Mythic Raiding...Sorry This just needs to happen.

[Naux]

Mythic raiding to stay alive absolutely needs to have the 10-man/20-man option to it. I know personally I am fully BiS Heroic geared on my Ele sham and can do the mythic content the problem is my guild broke up due to the lack of being able to recruit and even recruiting getting a consistent number of people to show on the given raid nights. There is nothing wrong with the difficulty of mythic I love it. But even after talking to many people about the idea of it either having a 10 man option or even being able to flex it but make it guild only or even cross-realm it (last resort type of option, would make it way too casual.)

But oh wait now people are gonna say that it would make it casual and that's not what its made for right? Well why not? The competitive scene will still be just that, competitive . My experience people just have a preference now of how many people they are comfortable with I personally am more comfortable with 9 others than 19 others. Where there are people you feel the opposite. Obviously this is just an idea, and its not perfect by any means. But there is a way to make it work.

I just personally enjoyed the old raiding system the competition was greater you had 25 man guilds doing their content heroic and what not and then 10 man guilds doing their heroic content and such, people raided with whatever they felt comfortable in some 10, some 25. People say the gear difference was an obligation to raid 25 blah blah but forget the competition was in 2 different brackets so the gear was fine. At the end of the day all it came down to was choice of said person wanting to raid you can either join a 10 man guild or 25 man. but now take that concept into just mythic raiding with the gear and such staying the same now all you have is the competition in 2 different brackets again. Which from the people I've talked to both Hardcore raiders 10/10 mythic and just heroic guilds. A lot of them would enjoy that more than the one set difficulty , 20 people or you can't do it.

Mythic raiding is plenty alive, officers not willing to put in the effort to recruit or merge guilds with another recruiting guild? Sounds like your problem.

[iriecolorado]

I'd rather the wake up and realize that this game needs more content than a 'raid-or-die' loot treadmill. Difficulty sliders aren't content.

[Notdev]

Personally I think a better move would be the elimination of LFR difficulty and just put the match-making component into normal and heroic. Yes, a normal or heroic "LFR" is what I am suggesting. I like my wow like I likes muh shooters; I want a quick game not sit around waiting for a healer to sign in.

Pre-organized groups can just have additional loot or higher chances of warforging.

You really think the average LFR group with ~20-30 additional ilvls could come anywhere close to handling normal blackhand? Theres a reason any content that you can group through LFR/LFD is mindless.

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I'd rather the wake up and realize that this game needs more content than a 'raid-or-die' loot treadmill. Difficulty sliders aren't content.

Agreed. Raiding doesn't need to be more accessible, but there needs to be more to do.

[uhohzombies]

Personally I think a better move would be the elimination of LFR difficulty and just put the match-making component into normal and heroic. Yes, a normal or heroic "LFR" is what I am suggesting. I like my wow like I likes muh shooters; I want a quick game not sit around waiting for a healer to sign in.

Pre-organized groups can just have additional loot or higher chances of warforging.

That sounds like HELL

[Deleted]

Personally I think it's fine. Every expension guilds disband etc. Now they have made 20 man to make the raids better. With 10man or 25m previous heroics. The fights werent balanced. 10m had some fights that were so hard to get past while 25m felt like it was a trash mob and visa versa.

There are enough guilds raiding mythic at the moment. So no it is not dead. Having trouble killing the last boss on mythic is only a good thing. It should be hard. It should be a challenge.

[Hammerjack]

I'm also a BiS heroic player who could do mythic but isn't in a guild that will ever have enough people to pull it off, nor will I get in a guild that will accept my tight time restrictions.

That being said - I have no expectation that blizzard change their setup to accommodate me or raiders like me.

At some point there has to be a pinnacle that takes time, effort, coordination, manpower and lots of skill to achieve. I don't believe the model should change just because I may have the skill to clear the content but none of the rest.

[Toxigen]

I'm also a BiS heroic player who could do mythic but isn't in a guild that will ever have enough people to pull it off, nor will I get in a guild that will accept my tight time restrictions.

