So MUTILATION is back!

[Deleted]

As a 10/10 M Rogue I agree to this, you can even go Sub for Flamebender if wolves are no longer an issue, because they die too fast for Combat to be worth it anyway :'(

And Subtelty on Hans & Franz is actually amazing for those wondering (tried last night), as long as you can position for Backstabs during Smart Stamps

[Kaite]

Yeah, I'm planning on going Sub for Flamebender when my group can handle wolves without me, but it's still pretty close. Progression-wise, I would say play Combat because the wolves are an actual objective and not just padding targets like Beastlord or Thogar adds.

[Spazzrogue]

lol sorry to burst ur bubble but sub is just as easy as combat and assassin, it is just as mindless as the other 2, it just has a multistrike rng factor oh and u have to be behind the boss...... what melee dps isnt already behind the boss lol. i wouldnt call getting rng multistrikes a skill factor haha

[Biomega]

lol sorry to burst ur bubble but sub is just as easy as combat and assassin, it is just as mindless as the other 2, it just has a multistrike rng factor oh and u have to be behind the boss...... what melee dps isnt already behind the boss lol. i wouldnt call getting rng multistrikes a skill factor haha

Uh, what? Sub has lots of abilities to juggle correctly, and while it may not be HARD per se and in a vacuum, it is undoubtedly more complex than Combat with its 2 use-on-cooldown skills.

I don't get why the issue of complexity is such a big deal for some people. They seem to think that having a harder rotation somehow makes them something better, or whatever. It's really puzzling. I get that many people like an engaging rotation with things to look out for, but that's basically just personal preference. The whole "lol it's not hard" vs. "sub so skillz" drivel I just cannot understand.

[MjH]

Uh, what? Sub has lots of abilities to juggle correctly, and while it may not be HARD per se and in a vacuum, it is undoubtedly more complex than Combat with its 2 use-on-cooldown skills.

I don't get why the issue of complexity is such a big deal for some people. They seem to think that having a harder rotation somehow makes them something better, or whatever. It's really puzzling. I get that many people like an engaging rotation with things to look out for, but that's basically just personal preference. The whole "lol it's not hard" vs. "sub so skillz" drivel I just cannot understand.

Exactly the sub "skill cap" has always been used in reference to pvp due to the pvp nature of the spec. Now every "amazing" bleeding edge mythic gladiator raider sub rogue has come out of the woodwork and throws it around to stroke the epeen. Or act like playing sub is a right of passage to being a "good" pve rogue. Hell the same goes for pvp right now you got the constant combat so mongo blah blah crap.

Short term memory a few patches ago all the pve sub rogues were crying about the "complex" and "hard" rotation give me a break lol. Play what you enjoy and play it to the utmost potential that you can regardless of spec. Fun is relative get over it.

[SynergyDarkstar]

Combat has always worked best for PvE, its also far more interesting and more fun to play in PvE than Assass.

Subjective and therefore worthless feedback. If combat's one button SS spamfest is more fun to you, so be it, but to imply that everyone feels like that is silly.

And TBH, Blizz has tried to make Assassination more intricate with the addition of Enhanced Envenom; they just didn't go far enough. If you had to plan more around squeezing as many CP builders as possible into a narrower (read: lower uptime) Envenom window, rather than having the Envenom buff up almost all the time (which seems to have been the initial plan) it would fit the theme and require more care in your playstyle. What we have now is by no means perfect, but it's not the completely poorly designed trash spec you make it out to be.

And keep in mind, Assassination has the most complex AoE rotation in the entire game. You want to talk about complexity not being rewarded? :P

[Verko]

I actually completely agree assassination does have a very complicated aoe "rotation", and most definitely does not get rewarded. I have played all classes at 100 to an extent, except hunter. Assassin's AOE when done properly feels like quite the achievement in comparison to a lot of classes, if only the numbers reflected that. If i had it my way they would increase the damage of Rupture and maybe crimson a little. this wouldn't affect ST too much but would reward those of us who can maintain Rupture on 3 targets while goin ham.

[Deleted]

Subjective and therefore worthless feedback. If combat's one button SS spamfest is more fun to you, so be it, but to imply that everyone feels like that is silly.

