People charging pedigree prices for mongrel dogs

[bergmann620]

Please don't tell me you think this is a Doberman issue? (or a dog issue at all) LOL!!!
It's a myth, Don't be silly.

http://cavalierhealth.org/syringomyelia.htm

Syringomyelia (SM) is an extremely serious condition in which fluid-filled cavities develop within the spinal cord near the brain. It is also known as "neck scratcher's disease", because one of its common signs is scratching in the air near the neck.

The back half of the cavalier King Charles spaniel’s skull typically may be too small to accommodate all of the brain’s cerebellum, which may also be too large, and so it squeezes through the foramen magnum – the hole at the back of the skull – partially blocking the flow of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) down the spinal cord. The variable pressure created by the abnormal flow of CSF is believed to create the SM cavities – called syrinx – in the spinal cord.

SM is rare in most breeds but has become very widespread in cavalier King Charles spaniels and the Brussels Griffon (Griffon Bruxellois).

FYI, responsible Siberian Husky breeders do NOT breed dogs with blue eyes. Please feel free to look up the breed standard yourself, or maybe actully do some research on why blue eyes are a fault before breeding?

I did. Blue eyes are included. If you look up almost any AKC or otherwise registered breeder, they're everywhere.

[Deleted]

Do you really think I would put a puppy through cropping if it was so terrible? It's not.

There is a reason it's banned in more of the world than not, and it's not because "it's not terrible". Cling to whatever justification you want, it's still a disgusting practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croppin...tus_by_country

[Laraven]

There is a reason it's banned in more of the world than not, and it's not because "it's not terrible". Cling to whatever justification you want, it's still a disgusting practice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croppin...tus_by_country

Again, it's not banned here. And I will follow the breed standard for my working dogs until it is changed to allow me to do otherwise. I really hope you have some experience in the matter to backup your claims, because I have tons, years even...And none of my pups have had any issues with cropping. My only concern ever is the anesthesia. But this is a risk taken when having your dog spayed/neutered as well. Compared to trimming a small piece of the ear, Spaying is a very invasive major surgery that is also not necessary. Yes, it does have benefits, but so does cropping.

Will cropping be banned in the US? Prob not, but if so I couldn't care less. It would mean much less work for me. Until then, I will follow the rules and regulations for my breed.

[Maltah]

line breeding...

I mentioned before that the distance between relations was an important factor. While you may not "inbreed", it is still done in show dogs, and is very common in some breeds. Rare breeds in particular have little diversity. Some countries ban breeding relatives that are too closely related altogether.
We could argue the ethics of it, but to say it absolutely isn't done is just plain wrong. There are breeders who admit it, and think it's an important part of the breeding.

[TrumpIsPresident]

I've always had to opinion that there is no need to pay for an animal when shelters are packed to the brim with ones you can take home practically for free.

[Kellhound]

Again, it's not banned here. And I will follow the breed standard for my working dogs until it is changed to allow me to do otherwise. I really hope you have some experience in the matter to backup your claims, because I have tons, years even...And none of my pups have had any issues with cropping. My only concern ever is the anesthesia. But this is a risk taken when having your dog spayed/neutered as well. Compared to trimming a small piece of the ear, Spaying is a very invasive major surgery that is also not necessary. Yes, it does have benefits, but so does cropping.

Will cropping be banned in the US? Prob not, but if so I couldn't care less. It would mean much less work for me. Until then, I will follow the rules and regulations for my breed.

Tail cropping makes far more sense for a field dog than ear cropping.

[Laraven]

Tail cropping makes far more sense for a field dog than ear cropping.

Depending on the work it's doing. All hunting dogs should have the tails docked. Being from Maine where hunting is a big part of our lives, I have seen so many dogs come in the clinic after hours of hunting with severe damage to the tails done by brush that they had to be amputated anyways. But as an older dog this is a major surgery, and could of been done much easier@3 days of age with out adding the extra risk of being put under anesthesia and with no pain. (as the nerves are not yet present at this young age.)

