Healing: The counterpoint of any skill requirement of World of Warcraft PvP.

[Deleted]

I never said that or even implied it. Only pointed out that your first post (and this one too I guess) just reek of the type of player that thinks they're way better than they really are.

If you dont understand my first reaction than you are just not on any decent level in pvp,
I'm not trying to offend anyone but that is just a fact.
People making threads stating how OP and braindead healing is have no idea what is going on.

I might have been brute in the manner, but I'm just trying to make it very very clear.

[Mundayz]

The Balance between healing and damage is one that is difficult. Actually, that's incorrect. It is factually EASY to do if you take the merest seconds of time out of your day and think.

Healing in World of Warcraft is not one they took those seconds to think about. And because of that, it runs directly ramshod over every other idea of tactical ability in World of Warcraft and why the PvP in this game is so ruined and without any requirement for talent outside of "Get a healer".

Many of you would think this hyperbole. But have you never seen a BG run entirely on two healers being impossible to kill on the enemy team? Or a Arena game where it is decided entirely by the healer.

This would not be a bad thing, if the support was with it's risks, as all roles and tactics, it should be about weighing the costs with said risks. Healers have no risks. Because they are so strong in relation to damage, even when you control them, interrupt them, hold them down. They still have those few skills designed to bounce back up to 100%.

A revision of this would make more sense. To one where the Healer isn't an unstoppable beacon that controls everything that will ever happen and the entire games focus on taking down.

Shifting more to a support role akin to the medic from TF2, where being a great team-changing tool comes at the cost of personal weakness. The action of this is beautifully twofold. One, it makes Healers less important as direct players in the field, but more important and indeed viable as targets beyond a supreme three man to one ratio requirement. Second, it makes Peeling and defensive CC alot more useful, so the players OTHER than the Healer can decide a fight by doing more than just "Handle the enemy healer"

In short; Healers need a supreme reduction in their PvP surviability. I think this should be done by heals being less effective when self cast Or by a vast reduction in defensive cooldowns for healers, making them more worth time on beating at.

Can I ask, what is your pvp experience?

[Deleted]

The HPS requirement is exactly the same as the dps. If I heal less then I get damage, I die. If I heal more, nothing happens because my health is full. And yeah, healers (given the same skill level) are capable of healing more then the damage of a single dps, because the game is balanced for 3v3. I think about 4 different people said this to you and you still haven't replied to it in any other way then to say "factually incorrect", which it isn't.

But honestly, I think that biggischkris is kinda right - you won't consider other opinions even for one second and instead choose to disregard any evidence or opinions that don't fit into your theory. I guess you're a theology student? It would fit.

When someone presents actual evidence that healing is in any way more difficult and not bloated so much it actively destroys any skill required in the game to perform, then maybe I'll change my opinion.

Except nobody has presented that and merely offered stupid opinions from most likely healers.

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I never said that or even implied it. Only pointed out that your first post (and this one too I guess) just reek of the type of player that thinks they're way better than they really are.

What is all healers in existence?

Always the easier PvE option, always the easier PvP option.

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Can I ask, what is your pvp experience?

Ah, the classic "WELL U SUCK" argument.

Let's keep this clinical without going into typical healer passive aggresiveness shall we?

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If you dont understand my first reaction than you are just not on any decent level in pvp,
I'm not trying to offend anyone but that is just a fact.
People making threads stating how OP and braindead healing is have no idea what is going on.

I might have been brute in the manner, but I'm just trying to make it very very clear.

You proved how braindead healing is though, thank you.

[ItachiZaku]

And edit: Just because you don't see the help from the DPS partners in videos doesn't mean it isn't there.

Even in random BGs, I'm peeling my heals, as I know I have personally won tons of BGs on my healers, that's a fact. I protect them as best I can. Sometimes, it goes very unnoticed (obviously, in a random BG, they won't notice as much).

A good DPS can put a lot of pressure on a healer. It is a team effort, though.

[Deleted]

Even in random BGs, I'm peeling my heals, as I know I have personally won tons of BGs on my healers, that's a fact. I protect them as best I can. Sometimes, it goes very unnoticed (obviously, in a random BG, they won't notice as much).

A good DPS can put a lot of pressure on a healer. It is a team effort, though.

It's a team effort to take down a healer.

It's a solo effort to heal.