That being said - I have no expectation that blizzard change their setup to accommodate me or raiders like me.

At some point there has to be a pinnacle that takes time, effort, coordination, manpower and lots of skill to achieve. I don't believe the model should change just because I may have the skill to clear the content but none of the rest.

Thank you.

[Teebone]

You really think the average LFR group with ~20-30 additional ilvls could come anywhere close to handling normal blackhand? Theres a reason any content that you can group through LFR/LFD is mindless.

EXACTLY my point. Would they be able to handle Blackhand immediately? Hell no. Eventually they would. I think not only would the added challenge be awesome for the average joe, but fucking fun as hell. Imagine raiding without loot drama; totally 100% free of loot drama, kick the toxic people even vote to blacklist 'em (a feature that could be added). I would actually start raiding again. Not because of better loot, but because I'm sick of guild/loot/drama/queue BULLSHIT. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to just jump right in and have some damn fun with wow without having to raise an army to do so. And since it's not going to come from low-numbered group CONTENT...

Agreed. Raiding doesn't need to be more accessible, but there needs to be more to do.

I think we know that's not going to happen again by this point. I've lost all faith in the content creators of WoW.

[Hammerjack]

Personally I think a better move would be the elimination of LFR difficulty and just put the match-making component into normal and heroic. Yes, a normal or heroic "LFR" is what I am suggesting. I like my wow like I likes muh shooters; I want a quick game not sit around waiting for a healer to sign in.

Pre-organized groups can just have additional loot or higher chances of warforging.

They have this already - it's called 'pre-made groups' in the LFD tool.

If you made N or HC difficulties of the LFR variety (no communication, ignoring mechanics, etc) it would be a disaster.

[Teebone]

That sounds like HELL

I know, right? My kind of hell =D

The systems are in place to make it work; just eliminate the EZ mode version and give us a mass match-making system. It might make raiding... interesting to me again...

Sure as fuck isn't now.

[uhohzombies]

EXACTLY my point. Would they be able to handle Blackhand immediately? Hell no. Eventually they would. I think not only would the added challenge be awesome for the average joe, but fucking fun as hell. Imagine raiding without loot drama; totally 100% free of loot drama, kick the toxic people even vote to blacklist 'em (a feature that could be added). I would actually start raiding again. Not because of better loot, but because I'm sick of guild/loot/drama/queue BULLSHIT. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to just jump right in and have some damn fun with wow without having to raise an army to do so. And since it's not going to come from low-numbered group CONTENT...

Have you BEEN in an LFR run lately? It's nothing BUT toxicity and making it any harder would just make the d-bags rage that much harder. It would be a horrible experience. As for imagining no loot drama? I've lived it for years. Find a better guild and don't expect the game to change in order to fix personal problems.

[Teebone]

They have this already - it's called 'pre-made groups' in the LFD tool.

Pfft. NOT the same thing. These groups have been consisting of people looking to be carried and/or looking to get the loot THEY want at the expense of other groups. I want this. So bad. I want match-making in normal and heroic modes. Give rewards to pre-mades, that's fine.

I want to jump in, tear shit up and drink a beer. If it sounds like I want WoW to be more like FPS's, then fine. I want that. I want more action. More excitment. WoW has gotten too fucking slow for me.


I. Need. More.

[Sengiratolom]

Mythic raiding to stay alive absolutely needs to have the 10-man/20-man option to it.

Might aswell stop reading there as the whole reason for mythic to have a single format is to make it the same for everyone, while the old 2 size system had fights that were lots easyer in 1 mode compared to another, more often then not 10man modes of encounters where easyer on the presumed same difficulty as anything number related, per person, was lower.
Lower dps requirements, per person, lower damage on the raid, and lower dmg on tanks beyond that, allowing for cutting 1 healer and or allowing said tank to use more dps gear, further trivalising the number requirements of the fight.


