Help us on Heroic Blackhand

[Halbrium]

We made some changes and wiped at ....


.1%

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...QPCrG#fight=22


Should have the kill on our next raid!

Feel free to give us input on these new logs! Would love to help our members improve even more!

[base33]

A lot of overhead smash deaths.. Remember you only need 5-6 people to soak the smash.. we usually just send melee and hunters.. that leaves range and healers the ability to free cast.

Also, your holy priest is under preforming.. and using the healing wrong rotation. have him/her look over logs.. less binding heals & more renews will save mana and increase healing overall.

[Caruktna]

We made some changes and wiped at ....


.1%

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...QPCrG#fight=22


Should have the kill on our next raid!

Feel free to give us input on these new logs! Would love to help our members improve even more!

Clean up phase 3, lets mark what happened:

First smash was good

(4:35) Pally and priest almost blew themselves.

(5:00) Did that hunter fell of the plataform?

(5:10) Second smash: 2 melee didnt soaked it (killing hunter and almost a rogue). Hunter was with low health for a long time.

(5:15) Tank isnt taking the boss far enough for mines. If you have debuff from mines, you will get more dmg from smash, and if you are allready low, you will die.

(5:20) One Priest killed your pally with marks. You shouldnt line up arrows.

(5:25) People are runing to the wrong places with the mines. They should go left/behind the boss... not into the smash slag (and die).

(5:40) Priest got another priest + pally impaled. Mage killed rogue with impale, and hit one tank... need to move the marks correctly away from people (and people need to get away if possible)

(5:45) Another hunter dies, after smash got no heals aparently.

(5:50) Druid died slowly with mine.

(6:05) Shamag got thrown into slag, and mage died by an impaled tick after iceblock. One of them got the tank to get a 2nd stack of impaled.

**At this point, half the raid is dead, you have 2 tanks, 3 healers, 4 dps... Blackhand was at 3%, so it could have been done**

(6:08) Bad taunt, made the tank to eat the Smash and die. That makes the next smash to comes almost immediatly. Maybe a sacrifice?

(6:15) Tank has 2 stacks of impaled + mine + massive smash. He is dead. Maybe the other tank would have a chance at that point, or maybe the smash should have been soaked.

(6:17) Pally splashed priest with mine.

(6:20) Healer commited suicide walking to the lava to drop mine.

Then it all goes down by its own weight...

Maybe if any one of this things didnt happen, you would have killed the boss.

[Radish Spirit]

A lot of overhead smash deaths.. Remember you only need 5-6 people to soak the smash..

I'm not sure how having less people soak would decrease deaths. The damage is the same regardless; having less soak it just means more per person. I would think that would probably result in more deaths in the long run.

[testsubjectzz]

the only ones that don't soak are the ones that have the mark and bomb debuff

[Deja Thoris]

(4:35) Pally and priest almost blew themselves.

Laughed hard

[Halbrium]

I'm not sure how having less people soak would decrease deaths. The damage is the same regardless; having less soak it just means more per person. I would think that would probably result in more deaths in the long run.

Doesn't it decrease dps and hps?

[Adramelch]

Doesn't it decrease dps and hps?

Exactly. After a point, adding more people is detrimental as a whole. If it deals let's say a flat 600k damage, having 6 players in it means 100k per player, while having 8 means 75k per player. Let's assume that these extra 2 people are ranged dpsers that do about 35-40k dps at this phase (lust, cds etc), you lose about 4 seconds uptime on the boss per smash and you get 4 smashes (usually it's 5 but I haven't done it in "progression-mode" in a while so can't remember, that's about 600-700k damage lost right there. And that's just with two additional players. Make it more and you'll start seeing that it's not a good decision to have everyone there in the end.

[Caruktna]

Exactly. After a point, adding more people is detrimental as a whole. If it deals let's say a flat 600k damage, having 6 players in it means 100k per player, while having 8 means 75k per player. Let's assume that these extra 2 people are ranged dpsers that do about 35-40k dps at this phase (lust, cds etc), you lose about 4 seconds uptime on the boss per smash and you get 4 smashes (usually it's 5 but I haven't done it in "progression-mode" in a while so can't remember, that's about 600-700k damage lost right there. And that's just with two additional players. Make it more and you'll start seeing that it's not a good decision to have everyone there in the end.

Exactly. and the people who are assing to it, must commit to it.

