Red Crane Temple: Was Tyrande right?

[Zulkhan]

Lol the most important question however is...why Varian didn't inform Tyrande aswell of the Sha instead of sitting there and looking smart? Even assuming Varian was informed last-minute by his son, he had to share immediately that info to Tyrande, not leave her ignorant of such an important detail.

[Trassk]

When I saw it, all I thought was 'Oh look, they are making another leader look like a moron just to make Varian look all the better', the same as they did with Moira, the same as they did with Jaina even making her into a raving psycho to make him look the better, the same as they did with grandpa Genn who stands next to him with no statue at all, all the story and characters shifted around to make Varian into the 'rightful ruler of the alliance'.

I hate this kind of ham fisted storytelling, you might think that critical considering Thrall was in a similar position once, but the difference there is that Thrall formed the horde from scratch and brought other leaders into the horde, and in a way was more then happy to step down from his position later on, while Varian just overshadows all other alliance leaders as their better.

The only one in the alliance that doesn't seem to suffer from Varians shadow is Velen, even though our velens not done anything since TBC (AU Velen not counted)

This is the kind of shit you get in comic books where because batmans so popular, he must also be the one who can easily take down every other member of the justice league, even though he has no powers, its just written into it that he can.

[Katie45]

Varian was right his plan was less risky and was worth a try, if it didn't work you could just continue a frontal assault, and if you though tyrande was out of character her something, you didn't play warcraft 3, she is a hothead and always has been

[Wyrt]

Varian was right his plan was less risky and was worth a try, if it didn't work you could just continue a frontal assault, and if you though tyrande was out of character her something, you didn't play warcraft 3, she is a hothead and always has been

But who would know orcs would go full retard and run 1 after the other into a super obvious trap?

I think Tyrande's mistake was overestimating orcish intelligence.

[Bit-Metal]

Most of the ally story felt rush in Mop (and a bit in WoD). I think that when they drop the mop story line that was going to focus on Varian (I think it was going to be called trail of the king) that they didn't replace the work they already did. It felt out of place in the story and doesn't add the Mop lore. You could remove it and nothing would be lost.

[Wildmoon]

Varian's choice was more efficient. Tyrande would have won but will suffer some damage. It fit her character because she has always been quite reckless.

[Toppy]

Most of the ally story felt rush in Mop (and a bit in WoD). I think that when they drop the mop story line that was going to focus on Varian (I think it was going to be called trail of the king) that they didn't replace the work they already did. It felt out of place in the story and doesn't add the Mop lore. You could remove it and nothing would be lost.

Even better, they didn't even finish the "trials of the high king" thing. They stopped at 5.1 and called it a day when it was supposed to go throughout the whole expansion (and into WoD).

Some people think they scrapped the idea because having one single person lord over the entire "alliance" as a powerful, better than everyone, figure seemed hypocritical and stupid.

Like, what we got out of the Trials was

1. Varian's is a better polititian than the Dwarves and is actually willing to get stuff done whereas Dwarves obviously don't get shit done.
2. Varian is a better leader in war than Tyrande.

Could you imagine if it kept going? Varian setting Mekkatorque straight on an invention he keeps going absent minded professor on? Varian teaching Velen the importance of faith as he gets lost in constant prophecies and forgetting to keep an eye on his people? Varian teaching Aysa Cloudsinger about morality?

[Wyrt]

Even better, they didn't even finish the "trials of the high king" thing. They stopped at 5.1 and called it a day when it was supposed to go throughout the whole expansion (and into WoD).

Some people think they scrapped the idea because having one single person lord over the entire "alliance" as a powerful, better than everyone, figure seemed hypocritical and stupid.

Like, what we got out of the Trials was

1. Varian's is a better polititian than the Dwarves and is actually willing to get stuff done whereas Dwarves obviously don't get shit done.
2. Varian is a better leader in war than Tyrande.

Could you imagine if it kept going? Varian setting Mekkatorque straight on an invention he keeps going absent minded professor on? Varian teaching Velen the importance of faith as he gets lost in constant prophecies and forgetting to keep an eye on his people? Varian teaching Aysa Cloudsinger about morality?

Ugh, high king. Such a horrible plot line.

Surprisingly, it was even more terrible when first announced because the trials were supposed to end with the other race leaders bowing to him and declaring him their king. Then through the power of complaining it got cut back to "No, really, he's just a military leader guys, like Lothar! He's just called High King because reasons."

[Toppy]

Ugh, high king. Such a horrible plot line.

Surprisingly, it was even more terrible when first announced because the trials were supposed to end with the other race leaders bowing to him and declaring him their king. Then through the power of complaining it got cut back to "No, really, he's just a military leader guys, like Lothar! He's just called High King because reasons."

I'd like to think blizz is starting to take the complaints of human-centrism in WoW as something players actually care about. Humans have so far had a lesser part in WoD than they did in MoP and Cata. But thats of course all subject to change at a moments notice.