For the Working Dobermans docked tails and cropped ears have been historically very functional. Docking and cropping is not simply cosmetic. It serves a function and can prevent problems down the road. To not dock a tail can lead to severe injury in this breed due to the dobes very short coat that leaves the long thin tail unprotected. Ever seen a high drive dobe when it's excited to work? Their tail nubs go crazy!



Docking the tail of a Doberman can prevent injury and accidents that can cause bruising, hematomas, gangrene, fractures of the vertebra which requires major surgery and infection due to loss of hair and tissue. I believe it is ESSENTIAL to dock a Doberman's tail.

Ear cropping has also been proven to be functional. There are a few reasons to crop ears which are related to function, not cosmetics. First off, a cropped ear is harder to hold onto. Doberman's were originally bred to be a protection breed. Cropped ears gave them an advantage. Secondly, Dobermans being used for search and rescue or protection that have cropped ears have an advantage when it comes to sound localization. Ear cropping has also been shown to reduce the occurrence of hematomas and ear infections.

[lockedout]

Purposely breeding mutts is beyond unethical. But in the case of an accidental litter, the amount asked by the owner can and should be upwards of a few hundred dollars.

Here is my personal breakdown costs of having a normal healthy litter of 6 doberman pups.

Dam's vet care before breeding ( Brucellosis test and check up) $200
VetGen/OFA health clearances for heart and hips $300
Stud fee: $1500-2000
Travel/hotel expenses to the stud $300
Dam vet care to confirm pregnancy via xray $200
Whelping box and supplies: heating pads, cloths, exc. $300
Milk replacer, bottles and vita drops $45
Tails/dew claws removed @ 3 days of age $400
AKC registration and pedigree (x6) $150
bedding such a ceder chips for 12 weeks $100
toys and collars $50
Puppy weaning food (from week 5-7) $40
Puppy kibble $90
Ear cropping (@7 weeks) $2400
vaccinations/worming and well puppy check with vet (@7 weeks) $230
Ad's and website (yearly fee) $70
____________
$6,875.00

In raising a healthy litter there is no cutting corners. This amount has nothing to do with the time and labor that is also put in to raises the litter.

You're getting ripped off royally. Cropped ears where I go is 200 bucks lol.

[Laraven]

You're getting ripped off royally. Cropped ears where I go is 200 bucks lol.

Yeah? Are you on he East Coast by chance? I travel to Mass from Maine and it use to be about $200 per pup a couple years ago. But he went up. He does include all aftercare and ear postings in that price. Not that I need his help posting I'm pro with the tampons now, but I guess that is good for others. But yeah it's about $400 each now.

[bergmann620]

And purposely breeding mongrels is just not responsible no matter what your reasons are.

Because Dobermans walked off Noah's Ark.

[Laraven]

Because Dobermans walked off Noah's Ark.

No idea how to respond to this, sorry.

[Techno-Druid]

From what I can find, the only time you can crossbreed dogs and really get away with it as a breed is if you crossbreed two dogs with a pedigree and those dogs are crossbred and their breeding well documented (which is how the Cesky terrier came to be). Although you have to also create a kennel association and a breed standard.

Sealyham Terrier



+

Scottish Terrier



=

Cesky Terrier



However, if it doesn't fit any of those qualifications it's pretty much a mutt, but that doesn't necessarily mean mutts are bad dogs.

[bergmann620]

No idea how to respond to this, sorry.

How do you think the currently existing breeds came to be? How do you think new breeds come to be? Do they simply spring forth, wholly formed, from the earth? Or do people cross-breed existing types seeking to bring out specific traits?

[Techno-Druid]

How do you think the currently existing breeds came to be? How do you think new breeds come to be? Do they simply spring forth, wholly formed, from the earth? Or do people cross-breed existing types seeking to bring out specific traits?

Your indeed correct. There are a few ways breeds do arise, one is strictly selective bred (which takes the second longest), natural selection or landrace (which takes the longest) and selectively crossing breeds for specific traits. However our definitions of breeds I somewhat vague and specific at the same time, the dogs need breeds standards and a foundation stock before becoming a breed. To enter a dog into a National Kennel Association, the dog has to have pedigree.