Harsh Sentencing Guidelines = the KEY to a world of low crime and safety

[Revi]

That's not the point. You either know right from wrong or you don't. The point of LWOP is you scare potential violators of the consequences of their actions.

That has never been an effective way to prevent crime.

[Elegiac]

That's not the point. You either know right from wrong or you don't.

False, false, and false.

'Morality' is not innate. Moreover, morality is also not concrete; people can be taught morals, and people can be taught to change their morality.

The point of LWOP is you scare potential violators of the consequences of their actions.

Which doesn't actually work.

[AdamC]

The length of the sentence stops being being particularly relevant past a certain point, and is certainly not what you want to be looking at to reduce crime recidivism.

It depends on the crime. For murder and rape it's life without parole. If not than it would be 70 or 80+ year sentence.

[Annoying]

Solitary is already considered torture by many. Adding obviously torturous actions on top of it clearly pushes what you want over the line into torture. So you want to torture murderers? You keep saying justice, but as others pointed out, that's not justice, that's vengeance.

I don't actually disagree on the time, but we need to rehabilitate, not just punish.

[Netherspark]

It has been well and repeatedly proven that harsh prison sentences have zero effect on deterring crime. You know what does have a profound effect on lowering crime rates? Relaxed sentences with a heavy focus on rehabilitation.

MURDER should be MANDITORY life without the possibility of parole in solitary. PERIOD

Life in solitary confinement.... this would fall under "cruel and unusual punishment" and is a form of torture.

[Bdatik]

We spent billions on experiments all the time? The whole point is to exhaust ALL POSSIBLE ways to keep the public safe. It will pay off big time in the long run. When did i say I am only about vengeance? How is life without parole about vengeance? What the heck are you talking about. This is about BOTH, safety AND retribution.

Your entire viewpoint is based upon rehabilitation being impossible, which is ridiculously wrong. You refer to criminals as monsters and horrible people who cannot be changed, and that they deserve to be treated horribly. Not only are you wrong, you've provided nothing to support your claims and on the way there, have denied people their Constitutional rights.

[Revi]

It depends on the crime. For murder and rape it's life without parole. If not than it would be 70 or 80+ year sentence.

Sure, if you keep them locked up forever you eliminate recidivism entirely, but it's not only really expensive, it's also an incredibly harsh punishment for a lot of cases.

For everyone who will be let out while there's still life in them, longer sentencing isn't a good focus to reduce crime.

[Elegiac]

It depends on the crime. For murder and rape it's life without parole. If not than it would be 70 or 80+ year sentence.

No, it doesn't depend on the crime.

What happens is people just adjust to prison life and it ceases being a punishment. Incarceration's effectiveness beyond a short period is highly questionable.

[AdamC]

Your entire viewpoint is based upon rehabilitation being impossible, which is ridiculously wrong. You refer to criminals as monsters and horrible people who cannot be changed, and that they deserve to be treated horribly. Not only are you wrong, you've provided nothing to support your claims and on the way there, have denied people their Constitutional rights.

WTF?? What is with you people making asine stupid arguments about the constitution? So far we have 80,000 in solitary confinement for extended periods of time exceeding a few years, yet the supreme court has not stepped in. Clearly it is within the legal framework.

[Bdatik]

WTF?? What is with you people making asine stupid arguments about the constitution? So far we have 80,000 in solitary confinement for extended periods of time exceeding a few years, yet the supreme court has not stepped in. Clearly it is within the legal framework.

You wrote:

They are fundamentally horrible people and deserve to be treated horribly.

That is a direct violation of the 8th Amendment.

[MMKing]

That is a fine letter. Devoid of any evidence to back up your ridiculous claims. I must also complement you on your fine spelling and grammar. If you were to treat criminals with dignity, like you would treat... you know... human beings. Maybe the American ''rehabilitation'' programs would work.

[Themius]

I agree with life behind bars for murders.

A life, for a life.

That's called retribution, not justice.

[AdamC]

No, it doesn't depend on the crime.

What happens is people just adjust to prison life and it ceases being a punishment. Incarceration's effectiveness beyond a short period is highly questionable.

You can only adjust to prison life when prison conditions are too soft. Look at russian prisons, prisoners NEVER adjust to the conditions there.