Flexible, or more then 1 size raidmodes can NEVER be balanced, simly due to the fact that while adding another person to an excisting 10man group doesn't add 0.2 tanks, 0.2 healers, 0.6 dps, it adds either of those, because abilties now scale, the tank using 1/2 dps gear who was surviving just fine may have trouble with the very same abilities because 1 or 2 o5 ppl joined, consequently the healers may now deplete their mana faster.

Also boss abilities that span Y amount of adds do have treshholds
Example: there might be 2 adds on 10man, still 2 on 13, but once you add a 14th person it becomes 3 and stays that way till 17 where another gets added, making this example minnion fight easiest to deal with in setups that are 1 person short of the next treshold, and hardest with those just on the new treshhold.

Likewise raid dmg can jump unexpectedly by adding or substracting 1 person.

[Aurora]

I'd personally like the hard 20 cap from mythic also extended to heroic, flexible has led to far more of a "I'll raid when I feel like it" kind of mindset which has weakened the team dynamic from the sporadic attendance since everybody knows they can skip raids whenever they like without consequence.

[corebit]

I can accept the 20-man format but I wish they opened up so we can invite Cross-Realm people into the raid. Right now Mythic raiding is only viable on a few select high-pop servers like Stormrage and Illidan, the rest have like only one or two guilds that can field the numbers and talent. Everyone is scrambling desperately to find able-bodied raiders.

[Teebone]

Have you BEEN in an LFR run lately? It's nothing BUT toxicity and making it any harder would just make the d-bags rage that much harder. It would be a horrible experience. As for imagining no loot drama? I've lived it for years. Find a better guild and don't expect the game to change in order to fix personal problems.

You mean like how Mythic came about? Because the best of the best wanted to be there own special snowflakes because.. why was it again? They thought everyone wanted to be like them or something?

[Vestig3]

Problem with people that play casualy that attempt mythic raiding is that blizzard gave them a finger and now they want the whole hand.

[Notdev]

EXACTLY my point. Would they be able to handle Blackhand immediately? Hell no. Eventually they would.

I don't think they will, unless for some reason a group was lucky enough to have multiple high end raiders queue into their group. Or, perhaps, you could take several hours kicking the lowest performer after each wipe and hope you get an above average replacement, repeat until the boss finally dies. But that would likely take hours, which goes against your quick gratification mentality.

I think not only would the added challenge be awesome for the average joe, but fucking fun as hell. Imagine raiding without loot drama; totally 100% free of loot drama, kick the toxic people even vote to blacklist 'em (a feature that could be added).

You could just join or create your own group with personal loot. Bam, no loot drama. But again, this all comes at the cost of the average group being absolutely incapable of killing.. well pretty much anything.

I would actually start raiding again. Not because of better loot, but because I'm sick of guild/loot/drama/queue BULLSHIT. There's no reason I shouldn't be able to just jump right in and have some damn fun with wow without having to raise an army to do so. And since it's not going to come from low-numbered group CONTENT...

It sucks you've had a bad experience with organized raiding, but to be honest I've always associated this attitude with being unwilling of being accountable for their own performance. If you've had such consistently bad experiences with guilds and pugs the common factor is you.

[Deleted]

Have you BEEN in an LFR run lately? It's nothing BUT toxicity and making it any harder would just make the d-bags rage that much harder. It would be a horrible experience.

That's generally only true for Horde side. On Alliance you can find many runs that go without any bad word being said.

[uhohzombies]

You mean like how Mythic came about? Because the best of the best wanted to be there own special snowflakes because.. why was it again? They thought everyone wanted to be like them or something?

Sorry, but for one, Mythic is just rebranded Heroic with a static size. Your comment is just rude and inflammatory for no reason. So, professional footballers play at the highest level only because they're special snowflakes who think everyone wants to be like them? Anyone who studies hard and becomes good at their craft is obviously just doing it because they want the envy of others. Sure. If you're going to try and make a point, don't resort to fallacies.