Assassination: What sort of DPS cooldown would you rather have?

[Toppy]

Vendetta sucks. Simple as that. Its one of the worst, if not thee worst DPS cooldown in game: its a boring +30% damage, it doesn't aid in your procs, it doesn't aid in resource generation, it doesn't change your rotation, it doesn't even have a neat visual. It's pretty much combat rogue insight, but on a 2 minute timer.

What sort of ability would you like to see replace vendetta?

[Deleted]

I like Vendetta the way it is. A deadly focus on your target. I'd like it off gcd tho.

[Toppy]

I like Vendetta the way it is. A deadly focus on your target. I'd like it off gcd tho.

Well you can just as easily keep it as a deadly focus on a single target, but also make it more interesting. Shadow Blades was a focus on one target that was a great deal more fun to use than the fire and forget vendetta.

[Farseer]

Vendetta sucks. Simple as that. Its one of the worst, if not thee worst DPS cooldown in game: its a boring +30% damage, it doesn't aid in your procs, it doesn't aid in resource generation, it doesn't change your rotation, it doesn't even have a neat visual. It's pretty much combat rogue insight, but on a 2 minute timer.

What sort of ability would you like to see replace vendetta?

Maybe something that turns all our damage in pure poison damage for X seconds and increases it by X amount? Or causes all our attacks to do X% extra poison damage for X seconds? So we don't have to stick to one target (I feel like assassination should be about dynamic target switching anyway so that would be a lot cooler than Vendetta). Mastery would become even better though, but I don't know if they really *have* to avoid one stat being a lot better than others. Even with marginal differences people will calculate the best one and try to stack that.

I think something like this would be a lot better than Vendetta. Imo they should just make something like above the lvl 100 talent for Assassination in place of Shadow Reflection, and remove Vendetta altogether. A unique option for all specs would be nice.

[Xaide]

What if they made it a buff, off the GCD, and added the Shadow Blades 1 extra CP function to it? Sounds interesting "enough" to me. Thoughts?

[Gnu]

What if they made it a buff, off the GCD, and added the Shadow Blades 1 extra CP function to it? Sounds interesting "enough" to me. Thoughts?

I'll take that + a cool cosmetic change to actually show that you are using your major DPS CD, at the moment it's a bit sad, subtle but sad.

[Athonel]

I like a combination of a couple ideas mentioned here.

Venom Blades: Draw upon your poisons to empower your weapons, causing your auto-attacks to deal pure poison damage and increasing the damage your abilities and melee attacks deal to the target by 30%. Your combo-point-generating abilities to generate an additional combo point when used. Lasts 20 sec.

Glyph of Venom Blades:

Use: Permanently teaches you this glyph.

Reduces the damage bonus of your Venom Blades ability by 5% but increases its duration by 10 sec.

*This cooldown does not trigger the gcd, and is a buff on the rogue*

It could be argued that this is too strong, but Assassination burst currently has some of the lowest burst capabilities in the game.

[SynergyDarkstar]

Glyph of Venom Blades:

Use: Permanently teaches you this glyph.

Reduces the damage bonus of your Venom Blades ability by 5% but increases its duration by 10 sec.

No, no, a thousand times no. One of the worst parts of Vendetta (along with the other worst parts) is that there's a mandatory, flat out dps increase glyph. An incredibly stupid idea on the part of Blizzard and just continues to reveal their ridiculous disconnect between stated design and actuality.

It has been stated again and again that glyphs should NOT have dps increases (this isn't calling you out for your idea, but more of a criticism of what we have now)


OT: I'd be satisfied with a poison-themed Shadow Blades, but I also think that an interesting concept would be to divest the Envenom buff from Envenom (this would require some spec rework because I like having the finisher affect your rotation) and turn that into a sort duration, short CD (1m) with similar characteristics. It fits w/ the whole "pool resources for appropriate times" theme of the spec. I'd even argue that this would be more impactful than what we have now, with 80%+ envenom uptimes easily attainable.

[Athonel]

No, no, a thousand times no. One of the worst parts of Vendetta (along with the other worst parts) is that there's a mandatory, flat out dps increase glyph. An incredibly stupid idea on the part of Blizzard and just continues to reveal their ridiculous disconnect between stated design and actuality.

It has been stated again and again that glyphs should NOT have dps increases (this isn't calling you out for your idea, but more of a criticism of what we have now)


OT: I'd be satisfied with a poison-themed Shadow Blades, but I also think that an interesting concept would be to divest the Envenom buff from Envenom (this would require some spec rework because I like having the finisher affect your rotation) and turn that into a sort duration, short CD (1m) with similar characteristics. It fits w/ the whole "pool resources for appropriate times" theme of the spec. I'd even argue that this would be more impactful than what we have now, with 80%+ envenom uptimes easily attainable.

Yeah, I'd be more than happy to get rid of the glyph. If the idea of the glyph were removed, what do you think about my ideas?