[Wyrt]

I'd like to think blizz is starting to take the complaints of human-centrism in WoW as something players actually care about. Humans have so far had a lesser part in WoD than they did in MoP and Cata. But thats of course all subject to change at a moments notice.

They still scrapped the draenei city for a crappy human city on Trashran. We got stuck with a human garrison. And now in 6.2 we're getting a bunch of human boats while draenei still don't have even 1 boat model despite having large docks in 2 cities(probably 3 if we ever see Farahlon).

We might have a bit less human characters(Khadgar is around), but we're still drowning in human stuff.

[Aquamonkey]

Varian teaching Velen the importance of faith as he gets lost in constant prophecies and forgetting to keep an eye on his people?

That already happened with Anduin schooling Velen in the short story.

[Wyrt]

That already happened with Anduin schooling Velen in the short story.

Yes, when the humans attacked the draenei and Anduin ran off to Velen to bitch about how mean the draenei were to the poor, innocent humans who didn't at all have it coming.

Fuck that brat.

[Wildmoon]

Yes, when the humans attacked the draenei and Anduin ran off to Velen to bitch about how mean the draenei were to the poor, innocent humans who didn't at all have it coming.

Fuck that brat.

Sometimes being too focused on big things makes you lose sight of simple things. That's perfectly reasonable.

[Xeraxis]

Hush Tyrande!

[Kallisto]

i stil wonder... why are people holding tyrande such in high regards when it comes too Militaristic use? Everybody says she got thousands of years of experience yes..... at life not at war. If i remember correct did the night elves not have it pretty peacefull beside a few skirmishes after the sundering and until the third war? So why do people think she should have any military experience? She is a High priest not a General.

But high priestesses and priestess of the moon were the generals in the Night Elf army. At least if WC3 lore about it is still canon.

[Toppy]

But high priestesses and priestess of the moon were the generals in the Night Elf army. At least if WC3 lore about it is still canon.

The thing is, their army didn't have much to fight for 10,000 years. Any enemy they had they grossly out armed and out numbered.

Tyrande herself didn't even earn her position, it was gifted to her by Elune. She was a novice when she took command, and when she did take command, all the fighting was over and it was nothing but clean up.

Now, don't get me wrong, she WAS a skilled Priestess. But leader? We've never really seen that. We know of a few times with Tyrande leading: In WotA she led a group which would have been slaughtered if Malfurion hadn't got pissed at the sentinels being killed and gone berserk. The Watchers refused to listen to her for some reason. She blew up her own bridge in TFT.

The whole "10,000 years!" thing doesn't really matter much when they were at a relative peace for most of that time. Hell, in the Trial of Garrosh she was mostly just loud and disruptive, speaking out of turn. She's very very impulsive: this is shown again and again.

Tyrande, oddly enough, is more like Garrosh than any other none-Orc in WoW imo. She's reckless, impulsive, and a godly fighter. She'd be better as the Night Elves champion, than their leader.

[ghostblade]

But high priestesses and priestess of the moon were the generals in the Night Elf army. At least if WC3 lore about it is still canon.

A general is as good as his experience is. With the only "lorewise" big war after the sundering being the War of the shifting sand which she did not partake in she had little to no experience until the legion was back on there doorstep. And even after that she did not stay long in the field as a general.

hell in my books ( hate me if you don't. ) The night elves have perhaps the least WAR ( not battle. i mean true war) experienced soldiers/leaders. just cause you are 10000 years old doesn't mean you know how to lead. Most orcs and humans have a way battle or war experience then most night elves. Only the taurens and gnomes have the least amount of war experience ( one is a former nomad race the other did not partake in many wars only supplied inventions.)

[Toppy]

A general is as good as his experience is. With the only "lorewise" big war after the sundering being the War of the shifting sand which she did not partake in she had little to no experience until the legion was back on there doorstep. And even after that she did not stay long in the field as a general.

hell in my books ( hate me if you don't. ) The night elves have perhaps the least WAR ( not battle. i mean true war) experienced soldiers/leaders. just cause you are 10000 years old doesn't mean you know how to lead. Most orcs and humans have a way battle or war experience then most night elves. Only the taurens and gnomes have the least amount of war experience ( one is a former nomad race the other did not partake in many wars only supplied inventions.)

The great irony in that the Pandaren have had more experience with war than the Night Elves, despite all the criticism of them being to peaceful.

Shado-pan > Sentinels in pretty much every way.

[ghostblade]

The great irony in that the Pandaren have had more experience with war than the Night Elves, despite all the criticism of them being to peaceful.

Shado-pan > Sentinels in pretty much every way.

one could always deny it with the pandaren but yea every 100 years the fight with the mantid.

[Toppy]

one could always deny it with the pandaren but yea every 100 years the fight with the mantid.

And the ever present threat posed by Saurok, Yaungol, and the Hozen. Maybe not a war, but their populace is certainly more battle ready than the Night Elves which, prior to WC3 had to deal with what? I don't recall them having any foes in their land.