Graphics Card Upgrade

[SwiftExE]

Hi everyone!

I originally posted this on reddit (I'll link it here just because it has a nicer format), but no one has replied yet and I'd want more responses if any.

The Build

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard -
Memory: Mushkin Silverline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory
Storage: Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card
Case: NZXT Tempest 210 ATX Mid Tower Case -
Power Supply: XFX ProSeries 450W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)
Monitor: Asus VS228H-P 21.5"

Basically, my current graphics card is a Sapphire Radeon 7850 HD and I'd like to replace it with a MSI GTX970. My only concern is that I might need to upgrade my PSU in order to handle it. I overclocked my cpu to 4.1 GHz and everything has been fine since then. What do you all think about it? Do you think I could just replace my current graphics card with the gtx970 no problem? Or would I have to upgrade my PSU too?

Thank you!

[glo]

I'd steer clear of the 970, it's a flawed card by design. The last 0.5GB of VRAM is waaaay slower than the first 3.5, and when a game goes over 3.5 (which is increasingly becoming common) performance can plummet. Apparently this is a ripe issue with GTA V at the moment.

I'd suggest either a 980 if you can afford it or a 780 Ti if you can find a decent deal (it's a stronger card than the 970 anyway). You also have the 290x as an option which is arguably a better card than the 970 as well at the cost of power consumption.

It's also worth mentioning that you're really playing with fire using higher end GPUs on that PSU while overclocking your CPU. I'd strongly suggest investing in a 520W+ unit for high end cards and CPU overclocks.

[Kagthul]

I had to click on glo's post before i could reasonably say "ignore him, he has no idea what he's talking about" ... but since i did that..

ignore him for the most part, he's got no idea what he's talking about. Had him on ignore for a reason, it seems.

If you're playing at 1080p, even at max settings, you will never see the "issue" with the 970. It had to be artificially replicated at 1440p or higher to even be confirmed. The card is still a solid performer for the target audience - maxing out 1080p with some overhead for future proofing.

About the only thing he's got right is that you will probably want to upgrade your PSU. The GTX 970 has a really light TDP - 145W - and would technically fit within your 450W with your other components, but you'd have very little overhead left for eventual degradation or any uneven power hiccups. Upgrade to a good 520W or 550W Gold PSU and you will be more than fine. You could probably get away with getting the 970 now and upgrading your PSU later - like i said it would technically fit within your PSU's limits (your 3570K is 77W, though you said you overclocked it - so im not sure how much it draws now) and your old 7850 draws 110W... so even if we call your CPU 100W, and a 970 145W, and your other components another 100W, you'd still make it in the 450... but i'd upgrade it sooner rather than later just for the extra breathing room and future proofing. Good 550W 80+ PSUs can be had for less than 50$.

I would NOT get the 780Ti, as it performs just marginally better than the 970 (like... 2-3%) but uses almost twice the power (250W TDP) and is more expensive as it is no longer produced and is going out stock.

[glo]

I had to click on glo's post before i could reasonably say "ignore him, he has no idea what he's talking about" ... but since i did that..

ignore him for the most part, he's got no idea what he's talking about. Had him on ignore for a reason, it seems.

If you're playing at 1080p, even at max settings, you will never see the "issue" with the 970. It had to be artificially replicated at 1440p or higher to even be confirmed. The card is still a solid performer for the target audience - maxing out 1080p with some overhead for future proofing.

About the only thing he's got right is that you will probably want to upgrade your PSU. The GTX 970 has a really light TDP - 145W - and would technically fit within your 450W with your other components, but you'd have very little overhead left for eventual degradation or any uneven power hiccups. Upgrade to a good 520W or 550W Gold PSU and you will be more than fine. You could probably get away with getting the 970 now and upgrading your PSU later - like i said it would technically fit within your PSU's limits (your 3570K is 77W, though you said you overclocked it - so im not sure how much it draws now) and your old 7850 draws 110W... so even if we call your CPU 100W, and a 970 145W, and your other components another 100W, you'd still make it in the 450... but i'd upgrade it sooner rather than later just for the extra breathing room and future proofing. Good 550W 80+ PSUs can be had for less than 50$.

I would NOT get the 780Ti, as it performs just marginally better than the 970 (like... 2-3%) but uses almost twice the power (250W TDP) and is more expensive as it is no longer produced and is going out stock.

Er, not really. Also not sure what's up with the hostility.

You don't need to artificially manipulate the card to see what's going on, it will simply refuse to cache asset data beyond 3.5GB. Once you hit a scenario where the card NEEDS to go beyond that outside of caching purposes, then you see a problem. I see regular complaints about AA and BF4 on a near daily basis, also turns out that GTA V players are having problems with hitching and the advanced settings panel. You also need to research into the weird frame timings and minimum (not average) FPS in said scenarios.