[Skygoneblue]

I'd like something that makes Envenom consume extra energy to deal more damage, kind of like Ferocious Bite. Make it also refresh Rupture during the cooldown, and I'd call that interesting at the very least.

[Squirl]

Shadow Blades. I miss it so much.

[maddnesskhaz]

Having Vendetta (and Find Weakness) as a buff on the Rogue instead of the target would be amazing for any multi-target fight. I find having powerful CD's being glued to a single target as a horribly clumsy mechanic given the changes made to CP's. That said, backstab is still positional...

Part of the problem is that Assassination has so much damage coming from unexciting sources like Deadly Poison, and that the base DPS is fairly bad in 6.1, that a 30% damage increase doesn't feel at all powerful.

[Deleted]

Having Vendetta (and Find Weakness) as a buff on the Rogue instead of the target would be amazing for any multi-target fight. I find having powerful CD's being glued to a single target as a horribly clumsy mechanic given the changes made to CP's. That said, backstab is still positional...

I agree with this, however still wouldn't fix assassination or make it any more fun, just easier and slightly less restricting. Seen as the 'niche' for Assassination is meant to be 2-4 target cleave scenarios I think a cool thing to do would be to give it the same FoK mod as sub got, as this would make aoe actually viable (1CP per mob hit) but also to make Vendetta apply to all targets with rupture at the time of cast. Therefore on fights like Maidens you would have to rupture all the and then Vendetta to mark your dotted targets kinda thing, it would add to the niche without making it OP for AoE.

The FW buff being on the rogue themselves for Sub would make there aoe broken beyond belief :P

[maddnesskhaz]

Potentially true, but say a fight like M Kromog, it would be so nice to actually have FW last between pillar swaps!

I'm not sure tying Rupture to Vendetta would make it user friendly, but on a fight like H&F it would make target swapping a lot nicer during CD's.

Something like CT applying a rupture-esque bleed that regens energy would be very helpful.

[Deleted]

Poison Bomb - 1 minute CD :
Your next Envenom or Death from Above inflicts 100% of its damage to all enemies within 12 yards of your main target and applies all your poisons to them. When used against a player, the bomb takes 2 seconds to explode and deal damage, it can be dispelled as a poison debuff.

EDIT : this is an AOE CD only which scales with Mastery, Crit and MS and provides a big AOE burst : big numbers everywhere, once every minutes.
It works in synergie with Vandeta, Death from Above and Vanish/Nightstalker so that you can modulate its power to better fit the needs of the fight. You have to choose the exact correct moment to maximize the damage without pulling aggro.
In PVP, the duration before explosion can be adjusted to get it difficult enough to dispell but not too much.

[Raintola]

I agree with this, however still wouldn't fix assassination or make it any more fun, just easier and slightly less restricting. Seen as the 'niche' for Assassination is meant to be 2-4 target cleave scenarios I think a cool thing to do would be to give it the same FoK mod as sub got, as this would make aoe actually viable (1CP per mob hit) but also to make Vendetta apply to all targets with rupture at the time of cast. Therefore on fights like Maidens you would have to rupture all the and then Vendetta to mark your dotted targets kinda thing, it would add to the niche without making it OP for AoE.

The FW buff being on the rogue themselves for Sub would make there aoe broken beyond belief :P

You ever figure that "easier and slightly less restricting" would be more fun to some people?

[Fiska]

You ever figure that "easier and slightly less restricting" would be more fun to some people?

It would be better, but he's interested in taking it to the next level. Comparatively, Adrenaline Rush increases the pace of your rotation, and Shadow Dance lets you use Stealth abilities. Vendetta doesn't do anything exciting in the same fashion, and that's what he'd like to see.

Poison Bomb - 1 minute CD :
Your next Envenom or Death from Above inflicts 100% of its damage to all enemies within 12 yards of your main target and applies all your poisons to them. When used against a player, the bomb takes 2 seconds to explode and deal damage, it can be dispelled as a poison debuff.

Assassination doesn't need more to use during AoE. It first and foremost needs to have its current AoE rotation fixed so it's not more complicated than its ST rotation and actually does some damage.

[SynergyDarkstar]

Yeah, I'd be more than happy to get rid of the glyph. If the idea of the glyph were removed, what do you think about my ideas?

The "additional combo point" part is good, and a lot of people have wanted that. The three main problems w/ Vendetta are:
1) On the GCD
2) Debuff on a single target
3) Changes nothing about the rotation (speed, CPs, etc)

Anything would be better as long as it mitigates those three points

[Joric]

I'm happy with Vendetta. 30% Increase to damage Is no minor buff. And to be able to see those pesky fellow Rogues and Druids when they reset is a key advantage in PvP.

[Deleted]

Doesn't need any more CDs, it needs an additional ability to use while envenom and rupture are applied.