Versatility pieces and Ele

[Seezer]

So my past 3 bonus rolls were for some of what I thought were garbage mythic pieces. The off-hand off of Oregorger, the bracers off of Darmac, and the ring off of Darmac. I was replacing Heroic Maidens bracers mastery/ms, Thogar off hand Haste/MS, and mythic Tectus ring Haste/MS.

Now, the bracers and ring had what I thought were the worst stat combinations possible. Crit/Vers. And the offhand worse than that with mastery/versatility. So I decided to sim. Turns out the 3 mythic pieces were around 1000 dps upgrade. I think nowadays we're so trained to only look at secondary stats on gear. And if it doesn't have your best secondary on it, we look at it like it's garbage. I see people constantly turn down 15 ilvl upgrades because they don't have their best secondary on it. But what we forget is int is twice as strong as our best secondary. And it's so easy to overlook that.

And another thing I found out in my sims, Versatility sim'd higher than mastery in all cases.

[Shamangeddon]

In the long run I suppose it doesn't matter much. But I still cringe a bit every time I see my multistrike drop a bit while versatility rises.

[ZerowGG]

Youll need to do thr sims for yourself to see but,

For me, Signet is bis for non aoe fights.

Pretty sure your heroic bis pieces are going to be slightly better than the versa mythic pieces.

Also there is no way versa is a better stat than mastery on any fight where you cast eq. So mast is still better.

[Seezer]

Youll need to do thr sims for yourself to see but,

For me, Signet is bis for non aoe fights.

Pretty sure your heroic bis pieces are going to be slightly better than the versa mythic pieces.

Also there is no way versa is a better stat than mastery on any fight where you cast eq. So mast is still better.

A 685 piece isn't beating a 700 piece. For anyone. It doesn't matter what gear you have. Int is the highest value'd stat by far. And even your worst stats have value.

[Gistwiki]

A 685 piece isn't beating a 700 piece. For anyone. It doesn't matter what gear you have. Int is the highest value'd stat by far. And even your worst stats have value.

Signet of the Crystalline barrage will be within 100 dps (it's right at around 50 for me) of Epicenter Loop or Uk'urogg's Corrupted Seal. It's enough that being WF or having a socket is enough to push it over the edge, and that swapping between the won't net a noticeable change in dps. There are other slots (bracers, neck, OH, and cloak come to mind) where it's close enough to be tipped by a socket.

Though in your case the differences seemed to be larger than what my sims have indicated for myself, which is odd because we're really not all that far apart in gear from the sounds of it.

[Seezer]

Signet of the Crystalline barrage will be within 100 dps (it's right at around 50 for me) of Epicenter Loop or Uk'urogg's Corrupted Seal. It's enough that being WF or having a socket is enough to push it over the edge, and that swapping between the won't net a noticeable change in dps. There are other slots (bracers, neck, OH, and cloak come to mind) where it's close enough to be tipped by a socket.

Though in your case the differences seemed to be larger than what my sims have indicated for myself, which is odd because we're really not all that far apart in gear from the sounds of it.

I don't see how that could be. My Signet is Mythic with a socket. I simmed with a +50 ms gem in it. My epicenter loop is regular 700 ilvl without a socket. My dps with signet is 44559. My dps with epicenter is 44768. Difference of 209 dps. So with a signet without a socket it's going to be even bigger. MS is is 4.52 dps for me. So that would be about another 200 dps. So without signet the difference between 685 signet and 700 loop would be 400 dps.

[Gistwiki]

I don't see how that could be. My Signet is Mythic with a socket. I simmed with a +50 ms gem in it. My epicenter loop is regular 700 ilvl without a socket. My dps with signet is 44559. My dps with epicenter is 44768. Difference of 209 dps. So with a signet without a socket it's going to be even bigger. MS is is 4.52 dps for me. So that would be about another 200 dps. So without signet the difference between 685 signet and 700 loop would be 400 dps.

That all seems rather odd to me because the last time I had simmed it for myself all 3 rings with no sockets were within 50 dps of one another, and Runescribed Gronncloak heroic with a socket was outperforming the Mythic Runefrenzy Greatcloak.

Weird >.>

Edit: How many iterations?

[Seezer]

That all seems rather odd to me because the last time I had simmed it for myself all 3 rings with no sockets were within 50 dps of one another, and Runescribed Gronncloak heroic with a socket was outperforming the Mythic Runefrenzy Greatcloak.

Weird >.>

Edit: How many iterations?

10,000 iterations

[ZerowGG]

Depends on your gear. I have almost 2k mastery. MS has a much higher value for me probably.

- - - Updated - - -

In my current gear, Multistrike is worth .77 to 1 int for me.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Keto/simple

Post your armory. Id be eager to check out some of your sims.

[Markooo]

Depends on your gear. I have almost 2k mastery. MS has a much higher value for me probably.