And TBH, Blizz has tried to make Assassination more intricate with the addition of Enhanced Envenom; they just didn't go far enough. If you had to plan more around squeezing as many CP builders as possible into a narrower (read: lower uptime) Envenom window, rather than having the Envenom buff up almost all the time (which seems to have been the initial plan) it would fit the theme and require more care in your playstyle. What we have now is by no means perfect, but it's not the completely poorly designed trash spec you make it out to be.

And keep in mind, Assassination has the most complex AoE rotation in the entire game. You want to talk about complexity not being rewarded? :P

I fully agree with you !
Furthermore, historically, Find Weakness was introduced in 2.x... in the Assassination spec and its behavior was exactly the behavior of Enhanced Envenom :
http://www.wowprovider.com/Old.aspx?talent=2438606_4

Blizzard should go this way instead of flat buffing Mutilate or Envenom.
Enhanced Envenom should be buffed instead and it would mechanically also buff Dispatch, I would even extend its effect to Envenom itself...

I would finally buff the Envenom buff to get poisons always proc during the buff. This would better reward the highest Envenom uptimes and partially address our AOE weakness.

[Eazy]

Every spec should do almost the same dmg and everyone would be happy.

But I'm wondering if people would still play sub because it's "fun to play" and not "as boring as assassination".

[Rosvall]

Blizzard should go this way instead of flat buffing Mutilate or Envenom.
Enhanced Envenom should be buffed instead and it would mechanically also buff Dispatch, I would even extend its effect to Envenom itself...

I would finally buff the Envenom buff to get poisons always proc during the buff. This would better reward the highest Envenom uptimes and partially address our AOE weakness.

Interesting, since I would impose the pure opposite in order to add depth into the spec. I would say scrap envenom buffing poisons. Reduce the duration of envenom and increase the Mutilate/Dispatch damage done during envenom. Something like half the envenom buff and your mutilates/dispatch during this time is nature damage as well as deals 80%+Mastery increased damage.

This will lead to a lower envenom uptime, making it more important to make sure you land your specials during the envenom window. Maybe even timing together with trinkets/weapon procs would be a thing again.

[SynergyDarkstar]

Interesting, since I would impose the pure opposite in order to add depth into the spec. I would say scrap envenom buffing poisons. Reduce the duration of envenom and increase the Mutilate/Dispatch damage done during envenom. Something like half the envenom buff and your mutilates/dispatch during this time is nature damage as well as deals 80%+Mastery increased damage.

This will lead to a lower envenom uptime, making it more important to make sure you land your specials during the envenom window. Maybe even timing together with trinkets/weapon procs would be a thing again.

I like this plan better; having our builders switch to Nature damage would make it feel more poison-y as opposed to having the poisons of the poisoner spec be completely passive.

I'm not sure I like reducing the buff duration though. It's only 6 seconds as it is. Reducing it to 3 would only minimize the impact of pooling; you'd barely need to pool at all to take advantage of a 3-second window. Honestly 5-6 seconds is about right for rewarding pooling near max energy w/o wasting any GCDs over the buff period. The problem is that, as we see on Live, Envenom is cast so often that the wider window no longer encourages careful play.

What might work instead (if we're talking a slight rework) would be to have a short-CD cooldown-ish ability that triggers the Envenom buff. Something that would be powerful enough that we play by making sure we have the resources available to take advantage of it when it's up and then getting to briefly go HAM. Maybe something like a 2-charge 30s CD ability that lasts for 5 seconds?

[Deleted]

I never knew Mutilation went. Been killing meters since day 1.

[Shyrshadi]

If they only wanted to improve the damage from mut they could just make the base poison damage higher. Sadly they aren't particularly looking to change game play between expansions.

The buffs the spec is receiving will certainly help the class but it won't be enough to keep up with sub or combat for st and unless there is another twins fight I don't see it getting much use.

[Farseer]

I never knew Mutilation went. Been killing meters since day 1.

I think either everyone here is part of the cutting edge Mythic scene where nobody plays Assassination, or only looks at sims and logs.