Hence my problem, Healing is too easy, too high and contradictory to the entire dynamic of Pvp.

When a Healer on it's own isn't a sitting duck, something is hilariously wrong.

[solarfallz]

It's a team effort to take down a healer.

It's a solo effort to heal.

Hence my problem, Healing is too easy, too high and contradictory to the entire dynamic of Pvp.

When a Healer on it's own isn't a sitting duck, something is hilariously wrong.

Healing isn't any easier than damaging. They both suffer from the same problems which I elaborated on in the first reply.

Also healers don't need to be a "sitting duck" when alone to not make everything within 40 yards immortal. Healers were plenty capable of holding their own pre-BC, yet at the same time, healers couldn't just keep everyone near them alive with ease.

[nightfalls]

It's a team effort to take down a healer.

It's a solo effort to heal.

Didn't we just contradict you on that? Healing is a team effort. And a healer alone IS a sitting duck not to mention not contributing to the team.

[theostrichsays]

I don't do many arenas as they are not my personal piece of pie (2's caps and the occasional 3's) but have been doing RBG's fairly consistently the last couple seasons.
When we bring in bad healers, for the most part they are absolutely worthless. If bad healers were absolute God Mode, I could see the problem.
If anything my biggest gripe is the disparity in healer usefulness (which could very well be simply a byproduct of being in the 1900-2100 range where most players are good, but the talent disparity is still highly noticable.)

[RelaZ]

This is so cute... even though there is (arguably) an issue with the healing in this game at the moment, you missed it completely.

[Deleted]

I used to hate healers but I've mellowed since then and I think they're more balanced this go around than in the last expansion.

[Stormspellz]

It's a team effort to take down a healer.

It's a solo effort to heal.

Hence my problem, Healing is too easy, too high and contradictory to the entire dynamic of Pvp.

When a Healer on it's own isn't a sitting duck, something is hilariously wrong.

anyone wanna take a guess at his main? I'm going with combat rogue.

You demand evidence from people yet provide any reasonable evidence yourself

[Fritters154]

I don't though. Evidence in this very thread proves them wrong. And Healing and it's difficulty?

Healing in WoW is like DPSing, but your HPS requirement is lower and your spells do much more healing than other things do damage.

Evidence in this thread? Pretty much everything that has been said is opinion (primarily yours) and you are treating it as fact. Your logic is abysmal...

[melzas]

I agree healing is easier than dpsing (at least in pvp). It's ok to have one spec/role being easier to play, so that less smart/fast people can have some fun in the game. However I don't agree that it's stronger. Like many people before me in this thread said, 2 competent dps shouldn't have problems killing one healer (assuming similar level of gear and skill). In random bgs you rarely see this situation (of similar gear and skill), so for someone rather new to pvp it will often appear as if healers are unkillable (because random fully geared resto druid decided to do some random bgs for fun), but it's really just an ilussion.

People tend to remember more of things that annoy them rather than those that are nice for them (when you pwn that green geared healer you think "man, I'm good", but when you run into this fully epic gladiator holy pala, suddenly you can't kill him so you assume it's not because he is better but because healers are OP).

[Deleted]

Yep, games like Dota2 or TF2 gets it right, healers should be a good thing to have on your team, but not mandatory.

[nightfalls]

I agree healing is easier than dpsing (at least in pvp)

In PvE I'd agree healing is easier. In PvP, I'm not so sure. You still have to do the same thing as DPS: Watch your positioning to avoid damage/CC, watch for enemy burst, and help CC/damage to support your team's burst (which means you need to know when it's happening, granted that's the outcome of both parties communicating). It seems quite similar to being a good DPS.

I don't PvP that much, so granted, I'm no "expert" - I haven't played at exactly Glad level, but have at high enough of a level that as a healer, if you're positioned poorly you're very swiftly punished either with a never-ending CC chain, or even better, just getting globaled (and yes, if you're badly positioned, good DPS will do that to you).

but when you run into this fully epic gladiator holy pala, suddenly you can't kill him so you assume it's not because he is better but because healers are OP).

Well, even if you can't kill him (say, in a BG) because he bubbles and runs away, if you make him do that you've already stopped him from supporting his team, which is just as good a victory.