[base33]

I'm not sure how having less people soak would decrease deaths. The damage is the same regardless; having less soak it just means more per person. I would think that would probably result in more deaths in the long run.

Exactly. After a point, adding more people is detrimental as a whole. If it deals let's say a flat 600k damage, having 6 players in it means 100k per player, while having 8 means 75k per player. Let's assume that these extra 2 people are ranged dpsers that do about 35-40k dps at this phase (lust, cds etc), you lose about 4 seconds uptime on the boss per smash and you get 4 smashes (usually it's 5 but I haven't done it in "progression-mode" in a while so can't remember, that's about 600-700k damage lost right there. And that's just with two additional players. Make it more and you'll start seeing that it's not a good decision to have everyone there in the end.

Exactly Adramelch,

no matter how many ppl soak its the same amount of damage that needs to be healed up. If you let your healers and casters free cast in the middle of the room the last phase is a joke. Assuming they do everything else right. & Assuming your melee doesn't get smashed off the platform after one smash.

[Caruktna]

We all seem to agree now... have you guys downed him yet?

Hope you do!

[Radish Spirit]

Exactly. After a point, adding more people is detrimental as a whole. If it deals let's say a flat 600k damage, having 6 players in it means 100k per player, while having 8 means 75k per player. Let's assume that these extra 2 people are ranged dpsers that do about 35-40k dps at this phase (lust, cds etc), you lose about 4 seconds uptime on the boss per smash and you get 4 smashes (usually it's 5 but I haven't done it in "progression-mode" in a while so can't remember, that's about 600-700k damage lost right there. And that's just with two additional players. Make it more and you'll start seeing that it's not a good decision to have everyone there in the end.

Going to go ahead and disagree.

For one, nothing about what you said prevents deaths. It might result in a faster kill, but the OP is losing people early in the phase so that's not going to save anyone's life. Extra damage doesn't matter if, as OP is, you're losing people to smash. 600k DPS from someone who doesn't share the smash doesn't make up for a dead person.

Secondly, we lusted in P2 and had every single person in our raid take the smash and still killed the boss with 30% of the platform available.

With the nerfs to health, P3 isn't really a HUGE DPS race anymore the way it used to be. It's a survival game. As long as you can stay alive, the boss will die - and the best way to stay alive is to minimize damage and the best way to do that is to get as many people as possible smashed.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly Adramelch,

no matter how many ppl soak its the same amount of damage that needs to be healed up.

But people are dying to it in OPs logs. You can't heal up dead people...

People are going to be low from Impales and incidental damages, so sharing the smash amongst 5 people is a hell of a lot more likely to result in deaths than sharing it amost 8 or 10.

[Halbrium]

Going to go ahead and disagree.

For one, nothing about what you said prevents deaths. It might result in a faster kill, but the OP is losing people early in the phase so that's not going to save anyone's life. Extra damage doesn't matter if, as OP is, you're losing people to smash. 600k DPS from someone who doesn't share the smash doesn't make up for a dead person.

Secondly, we lusted in P2 and had every single person in our raid take the smash and still killed the boss with 30% of the platform available.

With the nerfs to health, P3 isn't really a HUGE DPS race anymore the way it used to be. It's a survival game. As long as you can stay alive, the boss will die - and the best way to stay alive is to minimize damage and the best way to do that is to get as many people as possible smashed.

- - - Updated - - -



But people are dying to it in OPs logs. You can't heal up dead people...

People are going to be low from Impales and incidental damages, so sharing the smash amongst 5 people is a hell of a lot more likely to result in deaths than sharing it amost 8 or 10.

Probably some wisdom in what you said here.

That said we killed him last night!

Thanks everyone for your valuable input.

[base33]

congrats .

Did you have the whole group soak smash?

[Kolvarg]

We made some changes and wiped at .... .1%
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...QPCrG#fight=22
Should have the kill on our next raid!!

I feel your pain, my group had a 20k hp wipe last week, before killing him this week. Not even kidding:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...2bN3X#fight=14

But aye, you should get him next week. After you're done with P1 and start getting smooth on P2, it's just a matter of time before enough players start surviving long enough to get a kill.

Didn't really check the logs, but setting specific players to use cooldowns on each smash can help with survival (priest aoe barrier, dk aoe shield thingie, 1 fox after each smash, healing cooldowns, etc). Also important to make sure players who are targeted by bombs (and thus take increased damage from debuff) shouldn't be eating the smash

Just realized you killed him, grats! ^^