Steam Workshop goes Market

[unholytestament]

Can't read before clicking the link properly now can i?

You do realize we are pointing out how stupid it was for you to mouth off about a video without even bothering to click on it, right?

I guess you did not even bother to check out what was in that video he linked, it´s TB talking to the owner of the nexus and the modder of SMIM mod.

So good for you on your ignorance.

Well since you were flat out wrong I guess in the future you should stop concerning yourself with odds and instead just take the couple of seconds to click on the link and read the video description.

[Acidbaron]

You do realize we are pointing out how stupid it was for you to mouth off about a video without even bothering to click on it, right?

Not really since i don't really like most of the videos from youtube commenters and i'm not a particular fan of TB either, so now that finally once in a full moon it actually has a decent discussion going with relevant people and not just speculation. i was wrong what doesn't happen all that often.

I found my link to be more interesting about having a long written post about two mod creators one pro and one contra.

[Kelimbror]

That's rather dramatic and emotive language you're using there. Charging for a product or service that was previously free, doesn't have to equate to 'screwing people over' or 'raking them over the coals'.

The revenue from a toll bridge goes into further roading projects and maintenance and what-not, all things that could be considered positive for a community. In the same way, the $$$ that modders earn can give them the opportunity to invest more time and effort into their creations. Not every modder, sure. But for the most exceptional, top-tier, modders I don't think it's unreasonable.

Sorry, I'm not a government apologist. I guess you want to raise taxes too? The only thing dramatic is trying to patronize legitimate issues. You used a bad metaphor, one that highlights exactly why this is crap. Good on you.

[Poppincaps]

True. But to reiterate: how many of the tens of thousands of mods - after three and a half years - currently on the nexus, are comparable to the official Bethesda expnsions? None. Absolutely none, and the closest- by several miles - is Falskaar.

Even after after three and a half years, out of tens of thousands.

Even if people were willing to get that twenty thousand dollars of side cash, there'd be no more than a half dozen at THE MOST. There is no way there'd be more. No way. Even Dark One and the creator of SMIM, two veteran modders and esteemed members of the modding community concur.

The official expansions have teams for dozens or maybe even hundreds working on them. Of course mods aren't going to be able to reach that quality. Plus the developers have intimate knowledge of the code and the engine, so they probably won't spend as much time tinkering around.

The question isn't whether we're going to get mods that are comparable to expansions but whether we'll get better mods. Also, Bethesda is kinda an exception since their DLCs generally have good amount of content as well as being high quality. A lot of DLC isn't at that quality. But Bethesda DLCs usually go for 15-20 bucks. A mod like Falskaar could defiinitely go for 5 or even 10 dollars and do well.

Although I'm confused about the half dozen part. Do you mean only half a dozen would make that much money? I don't disagree, but like I said I don't think it would be a viable job unless a modding team got hired by Bethesda or whatever to make some official mods. I'd appreciate it if you could clarify that point for me.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Legendary modder Gopher will be interviewed by TB on the Co-optional this Saturday night about the paid modding saga, (this coming after Darkone and SMIM's interviews on Tuesday).

[Triptych]

Sorry, I'm not a government apologist. I guess you want to raise taxes too? The only thing dramatic is trying to patronize legitimate issues. You used a bad metaphor, one that highlights exactly why this is crap. Good on you.

Well, what exactly is it that's getting your panties all bunched up over this issue? I figured that it might be the fact that something which used to be free was going to become not always free, and that it was the process of Change which was frightening and outraging the internet to such a degree. Which is why I chose the example of a new toll bridge, to show that these things usually blow over.

But maybe it's not Change at all? Maybe there's something fundamentally wrong with rewarding a modder for his/her efforts?

When Blizzard or Paradox or Ubisoft charge for their products, do you feel like they're "screwing you over" and "raking you over the coals" (your words, not mine)? Should their stuff also be free? Or is that OK? It's OK for a corporate to charge a fee for a product, but not OK for the little guy?

[Kelimbror]

When Blizzard or Paradox or Ubisoft charge for their products, do you feel like they're "screwing you over" and "raking you over the coals" (your words, not mine)? Should their stuff also be free? Or is that OK? It's OK for a corporate to charge a fee for a product, but not OK for the little guy?

For what amounts to DLC? I don't really approve of anyone charging for that. It should be included in the base game. Because that's what 99% of these mods are. Now if you are referring to full blown games that were developed by companies? Hell yeah they can charge for it...that's pretty much how the video game industry works. Thank you for proving my points even better than I could.

[Halicia]

When Blizzard or Paradox or Ubisoft charge for their products, do you feel like they're "screwing you over" and "raking you over the coals" (your words, not mine)? Should their stuff also be free? Or is that OK? It's OK for a corporate to charge a fee for a product, but not OK for the little guy?

Or more appropriately...

If someone downloads a mod and streams it to viewers, its 'OK' for them to make an income from it....

but the person that actually MADE THE MOD, isn't entitled to a revenue stream ?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Or more appropriately...

If someone downloads a mod and streams it to viewers, its 'OK' for them to make an income from it....

but the person that actually MADE THE MOD, isn't entitled to a revenue stream ?

Do video game companies charge you to stream their games?

Yes. Nintendo does so. Does that mean everyone will?

[Kelimbror]

Or more appropriately...

If someone downloads a mod and streams it to viewers, its 'OK' for them to make an income from it....

but the person that actually MADE THE MOD, isn't entitled to a revenue stream ?

Maybe the lesson to be learned here is if you want to make money as an independent business owner you should go into streaming instead of making mods, yeah? But no, no....it's totally the system.

Look. Here's the thing. This is the whole reason I said the argument should be focused on how this perverts modding as we've known it for all these years and not on anyone's 'rights'. Modding has always been passion driven, community involved, mostly free and widely utilized. This is what 'modding' is all about. If someone wants to make money programming aspects of a game, they need just to bite the bullet and make a game.

That's what people pay money for and rightly so. With the wide variety of platforms to publish and indie games on a surge, if that's what people actually want they need to do that instead of being lazy and using a large company's assets to entirely structure their work. Don't get me wrong, modding to the degree that something like Falskaar became is mind blowing and requires huge talent. That's why the guy now works for a game company. But most mods are just someone who took an online programming course, made something useful, and that's that.

We need to quit glorifying modding and putting it on a pedestal like it is actually making a game. Most of it isn't even close.

[Triptych]

For what amounts to DLC? I don't really approve of anyone charging for that. It should be included in the base game. Because that's what 99% of these mods are. Now if you are referring to full blown games that were developed by companies? Hell yeah they can charge for it...that's pretty much how the video game industry works. Thank you for proving my points even better than I could.

Alright, thank you for making that clear.

I certainly don't agree with your point of view --- that 99% of DLC or fan-made content has no intrinsic value, and that owners of the original game are entitled to it for free. But I know better than to try and persuade you differently.

I just hope that the mod-makers themselves are not discouraged by the attitudes that have been displayed this past week.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

TB's interview with Gopher