View Poll Results: Would you fire an employee for bad B.O?

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  • Yes

    97 74.05%
  • No

    34 25.95%
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  1. #21
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    depends on how important an image of professionalism is in that business.

    but yes, probably.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    I mean, in the context of this discussion it should be pretty obvious that an intervention would be attempted first. If someone's management strategy is to fire anyone who presents with a problem, they're kind of clueless.
    Eh, I've seen some pretty unprofessional places of business. Ever read Jack Welch's books on management? He fired some poor middle management sob at a GE shareholders meeting just for being fat. Then wrote a book about it.

  3. #23
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Eh, I've seen some pretty unprofessional places of business. Ever read Jack Welch's books on management? He fired some poor middle management sob at a GE shareholders meeting just for being fat. Then wrote a book about it.
    Wow that's harsh. For being fat then writing a book?
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Wow that's harsh. For being fat then writing a book?
    Jack Welch wasn't fat, the middle manager was. He quite literally saw this overweight dude at a meeting that probably had several hundred if not thousand people in it, pointed at him and said "that guy, he's fired", because of his weight. Then wrote about it. Shit like this happens in business all the time. Of course, this specific example was before obesity was classified as a disease and therefore became protected under the ADA...

    He was revered in management circles for his management approaches too. A lot of people in business are world-class dicks. Like Steve Jobs, for example. Feel free to look it up.

  5. #25
    apparently the guy who was fired 'didn't fit the image' that the company was trying to portray, and was fired specifically for 'being fat'. unfortunately in many states with an 'at will' employment policy, you can be legally fired for anything whatsoever that does not breach discriminatory law.

  6. #26
    The Normal Kasierith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Jack Welch wasn't fat, the middle manager was. He quite literally saw this overweight dude at a meeting that probably had several hundred if not thousand people in it, pointed at him and said "that guy, he's fired", because of his weight. Then wrote about it. Shit like this happens in business all the time. Of course, this specific example was before obesity was classified as a disease and therefore became protected under the ADA...

    He was revered in management circles for his management approaches too. A lot of people in business are world-class dicks. Like Steve Jobs, for example. Feel free to look it up.
    That's called having enough clout to make retarded decisions and letting the fallout hit somewhere else. It's horrible management. And most of those "business self help" books are based around gaming the system and allocating blame rather than doing management.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Jack Welch wasn't fat, the middle manager was. He quite literally saw this overweight dude at a meeting that probably had several hundred if not thousand people in it, pointed at him and said "that guy, he's fired", because of his weight. Then wrote about it. Shit like this happens in business all the time. Of course, this specific example was before obesity was classified as a disease and therefore became protected under the ADA...

    He was revered in management circles for his management approaches too. A lot of people in business are world-class dicks. Like Steve Jobs, for example. Feel free to look it up.

    No just surprised. I don't like to fire anybody even if I don't like them. Granted how much I don't like them can make it easier. Because it could always be me on the other end. But going after people personally like that is terrible.

    I hope people like that guy you mentioned become more rare.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    That's called having enough clout to make retarded decisions and letting the fallout hit somewhere else. It's horrible management. And most of those "business self help" books are based around gaming the system and allocating blame rather than doing management.
    The management approaches reflected in those books are really no different than the experiences one has at many corporations. The point is that he has enough clout that people read these books and take his advice seriously.

    No one in business schools is telling graduates to go out and fire all the fat people. At least, I hope not.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    No just surprised. I don't like to fire anybody even if I don't like them. Granted how much I don't like them can make it easier. Because it could always be me on the other end. But going after people personally like that is terrible.

    I hope people like that guy you mentioned become more rare.
    Firing is inefficient management. For upper level management, ideal management is basically finding people who care, put them in charge of divisions, and press them. If they cause positive effects compared to the current state, keep them there. The basic idea is to maximize golf course time between monthly budget reports.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    The management approaches reflected in those books are really no different than the experiences one has at many corporations. The point is that he has enough clout that people read these books and take his advice seriously.

    No one in business schools is telling graduates to go out and fire all the fat people. At least, I hope not.
    I didn't say that some megacorporations didn't do it. I just said it's lazy management. And more than one of those corporations have wasted away and been forced to take significant losses of some sort or another due to horrible management at all levels.... and ultimately, the actions of upper management greatly influence the entire company, because good managers are ultimately very competitive, and if they have zero job security they'll leave and you'll be stuck with people who focus only on bare minimums.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    Firing is inefficient management. For upper level management, ideal management is basically finding people who care, put them in charge of divisions, and press them. If they cause positive effects compared to the current state, keep them there. The basic idea is to maximize golf course time between monthly budget reports.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I didn't say that some megacorporations didn't do it. I just said it's lazy management. And more than one of those corporations have wasted away and been forced to take significant losses of some sort or another due to horrible management at all levels.... and ultimately, the actions of upper management greatly influence the entire company, because good managers are ultimately very competitive, and if they have zero job security they'll leave and you'll be stuck with people who focus only on bare minimums.
    Yeah I would never fire someone for being fat unless it interfered with their ability to do a job and put themselves and others at risk.