[DirtyDotter]

Healing in random bgs is completely different than healing in Arena (and assuming it's different in RBGs too). In random bgs, it's easy to heal because you don't get focused as often (people are stupid and train what ever dps they can stick on while that person is getting spammed with heals.

If people do try to kill the healer in randoms, if the healer tries to fake cast (at all) then they shouldn't have much trouble healing. They will go down eventually without someone healing them or a decent peel or two when they're low with no outs. By that time the decent healers team probably won the group fight.

If the healer does not try to fake cast, or if the dps has half a brain and expects the healer to fake cast, then just 1 dps can stop the healer enough to let the other dps kill what ever they're trying to kill. I should note here, that decent healers get greedy in randoms and if you kick them while they're low then they are pretty much dead unless they pop aura mastery (ex: a god, I mean paladins, can't bubble if they're silenced.) ... you can also CC healers in randoms, but it's hard to coordinate that with 9 - 14 other random people, so everything gets DR'd fast.

Basically, if you queue up with atleast one or two friends that you can coordinate your attacks with then you shouldn't have any problems with most healers in randoms. If you're terrible, then it won't make a difference.

Instead of blaming the other class, or the other spec, you could try learning how to play the game. You could also try leveling a healer so you can be god mode too, but then we'd be here listening to you complain about how terrible the game is with how cc/kicks/dmg/etc are.

Even though healing is pretty high atm, this problem with healers being gods in randoms has been around since at least TBC. I don't remember what random bgs were like in vanilla, I was so bad then I don't think it would have made a difference if they were gods or target dummies.

[PS.. wasnt this thread locked a few days ago?]

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In PvE I'd agree healing is easier. In PvP, I'm not so sure. You still have to do the same thing as DPS: Watch your positioning to avoid damage/CC, watch for enemy burst, and help CC/damage to support your team's burst (which means you need to know when it's happening, granted that's the outcome of both parties communicating). It seems quite similar to being a good DPS.

Exactly! When you heal in pvp you need to do everything that a DPS does plus some.

You still CC at key moments.
You still assist with damage during kill opportunities.
You worry more about positioning when you're a healer and need to be able to predict what's happening before it happens.
You typically have to direct your entire team on what they should be doing (because u know if they don't do x at this moment, then y will happen next)
You get blamed for every loss (even though you were telling your team to stop the poly, ring, clone or fear that was coming in the next few seconds)
You can win / lose the game in one gcd. (if a dps screws up you can still win in dampening, if a healer screws up the game's over.)

Maybe I just have to right mindset for healing, and the wrong mindset for dps, but I feel like I can contribute much, much more to the game when I'm healing. It erks me when I'm a dps and my healer has no clue what it means when a priest starts moving towards him and spectral guises then complains about getting feared. All of the things I listed affects dps too, but it's not as obvious to them.

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your spells do much more healing than other things do damage.

Which is exactly what happens when you don't disrupt their ability to heal.

[nightfalls]

If people do try to kill the healer in randoms, if the healer tries to fake cast (at all) then they shouldn't have much trouble healing. They will go down eventually without someone healing them or a decent peel or two when they're low with no outs. By that time the decent healers team probably won the group fight.

In BG's it's balanced around having not 1 person but 10 people on the enemy team. If 5-6 enemy DPS all focus you, as a healer, unless your other healers AND your team's DPS know what to do you're toast.

[Deleted]

It's a team effort to take down a healer.

It's a solo effort to heal.

Hence my problem, Healing is too easy, too high and contradictory to the entire dynamic of Pvp.

When a Healer on it's own isn't a sitting duck, something is hilariously wrong.

Healing has gotten a lot easier, especially as a resto druid or disc priest. It takes far too much to kill a disc priest. Healing beasically determines the outcome of the BG / arena. If you have a healer there's a higher chance you'll win, if they're not bad.
So I agree with this and also not.
As long as the DPs put a lot of pressure on the healer, then it's all good.

[Stormspellz]

In BG's it's balanced around having not 1 person but 10 people on the enemy team. If 5-6 enemy DPS all focus you, as a healer, unless your other healers AND your team's DPS know what to do you're toast.

5-6? try 2-3

[nightfalls]

5-6? try 2-3

Even 1 good DPS of the right class puts a huge amount of pressure on a healer, yeah. I guess what I meant at 5-6, you really need your whole team (not just other healers) to help you. But I agree with your main point