Warriors, the perfect class?

[Theed]

Warriors are one of the better classes right now. Arms has a variety of top tier comps (WLS, Turbo, TSG). I personaly think they are too easy to master. Sitting def stance all game makes them a very hard, actually one of the hardest targets to kill without having much of a downside compared to other classes. They should remove passive damage reduction abilites from pvp and move to active mitigation things like feint.

[Saberstrike]

The only reason warriors are popular right now is because alleged balancing around 3v3 means they always play with a healer, rendering their most major weakness obsolete.

Take a warrior's healer away and it becomes the most awful class imaginable.

Ironically it's greatest strength (hard, easy to apply cleave damage) is also it's greatest weakness (it's boring, and you can't change / buff warriors to give them proper utility because then they'd become inexcusably overpowered).

^ All that is in regards to arms. Gladiator is just bad, fury can really wreck some face but you gotta get some lucky crits. Overall, warriors are honestly middle of the pack because they're a one trick pony. It just so happens that in a meta where 9 out of 12 classes can afford free, endless healing aoe pressure becomes so valuable it brings warriors to the top, along with affliction locks.

[Deleted]

Ironically I also have a ret that I pvp with, enjoy playing it and have had alot of fun with. Espec out by myself in random BGs. It just doesnt compare to what the warrior can do to so many of the classes though. Can I go fight a frost mage by myself over there in a corner? probably not and its stupid to try. Can I be the centre point of a bg zerg thats takes bases and kills Fcs? absolutely. 2s, 3s, random skirmishs for the lol, random bgs just cos I enjoy spending time in them, RBGs, you name it I have done it on hunter ret and warrior.

I stand by my opinion that the warrior is the most overpowered of the 3, the easiest to play at a reasonable level and gives the best results for effort/hour.

[fylth]

I think the warrior is in the best spot it has ever been in. I seriously think they did a hell of a job. btw, I roll a rogue..

[Deleted]

Yes, warriors are perfect, I beat the shit out of them on all my alts. Blizzard, keep them perfect, please.

[Deleted]

Yes, warriors are perfect, I beat the shit out of them on all my alts. Blizzard, keep them perfect, please.

Your alts are all frostmages? btw got any tips on how to kill a frostmage on a war, cos honestly I struggle with that fight?

[Deleted]

Your alts are all frostmages? btw got any tips on how to kill a frostmage on a war, cos honestly I struggle with that fight?

My alts are dk, hunter, ret pala and ww monk (though it sucks at everything else). I never lose to warriors. Warriors are very self ineffective when they're not paired with a healer.

Btw, you beat hunters?! On my hunter I smoke warriors so bad it's more like rape, but then I'm using Posthaste and am hardly ever slowed unlike those noobs who use the webs talent, and then disengage and are still slowed and ready to be charged again.

[Ryanite]

My alts are dk, hunter, ret pala and ww monk (though it sucks at everything else). I never lose to warriors. Warriors are very self ineffective when they're not paired with a healer.

Btw, you beat hunters?! On my hunter I smoke warriors so bad it's more like rape, but then I'm using Posthaste and am hardly ever slowed unlike those noobs who use the webs talent, and then disengage and are still slowed and ready to be charged again.

You beat them so easily because most classes have more than they need to take out a warrior 1v1, yeah the games not built around 1v1 and I do want to encourage that a class like a hunter should be the perfect counter to a warrior but to as you put it "smoke warriors so bad it's more like rape" then they may just have a few too many abilities that help them out of a bad situation.

But you'd have to look at all classes overall in order to determine which would need appropriate nerfs where, instead of bringing the warrior up to the level of others, it'd be better for the game to bring everyone back a touch. Because atm I find it very hard to see any downside in something like a hunter, great mobility, damage, decent passive heal and utility with good defensives and now compared to warrior there is clear strength and clear weakness, strong damage, decent defence, ok mobility depending on terrain and poor self healing.

[Deleted]

My alts are dk, hunter, ret pala and ww monk (though it sucks at everything else). I never lose to warriors. Warriors are very self ineffective when they're not paired with a healer.

Btw, you beat hunters?! On my hunter I smoke warriors so bad it's more like rape, but then I'm using Posthaste and am hardly ever slowed unlike those noobs who use the webs talent, and then disengage and are still slowed and ready to be charged again.

Yeah I beat most hunters, but then I am a hunter and a pretty good one. On my hunter I will beat most warrs, but I won't take a warrior who really knows what hes doing and how to play a hunter. Theres a lot of nonsense spoken on the subject by alot of people who don't truely understand both classes. I'm surprised you beat wars on your dk and ret though. Are you kiting with your ret outside your cds? Cos that would probably do it, with hand of freedom keeping hamstring off you. I once lost to a dk who did something similar using chains and death coil to kite me.

[Theed]

PvP is not about 1v1, and has never been balanced around 1v1. In every competetive pvp environment you will have a healer on your side. Everything else is not valid in this discussion.

[MORGATH99]

the perfect class for me but not the perfect class . there should be more respect for warriors from blizzard they are the father of all melee classes

[Saberstrike]

In every competetive pvp environment you will have a healer on your side.