Here, read a thread about it, plenty of examples of different games showing odd behavior: http://www.overclock.net/t/1535502/g...ram-issue/2780

The 780 Ti also doesn't consume twice the power, not sure what kind of math or information you're using, it's more like 25-30% (a whopping couple dollars a year in electricity): http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/M...Gaming/25.html

Random sales pop up on it around the 970 price point, it doesn't have odd VRAM problems and it performs a bit better, simple as that. Only reason why I suggested it.

[Barnabas]

This is what you are going to see if you play gtav with that configuration in the OP.

[Deleted]

I'll have to agree with Kagthul. For 1080p@144mhz and 1440p@60hz a gtx970 will server you well. It will run on your power supply but its going to be tight, also as mentioned with little overhead. You can get a good psu for cheap. I wouldn't worry for the last 0.5gb vram, even with that, the 970 is still the best performance for the money.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($323.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: XFX XTR 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($61.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $385.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-18 10:27 EDT-0400

[glo]

I'll have to agree with Kagthul. For 1080p@144mhz and 1440p@60hz a gtx970 will server you well. It will run on your power supply but its going to be tight, also as mentioned with little overhead. You can get a good psu for cheap. I wouldn't worry for the last 0.5gb vram, even with that, the 970 is still the best performance for the money.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card ($323.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: XFX XTR 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($61.98 @ Newegg)
Total: $385.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-04-18 10:27 EDT-0400

It's not that the 0.5 is needed, it's that it's there. It causes problems since some games will cache and cache as much as they can. Conveniently, it's shown in the video linked above. Go to 1:20, note the FPS (52~), memory hits the limit, scene plays out and the lighting changes back to where it was at 1:20, yet the FPS never recovers, gets stuck in the low 40s. Pretty much a 20% drop out of nowhere due to the card's memory configuration.

That said, the 970 would be great if the last 500MB wasn't addressable. You can sift through that thread I linked earlier for numerous other examples of this behavior.

[Lathais]

It's not that the 0.5 is needed, it's that it's there. It causes problems since some games will cache and cache as much as they can. Conveniently, it's shown in the video linked above. Go to 1:20, note the FPS (52~), memory hits the limit, scene plays out and the lighting changes back to where it was at 1:20, yet the FPS never recovers, gets stuck in the low 40s. Pretty much a 20% drop out of nowhere due to the card's memory configuration.

That said, the 970 would be great if the last 500MB wasn't addressable. You can sift through that thread I linked earlier for numerous other examples of this behavior.

Well, the game is brand new. Why not wait for the first driver updates and see what happens. Drivers make a huge difference when there are issues like this. It does not mean the card is a bad choice though.

[glo]

Well, the game is brand new. Why not wait for the first driver updates and see what happens. Drivers make a huge difference when there are issues like this. It does not mean the card is a bad choice though.

Optimized drivers are already released. It's also a lot more than just GTA, go through the thread I linked earlier.

[Aberrict]

The 970 is the best price/performance card for 1080p and 1440p. It also overclocks very well and your current PSU will handle it just fine.

[Lathais]

The 970 is the best price/performance card for 1080p and 1440p. It also overclocks very well and your current PSU will handle it just fine.

So because they released some optimized drivers neither nVidia nor Rock Star will make any further optimizations to the drivers or the game? Optimization is not a one time thing. They patch, then see what that does then further optimize. Rinse and repeat. It is an ever evolving process.

Also, hell, read your own damn link. Several people in there saying they have 970s with all settings maxed out and only using 3GB of VRAM. Would seem to me that since some have issues and others do not it likely has something to do with specific system configurations. They have it right for some GPU/CPU/MoBo/RAM combos but not others. With the vast amount of variation in system configurations, optimizing it ONCE will not affect everyone. Give it time.

[SwiftExE]

Thank you for all the responses!

Despite all the conflict concerning the graphics card, it seems that is agreed upon that my current power supply may make things a little tight. I'll definitely be upgrading that (thank you for the recommendation kost).

As far as the graphics card goes, I may end up getting the 970 or something else. I suppose it really just depends on my budget and far ahead I'm willing to think.

[glo]

So because they released some optimized drivers neither nVidia nor Rock Star will make any further optimizations to the drivers or the game? Optimization is not a one time thing. They patch, then see what that does then further optimize. Rinse and repeat. It is an ever evolving process.

Irrelevant, stop using fallacies for your argument. You stated:

Well, the game is brand new. Why not wait for the first driver updates and see what happens.

I then corrected your misinformation, simple as that. Don't move the goal posts and randomly argue a stance that never existed in the first place.

Also, hell, read your own damn link. Several people in there saying they have 970s with all settings maxed out and only using 3GB of VRAM. Would seem to me that since some have issues and others do not it likely has something to do with specific system configurations. They have it right for some GPU/CPU/MoBo/RAM combos but not others. With the vast amount of variation in system configurations, optimizing it ONCE will not affect everyone. Give it time.

Blah blah blah, the video embedded above clearly shows the VRAM problem in action when it approaches 3.5GB. No amount of "oh several people claim not to have a problem" will change the definitive evidence right in front of your face. Again, read the thread, plenty of additional examples with other games along with thorough testing.