynor without him being able to do much. Tychus can Q channel him and dodge Raynor's Q with his E and W for escape or catchup and be out of AA range THE ENTIRE TIME. Valla Q specced has a range on her Q which is much longer than AA or Raynor's Q and can do at least 1/3 of his health per shot, post 16 can be done 3 times back to back. Combine with a W or an ult and Raynor doesn't have a chance.

    Jaina can Q poke (also my preferred spec) or just 1 second burst Raynor down and he doesn't have a chance. Once Jaina start's poking with Q from a distance you either have to get to cover or you die, there is literally no alternative for Raynor. I can sit well out of your range and keep you 25% slowed and Q every 2 seconds that deals like 1/4th of your health, how is that not an easy 1v1 win? It's not about skill; Raynor just doesn't have the kit to 1v1 the other assassin very effectively. Yes if catches someone out of position, lands a Q in close range post 16, they don't get out or use any defensive talents, and can chain his Q's he can kill someone, but thats a whole lot of things that need to line up. Raynor's Raiders is the only thing he really has going for him in a 1v1 due to how freaking annoying they are and that the making poking him down slowly more of a problem.
    1) Tychus - just lol. Not only does Tychus Q have a shorter range than Raynors, it's interrupted by it too.

    2) Valla's Q range - if she's max-ranging Qs on a Raynor to stay out of his range, you know what a player that isn't a complete fucking spaz is going to do? DODGE IT. Hungering Arrow is slow as shit and if you want a reset you need to Vault. Vaulting forward means you're closer which means you're copping 3 back to back Penetrating Rounds to the face. Vaulting backwards means you're still too far away. Vaulting sideways and maintaining the exact distance would require basically inhuman calculation and reflexes and you're STILL able to have your Q dodged.

    If each Q is doing a 1/4 of Raynor's HP, how are you getting through it all when GMM-boosted E kicks in and heals him for about 40%?

    3) Raynor's role in the team is the disruption he brings when he's not able to immediately lock down and kill a target on his own. He has an instant, ranged, AoE displacement that can not only be fired twice in a row, but with Confident Aim the cooldown is basically nothing.

    Mosh Pit? Q to the face.
    Strafe? Q to the face.
    1,000 Cups? Q to the face.
    Overkill? Q to the face.
    Whirlwind? Chen drink? Illidan/Zeratul on your backline? Q TO THE DAMN FACE.

    A lot of people in this thread have been playing with shit Raynors. But anyway, this is old ground and I've tread it before, so I'm out.
    Last edited by Nikkaszal; 2015-04-20 at 09:38 PM.
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well, like I said before, I'm still waiting to see this "well-played Raynor" that supposedly dominates games. You guys should contact a pro team and offer your services.
    Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there. I play a great Raynor in my 5s team - either him or Valla when I'm playing assassin. Will you ever see me play it? Not unless you happen to be in an opposing 5s team on the Australian servers between 8 and 10pm AEST on a day I'm not playing supp/warrior.

    If Raynor really, truly sucked balls I would not play him. He does not, so I do. And use him to good effect.

    You don't wanna play Raynor, that's fine. Don't particularly care.
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Again, you seem very fixated on 1v1 when it comes to discussing Raynor.

    Which, I mean...doesn't make you wrong, but it just misses the point a little, that's all.
    That's the point we were discussing though.

    Like I said, he's a balanced hero and has pros and cons. I was just refuting the idea that he's weak at getting kills, which is dead wrong. 1v1 is one of his strengths. But yes, it's not that important in competitive play and that's why he isn't a popular pick, that's more about control, combo etc. I'm just saying, he's not a bad hero in and of himself, far from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    People who are thinking Raynor can 1v1 Valla, Tychus, or Jaina need to understand range. Tychus and Valla can poke and kill Raynor without him being able to do much. Tychus can Q channel him and dodge Raynor's Q with his E and W for escape or catchup and be out of AA range THE ENTIRE TIME. Valla Q specced has a range on her Q which is much longer than AA or Raynor's Q and can do at least 1/3 of his health per shot, post 16 can be done 3 times back to back. Combine with a W or an ult and Raynor doesn't have a chance.

    Jaina can Q poke (also my preferred spec) or just 1 second burst Raynor down and he doesn't have a chance. Once Jaina start's poking with Q from a distance you either have to get to cover or you die, there is literally no alternative for Raynor. I can sit well out of your range and keep you 25% slowed and Q every 2 seconds that deals like 1/4th of your health, how is that not an easy 1v1 win? It's not about skill; Raynor just doesn't have the kit to 1v1 the other assassin very effectively. Yes if catches someone out of position, lands a Q in close range post 16, they don't get out or use any defensive talents, and can chain his Q's he can kill someone, but thats a whole lot of things that need to line up. Raynor's Raiders is the only thing he really has going for him in a 1v1 due to how freaking annoying they are and that the making poking him down slowly more of a problem.
    Have you... played Raynor since they changed his trait? The ONLY hero in the game who can match him for range is Zagara. Tychus? Seriously? Please, try to channel Q on me as Tychus v. Raynor some time.

    Valla is made of paper and is NOT a major threat to a fully levelled Raynor unless he's low on HP and his heal is on CD.

    Yeah, okay, Jaina's Q can hit him if she talents it. I'm sure it tickles.

    Quote Originally Posted by mrpopos10 View Post
    Raynor is ok for quickplay but no he doesnt stand up against decent teams - and raynor should never be able to even get a 1v1 kill because he has almost 0 chase -
    One hit from Q applies a stun AND a snare if you talented that. And he has baseline longer range. He doesn't need chase, trust me.