    I mean granted if you work in a job where looks are important for image well then I understand. I don't look like Brad Pitt and nobody wants to see me on the Cover of GQ or a stripper pole. Well ok that's fine. But yeah firing someone who has nothing to do with branding of the company or what they do for being fat seems unconscionable.
    Milli Vanilli, Bigger than Elvis

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    Yeah I would never fire someone for being fat unless it interfered with their ability to do a job and put themselves and others at risk.


    I mean granted if you work in a job where looks are important for image well then I understand. I don't look like Brad Pitt and nobody wants to see me on the Cover of GQ or a stripper pole. Well ok that's fine. But yeah firing someone who has nothing to do with branding of the company or what they do for being fat seems unconscionable.
    Ultimately, upper management should only care about one thing: the bottom line. Is the company generating overall revenue sufficient not only to meet operational and nonoperational costs, but overall expand the business? If the answer is yes, you could have an army of fatties manning the gym and it isn't a problem. If the answer is no, than a lower manager needs to be sat on a little bit until a solution is squirmed out. It's called bureaucracy.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mall Security View Post
    I know it's hard to talk about and if you lived and worked long enough it's probably come up, so if you were in charge of an employee with bad Body Oder as in poor hygene would you let them go?

    And you have talked to them about it at least once. Say it's a security guard.
    I would give them a warning first about hygene. If they didn't fix the problem I would fire them.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celista View Post
    Can't just fire them, need to find out of it's a medical condition first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    http://www.meboresearch.org/A%20LEGA...ODY%20ODOR.pdf
    If it is pushing other employees, customers, clients, etc., away then they can still fire you even if it is a disability. The ADA only requires that reasonable accommodations be made and only if they don't cause undue hardship. Destroying your own business by losing clients/customers/employees to someone's stink isn't a reasonable accommodation and does cause an undue hardship.

  14. #34
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    If they refuse to do something about their smell, then yes, because they would distract and stress all their fellow co-workers. Especially if it would be an indoor job.

    If it's a medical issue, I would first try to relocate them somewhere where they aren't a problem to other people.

  15. #35
    Had someone who worked for me who smelled and refused to shower. I told him he cannot come into work until he showers, he even said "You cant make me take a shower" after 4 days of no work he finally took one and came back to work, was still a problem after that.

    Ended up firing him for another reason.

  16. #36
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    1. Check if it's a medical condition, a rare occurrence or if it's because he refuses to care about being clean.
    2. Check if it's just 1-2 people reporting the person. If it's just 1-2 people feeling it, even if you are one of them but others are not feeling it... you might need to rethink your stance, as there's a reason most people are not feeling it. For example, where I work we had 2 people reporting a dude that they said stinked. The team leaders stood next to him for a few hours, they smelled nothing, they took him to question, he was actually wearing new and clean clothes and had taken a shower that day... it was proven that someone kept food at the desk in the end but those two that accused the guy did so because he was good at what he did and they were fearing he'd get a promotion before they did.
    3. Do they work with customers? Do they sit in a cramped office with others? If yes, think about benefits and problems associated with the person's body odor. If they work alone in their own office or just walk around and rarely meet anyone, it doesn't matter.
    4. Unlike what people say, their body odor has nothing to do with their job performance. Another example from my workplace, there was one guy who smelled a bit bad. Not something major, but still. Yet he was like one of the 3 best people on the whole department. Body odor does not have any relation to work performance unless it's really bad and you actually work with customers.

  17. #37
    The Unstoppable Force Belize's Avatar
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    I would light them on fire.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowraven View Post
    4. Unlike what people say, their body odor has nothing to do with their job performance. Another example from my workplace, there was one guy who smelled a bit bad. Not something major, but still. Yet he was like one of the 3 best people on the whole department. Body odor does not have any relation to work performance unless it's really bad and you actually work with customers.
    This might come as a surprise, but people are rarely bothered by their own body odors.

    He might work hard, but the smell sure as hell reduces the effectiveness of any of his workmates who need to stay near him. Unless, of course, they smell just as bad themselves.

  19. #39
    Well first thing I would do is approach them and tell them that this is an issue, you'd be surprised how many people will clean up their act when they're told. For all you know the guy/girl may never have noticed. If this was meet with refusal then yes I would

  20. #40
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    Have before, would again.

    Maintaining good hygiene, especially in customer-facing positions is not a polite suggestion, it's a necessity.

    Besides, if someone is that lazy about something as basic and important as hygiene, I can't trust them to put as much effort in to their job as I expect.

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