That statement is why we can't have nice things.

[Theed]

That statement is why we can't have nice things.

You mean nice and unique things like Mass Spell reflect, 100% fear immunity vs priests, and a mortal strike - healing effect (not unique, but very rare and powerful in the current meta)

If anything Warrior survivability WITH a healer is too good. That's why they reverted the defstance buff.

[Saberstrike]

I'm not talking about warriors, I'm talking about PvP in general. Healers are so out of whack that instead of an option they became a requirement that carries teams with players so bad you wonder how those people got to 100.

Which incidently also leads to warriors with all three exciting unique things they have left being highly represented, in spite of also being highly boring to play. I'm calling it right now, when (eh... let's be real. It's an 'if', not a 'when') resto druid gets nerfed the warrior population will also drop by 2/3rds.

[Deleted]

. I'm surprised you beat wars on your dk and ret though. Are you kiting with your ret outside your cds? Cos that would probably do it, with hand of freedom keeping hamstring off you. I once lost to a dk who did something similar using chains and death coil to kite me.

Yep. I can outdps warrs as frost and as unholy I just kite. And yeah, ret paladin pvp against melee is all about kiting, a ret who goes toe to toe with any melee is a bad one.

[Otaka]

The only reason warriors are popular right now is because alleged balancing around 3v3 means they always play with a healer, rendering their most major weakness obsolete.

Take a warrior's healer away and it becomes the most awful class imaginable.

Ironically it's greatest strength (hard, easy to apply cleave damage) is also it's greatest weakness (it's boring, and you can't change / buff warriors to give them proper utility because then they'd become inexcusably overpowered).

^ All that is in regards to arms. Gladiator is just bad, fury can really wreck some face but you gotta get some lucky crits. Overall, warriors are honestly middle of the pack because they're a one trick pony. It just so happens that in a meta where 9 out of 12 classes can afford free, endless healing aoe pressure becomes so valuable it brings warriors to the top, along with affliction locks.

Thats the whole point of a warrior and how its been ever since the game launched. Take a warriors healer away and they become awful.
Other classes dont have such weaknesses. The rest have something for every situation aka homogenization.

[Saberstrike]

I wouldn't say that. You could crunch people in duels all throughout vanilla -> wotlk, cata -> mop was a weird time but warriors could -still- duel and win against most classes.

Now it's literally impossible to win vs anything in a 1v1. Say all you like about 'not balanced around 1v1' but it's telling about how fun and viable the class really is when it has a hard time with it's historical 'prey' (aka: rogue, warlock, priest).

[Theed]

Thats the whole point of a warrior and how its been ever since the game launched. Take a warriors healer away and they become awful.
Other classes dont have such weaknesses. The rest have something for every situation aka homogenization.

Warrior is not lost without healer. Warriors can solo content, just not as good as some other classes like dk. Even 1v1 is possible, if you can't beat anyone in a duel you may be doing it wrong.

Again: World of Warcraft is a team / group game. It has been a team game since vanilla. I stopped dueling seriously after the release of cata. It became pointless after some specs/classes got way too many cds . Please don't take 1v1 as an indicator how strong a class is. You will NEVER get satisfied. There is no reward in 1v1, you get no titles, no conquest points, no gear. It would be stupid to balance around 1v1 and I promise you: Blizzard will never do it.

[Ryanite]

It seems people have derailed this into a chat about who can 1v1, my initial point is more about the class design of warriors, with clear strength and clear weakness over some of the more homogenized classes who seem to just have it all along with abilities that do not make sense thematically for said classes to have. Once mage invis sort of made sense when it shifted them into another realm, where they could no longer be seen or see anyone but now it's just a mini stealth. Rogues with a combo point heal, hunters with an immunity of blades deterring attacks? it just doesn't make sense. It is easier to balance a warrior as such because they are often considered a bare bones class but with a little thought blizzard could come up with clear strength and clear weakness for every class by pruning out some of the abilities that cross over classes. Pruning these abilities would actually create a greater void in 1v1 because it would make some classes the perfect counter to others but I believe a rock, paper scissors style model is actually healthy for competitive team game play.

The main trouble to something like this would be also considering PvE aspects of abilities. You wouldn't be able to use damage as a factor as it would impact PvE, maybe the way that damage is delivered but even then it'd still impact PvE.

For your class, what are some things you feel don't fit and some abilities that you would be ok with letting go to provide a better overall PvP experience?

As a feral druids I feel that Maim has really lost it's place, useful at times maybe but it's some sort of inbred gouge that I'd be happy to let go. Power shifting is much too strong of a root break, I'd say slap some sort of debuff cooldown on the root removal effect. Have burst , bleeds and healing as a feral's strengths and have defensive capability as it's weakness, more of just a toned down version of what it is now really. Feral is a tough one since a lot of it's healing, utility and even burst comes from the talent tree and removing a talent tree option means having to replace it with something else.

[Deleted]

Or just put a 5 sec cd on shapeshifting.