I think this is the main problem - Blizz hasn't created a lot of items that are perfect for us. Even with full BiS we end up with way too much mastery. I think it's a case of wanting us to feel less movement pain due to Molten Earth, but it's still frustrating.

OP is correct. Secondary stats were FARRRRR more important when we were doing 10 ilvl upgrades. Now that it's 15 ilvl, the INT increase is a no-brainer, and the only real simming you have to do is to find your off-piece. It frustrates me to no end to think that I've gone up ~10 ilvl in the past few weeks and I have less multi, less haste, and far more mastery, versatility and a little more crit. But, I still do more damage. So, that's why we do it.

[Seezer]

Depends on your gear. I have almost 2k mastery. MS has a much higher value for me probably.

- - - Updated - - -

In my current gear, Multistrike is worth .77 to 1 int for me.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...as/Keto/simple

Post your armory. Id be eager to check out some of your sims.

You're using normalized factors. Which is fine, but it's not the actual dps value per point. Your MS is at 5.39, and your Int is at 6.81. So int has 1.5 dps over MS per point. My MS is at 4.60. My int is at 6.58. So my int is almost 2 dps higher than MS per point. Replace your signet in the line with Epicenter. It's going to sim higher. My difference was 209 increase with epicenter loop. And that was with my mythic signet having a 50 MS gem in it. Without the gem, epicenter would have been around a 430 dps increase.

[ZerowGG]

It doesn't sim higher. Also they are normalized to a base 1. The ratios are still the same.

- - - Updated - - -

45273 single target with Signet
45176 single target with Epicenter.

[Seezer]

It doesn't sim higher. Also they are normalized to a base 1. The ratios are still the same.

- - - Updated - - -

45273 single target with Signet
45176 single target with Epicenter.

So I figured it out. Talents have a big impact. I'm using EM, UF, and SET. You're using EoE, PE, and EF. Here are the results with EM, UF, and SET and signet: 48291. Here are your results with EM, UF and SET with Epicenter: 48334

Not that big of a difference, but also I have blackhand trinket with darmac trink and you're using crit trink with darmac. So the conclusion must be that trinkets and talents can change the values enough

[Markooo]

So I figured it out. Talents have a big impact. I'm using EM, UF, and SET. You're using EoE, PE, and EF. Here are the results with EM, UF, and SET and signet: 48291. Here are your results with EM, UF and SET with Epicenter: 48334

Not that big of a difference, but also I have blackhand trinket with darmac trink and you're using crit trink with darmac. So the conclusion must be that trinkets and talents can change the values enough

So, the bottom line is that everyone will have different sims based on their own gear and spec. I wish more people would figure out the automation function of SimC. I do a full 27 confit talent comparison (60/90/100), then do any new/questionable gear with a gear comparison on the top few talent specs.

[Last Starfighter]

So, the bottom line is that everyone will have different sims based on their own gear and spec. I wish more people would figure out the automation function of SimC. I do a full 27 confit talent comparison (60/90/100), then do any new/questionable gear with a gear comparison on the top few talent specs.

So what is the automation function?

[ZerowGG]

http://pastebin.com/rxn7AD3K

Replace with your region / Server / Name.

[Markooo]

So what is the automation function?

I'm not a fan of people who don't look for things before asking where they are. It automatically runs multiple scenarios (like 27 talent configs) on its own. I'll hook you up this time.

Import > Automation in any recent SimC version.

Select "Talent Comparison." C+P your gear into the default gear. C+P the rotation from a standard Ele sim profile.

Use this in the big blank spot in the middle:

3331211 name=EM_UF_EF
3331212 name=EM_UF_SET
3331213 name=EM_UF_LM
3331221 name=EM_PE_EF
3331222 name=EM_PE_SET
3331223 name=EM_PE_LM
3331231 name=EM_EB_EF
3331232 name=EM_EB_SET
3331233 name=EM_EB_LM
3332211 name=AS_UF_EF
3332212 name=AS_UF_SET
3332213 name=AS_UF_LM
3332221 name=AS_PE_EF
3332222 name=AS_PE_SET
3332223 name=AS_PE_LM
3332231 name=AS_EB_EF
3332232 name=AS_EB_SET
3332233 name=AS_EB_LM
3333211 name=EoE_UF_EF
3333212 name=EoE_UF_SET
3333213 name=EoE_UF_LM
3333221 name=EoE_PE_EF
3333222 name=EoE_PE_SET
3333223 name=EoE_PE_LM
3333231 name=EoE_EB_EF
3333232 name=EoE_EB_SET
3333233 name=EoE_EB_LM

Hit Import.

Go to Options. I do sims for 4, 6, 8, 10 minute Patchwerk, light, and heavy movement 1 and 3 boss fights.

Then, lower your iterations from 25 to 10 (you should be using 25k normally). Save it by date, or with the info of the fight (1-LM-4min-talents, for ex) so you can reference them later.

I'll let you figure out the syntax for gear comparisons on your own. It's just as easy.