[Elegiac]

WTF?? What is with you people making asine stupid arguments about the constitution? So far we have 80,000 in solitary confinement for extended periods of time exceeding a few years, yet the supreme court has not stepped in. Clearly it is within the legal framework.

With idiots like Scalia and Alito on the Supreme Court, this is surprising why?

[AdamC]

You wrote:

That is a direct violation of the 8th Amendment.

It would be against the 8th amendment to lock up a thief for life, it would be against the 8th amendment to lock up a rapist for life in solitary confinement, but for INTENTIONAL homicides? not a chance. The 8th amendment was made to make sure the punishment fits the crime.

[NuLogic]

Texas is honored top lel. Please keep that in texas no one else wants that.

[Xenryusho]

It depends on the crime. For murder and rape it's life without parole. If not than it would be 70 or 80+ year sentence.

Lmao so it's either life for murder and rape, or life for anything else? Know what else we should do? Send peoples FAMILIES to work camps too. Yea that'll prevent crime! Look how well that works in North Korea.

/sarcasm

[TrumpIsPresident]

There's a point where it ceases to be about justice and just becomes vengeance.

We've never been near that point.

We have, however, not only reached but put down roots at the point where it ceased to be about justice and became about pandering to special interest.

[NineSpine]

This is a rough draft for a letter to my representatives. I live in Texas, a state well known and honored for our hard on crime policies.

There has been plenty of disinfomation regarding how to keep crime rates low. They bring up the rehabilitation, but the evidence shows that re-offend rates still occur in high numbers. In reality, criminals who murder and rape once out of prison will return to a life of crime. They committed such horrific acts because they are monsters. We cannot change that. PERIOD. They are fundamentally horrible people and deserve to be treated horribly.
Here in the US, we have some of the strictest sentencing guidelines yet our recidivism rates are well above 50%. If it were not for these guidelines, we would have recidivism in the 80s or even 90% range.

Murder rates have been on the steady decline
Thanks to harsher punishments for murderers, increasing use of life without parole, would be murderers begin to think twice before pulling the trigger. There is a hidden bonus: Those sentenced to life without parole will spend huge portions of their life in solitary confinement. They will be made to suffer tremendously for their horrific crimes. This will give closer to the victims which "rehabilitation" does not give.

Tough on crime deters criminals, gives closer to victims families. From a common sense perspective, this knocks out two birds with two stones... In a made up world, if there was a magical rehabilitation pill that somehow instantly rehabilitates a murderer or rapist, yes, he would not be a threat, but victims families would not receive justice, only one bird will be knocked out, therefor, we should not worry about rehabilitation of violent criminals of rape and murder and just throw away the key, literally, leave them in solitary confinement or just execute them. MAKE THIS PUBLIC. There will not be much deterrence if people do not know of the extreme isolation and suffering that goes on. Making this public will detur would be criminals AND restoring the moral and confidence in the system.

Part of being safe is that victims families will have closure. There is not much "safety" for society if victims are left thrusting for retribution and revenge. They are entitled to retribution and fair compensation for the harm done to them. Murder should be manditory life without parole in solitary confinement without anmemities. You eat, sleep, excrete. During non sleeping hours, you are not allowed to sit in the beed, nap, or lean on any walls. Failure to do so will result in 50 lashes.

It is very important that this is also filmed, and the public has easy access to witness the punishments carried out...

.MURDER should be MANDITORY life without the possibility of parole in solitary. PERIOD.
.Rape should be MANDITORY life without the possibility of parole (Does not need to be in solitary)

By carrying out the new sentencing guidelines AND making the public well aware of the extreme isolation and harsh punishments carried out, we can expect a rapid decline in the cases of murder and rape. It's time to put an end to "soft gentle justice" and embrace real justice.

There is a massive, gigantic hole in your argument, and until you address this hole, your argument is completely worthless:

Countries that have not increased how harsh they are in sentencing, such as Canada, have seen similar declines in violent crime. That renders your argument moot.

[Elegiac]

You can only adjust to prison life when prison conditions are too soft. Look at russian prisons, prisoners NEVER adjust to the conditions there.

So your solution is to enact cruel and inhumane punishments on people who have been incarcerated for dealing pot.

Also, notice that Russia's crime rate is a lot higher than the US'.