Mythic Raiding...Sorry This just needs to happen.

[kamuimac]

I fear my 6/10M guild is falling apart. We had 24 people on the roster, and 2 people left because they wanted to not ever have to sit. We recruited a few new players to fill in, but not as geared or as good. Someone else quits and then we are doing night 1 in the week with 3 recruits. Struggle on fights like Gruul and Hanz/Franz because of inferior players and we barely make it to Thogar for an hour of progression before the raid week ended. A geared, skilled mage gets frustrated and quits (because he can just join a 10/10M guild with ease). I don't know how to arrest this fail spiral. We have 2 people recruiting multiple hours a day, but a 6/10M guild just isn't special and the quality seems to go down with every recruit we pick up.

well ofc it does - you are experiencing now what a lot of 9-10/10 hc guilds were experiencing 2 months ago and others more succesful were lauging at them when they were saying there is nobody to recruit to make team into mythic - wait few months for summer and alot of guildswhich are 6-7/10 M atm will be canibalized by those stuck on blast furnace or that cleared tier - karma is a bitch. in past you wouldhave a lot of 10 man guilds to feed on and somehow survive - but this is not longer and option and from hunter you become a prey . gl nevertheless.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure why people are having a pissing contest about this again. It's generally acknowledged that Thok was harder on 10, SC harder on 10, paragons harder on 25 and Garrosh harder on 10. Hell, they tuned Thok down on 10 to compensate for lack of raid CD's in 10 man. I know you think plugging 21 CD's into a spreadsheet is rocket science but lol.

You have no clue.

Wouldn't go there saying they were actually harder, they were just too over-tuned for the raid size. If you look simply at mechanics, all the 'harder' 10 heroic bosses were in fact much easier than the 25 heroic counterparts, however you did have that overtuning and then needing the perfect comp, which is what made a lot of those bosses harder than they should have been. It's sad that some of these bosses went live the way they did, because it should have been spotted earlier on.

People should get that, this is one of the reasons why there's no more 10 heroic, it's insanely hard to balance them properly and it heavily limits creativity in mythic encounters because they always had to make sure it could be done the same way on 10 heroic. And the 10v25 qqing was tiring, even though it was entertaining for a while too.

- - - Updated - - -

I fear my 6/10M guild is falling apart. We had 24 people on the roster, and 2 people left because they wanted to not ever have to sit. We recruited a few new players to fill in, but not as geared or as good. Someone else quits and then we are doing night 1 in the week with 3 recruits. Struggle on fights like Gruul and Hanz/Franz because of inferior players and we barely make it to Thogar for an hour of progression before the raid week ended. A geared, skilled mage gets frustrated and quits (because he can just join a 10/10M guild with ease). I don't know how to arrest this fail spiral. We have 2 people recruiting multiple hours a day, but a 6/10M guild just isn't special and the quality seems to go down with every recruit we pick up.

There's a lot of guilds falling apart, but I think that's more because we were spoiled with SoO. SoO had very simple mythic encounters (Maybe SC and Klaxxi were hard, but you could cheese the hell out of those and ignore most mechanics), whereas BRF some require a lot of good play from every individual to get to a kill (Maidens, Furnace and Blackhand) and you can't really cheese the mechanics anymore. It's play along or be dead on the floor.

[kelyne]

Wouldn't go there saying they were actually harder, they were just too over-tuned for the raid size. If you look simply at mechanics, all the 'harder' 10 heroic bosses were in fact much easier than the 25 heroic counterparts, however you did have that overtuning and then needing the perfect comp, which is what made a lot of those bosses harder than they should have been. It's sad that some of these bosses went live the way they did, because it should have been spotted earlier on.

People should get that, this is one of the reasons why there's no more 10 heroic, it's insanely hard to balance them properly and it heavily limits creativity in mythic encounters because they always had to make sure it could be done the same way on 10 heroic. And the 10v25 qqing was tiring, even though it was entertaining for a while too.

I'd say they were actually harder strictly because of raid size not really overturning. Really I think that's okay too it made it more interesting since you couldn't just apply a 25 man strat to a 10 man fight or vicevera.

In general the difference broke down to:
10 Man - Requiring more player responsibility in terms of health and damage output.
25 Man - Requiring more player responsibility in terms on positioning

Really in the 10 man world a lot of the later bosses were harder because they required perfect play pre-nerf. 25 man in general was a lot more forgiving because of additional healers, battle rezs, and raid cool downs. Moreover 25 afforded more flexibility in dropping/adding tanks and healers as needed for encounters. If you look at a fight like Garrosh HC - The difficulty came into play because you had only 10 people to kill/interrupt in first intermission and the number of adds was not reduced from the 25 man version. While on the other hand Paragons for 25 was more difficult because you needed perfect positioning to deal with the fire lines and orange poison.

I agree its difficult to balance both modes but really I don't think they need to be perfectly balanced. I'd much rather be wiping to an "over-tuned" 10 man boss in the game than losing my friends because there is no more content for us to do. Like I said in previous posts - a guild's ability to deal with the logistics of maintaining a 20 man roster shouldn't be considered as part of the "challenge" when doing challenging content. There should be a continuous progression path and since they went 100% flex for everything else imao they should provide that to all difficulties instead of alienating all the guilds able to clear heroic. I honestly I don't see why that is a problem - Just leave everything the same turned to 20 man assume all classes whatever just let guilds have the numerical ability to kill the boss even if mechanically they can't unless they have a minimum of x players or y class. Really I bet most of the early bosses in BrF could be killed 10 man with no mechanic changes if the health-pools were reasonable.

[murbaez]

Basically, Mythic raiding is meant for people who can overcome all odds. People who willingly stake their lives and dignity for a cause. It is not for the weak willed who aren't even willing to do the work to get the people together. If your server doesn't have the people to accommodate then go to another server and make it work. Mythic is for the winners.

Though to be honest it seems like its all just laziness on both parts. Blizzard is too lazy to put the resources and people to tune 2 versions of the same raid while people like me are too lazy to find 19 others...[or 6-8 others on top of current group] to run mythic.

[Wilderness]

No, he did not. There are active threads discussing similar things and we don't need to bring up 67 pages of discussion from 5 months ago.