    Anyway you don't need to score a kill to take someone out of the fight. If Raynor catches you in a Q combo you will be so low that if you do escape it's hearthstone time.

    Seriously, you people have never fought a good Raynor if you think he's bad 1v1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    When you talk about being a good solo pusher as Raynor, I assume you mean against an empty lane, because that's the only lane Raynor is good at pushing.
    He's not the best laner in the game, but he isn't incapable of pushing and can force heroes to retreat behind their towers. Yes, you shouldn't lane solo as Raynor most of the time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well, like I said before, I'm still waiting to see this "well-played Raynor" that supposedly dominates games. You guys should contact a pro team and offer your services.
    Raynor is viewed as an introductory hero so he's played by a LOT of newbies and bads. In skilled hands though, he is a COMPLETELY different story. Seriously.
    Last edited by Mormolyce; 2015-04-21 at 03:17 AM.
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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Have you... played Raynor since they changed his trait? The ONLY hero in the game who can match him for range is Zagara. Tychus? Seriously? Please, try to channel Q on me as Tychus v. Raynor some time.

    Valla is made of paper and is NOT a major threat to a fully levelled Raynor unless he's low on HP and his heal is on CD.

    Yeah, okay, Jaina's Q can hit him if she talents it. I'm sure it tickles.
    His AA range is long but the damage is weak. Tychus with Q range talent (see always) can max range him (and stack a slow at 13) and be out of range of any meaningful damage (see Raynor's Q). Raynor's Q is fairly easy to dodge at range (especially since Tychus's E is instant reacting) and a good Tychus will shred a Raynor.

    Please play Q Valla sometime. The damage it does to a single target is silly. Its range is also stupid long and it has a homing component at the end making it nearly impossible to dodge if shot right at you initially.

    Lol have you played Q Jaina since the changes? At lvl 16 her Q will do ~450 damage (~1/5th of Raynor's health) and have a 2 seconds cd with damn near a screen length in range. Don't even get me started on Icy Veins or Ele; with Icy Veins up her Q has less than a 1 second CD and if my Jaina blows everything on a Raynor he can die outside of his Q range in probably 3 seconds.

    Anyway what I am saying is that Raynor is an easy to play hero with a kit to match. He is primarily AA and a decent Q with some specialist sort of ults/W. He just isn't as good at a high level as other heroes, but he is fine for quick matches or normal level of play. He is the type that sits back and nukes damage, but doesn't have utility, mobility, or uniqueness to be considered a good hero.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

  19. #59
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    450 damage eh? Cute.

    Penetrating Round at 16 with Bullseye deals 689 damage, stuns for 1 sec and can fire three times in a 4 second window.

    Icy Veins is all well and good until you get stunlocked for 3/5 of its duration while losing most of your health (Jaina has 2630 HP at 16. The damage from Raynor Qs alone would be 2067, never mind his Banshees and filler autos).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand Banana View Post
    Anyway what I am saying is that Raynor is an easy to play hero with a kit to match. He is primarily AA and a decent Q with some specialist sort of ults/W. He just isn't as good at a high level as other heroes, but he is fine for quick matches or normal level of play. He is the type that sits back and nukes damage, but doesn't have utility, mobility, or uniqueness to be considered a good hero.
    Judging by the bolded part, you actually HAVENT seen a Raynor play since his rework. Raynor AA is dead. His AA is terrible. All his damage comes from shotgunning Qs with Confident Aim, Bullseye and Double Barrel, he plays exactly like a tanky Nova without stealth but with CC and a team steroid.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    450 damage eh? Cute.

    Penetrating Round at 16 with Bullseye deals 689 damage, stuns for 1 sec and can fire three times in a 4 second window.

    Icy Veins is all well and good until you get stunlocked for 3/5 of its duration while losing most of your health (Jaina has 2630 HP at 16. The damage from Raynor Qs alone would be 2067, never mind his Banshees and filler autos).

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    Judging by the bolded part, you actually HAVENT seen a Raynor play since his rework. Raynor AA is dead. His AA is terrible. All his damage comes from shotgunning Qs with Confident Aim, Bullseye and Double Barrel, he plays exactly like a tanky Nova without stealth but with CC and a team steroid.
    I'm done commenting on Raynor's 1v1 (in)ability. A fight where magically landing all 3 Q's without having to chase and assuming they do nothing in return is getting old.

    If I am to believe he is what you say he is, Raynor since his rework is then just 1 ability with average range and good damage that is average in teamfights, especially with any hero who makes NPCs to eat the first shot, and he isn't useful until lvl 16. Good to know we are agree he isn't very good. I personally dislike the Q spec Raynor's since it tries to be what he isn't, that is in close range trying to land Q's, and spec'd full AA with GK and NF at 20 so he can sit back and shred people while having his cc for when he needs it. He doesn't have the tankiness nor the mobility to get into the fray and land Q's on targets who need them.

    He is just Okay. The problem is, there's at least 4 assassin who are better than okay which makes him weak.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    I like how when people complain about getting killed by kill shot which can have a 43 yard range, no resource cost, and can be used again if it doesn't kill and everyone says WELL, HEY, YOU KNOW, IT IS CALLED KILL SHOT
    but when a warrior does it, clearly the ability's name is "useless wet noodle piece of shit strike with an exorbitant rage cost that should do the same damage as MS"

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