Why Separate Esports For Women?

[Henako]

Because historically, women have proven to be incapable of competing on a stage dominated by males in esports. I'm obviously generalizing, and I don't know the cause. Most likely due to a difference in participation between men and women.

[lawow74]

thanks for linking that
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Nyborg
haha
"In his research Nyborg has argued that white people tend to be more intelligent than blacks[8] that immigration from non-Western countries leads to a decline in the average intelligence of the receiving Western country[9] and that atheists tend to be more intelligent than religious people.[10][11][12][13] On 31 October 2013 he was convicted of scientific misconduct by the Danish Council for Scientific Misconduct after a 2 year investigation concerning his paper The decay of Western civilization: Double relaxed Darwinian selection[14] published in Personality and Individual Differences.[15]"

I read that and could only think of this quote from Heavy Metal.

[minteK917]

There is no separation, there is female star craft players for exemple. Only a few of them ever qualify for anything. If anything the only separation for women is done by women in most competitive games. As another exemple star craft females formed their own female only league.

Id get the op point if they were publicly pushed away from the leagues and tournaments, but its the opposite. For exemple in smash 4, people are over joyed when Officer Jenny (female ZSS player), qualify for anything. Shes just not anywhere close to the top. Any type of quota that would force leagues and tournaments to pick women that did not qualify would instantly lose any reason to be a competition.

The heatrtstone thing is the first time i ever hear about such practice and i been playing/following competitive games since the days of cs/ut/quake. We had many female players even back then, they just never reached the level.

[therealbowser]

You can argue all day long about how the different sexes have different brains and they work differently and all this other bullshit.

The simple fact is that men and women are for the most part equal in ability mentally. There is nothing significant that will hold either back. They should both be allowed to compete equally if they desire to (very few women are into E-sports, which makes having a separate league for them even more of a joke, but on the other hand may separate them from abuse, it's not for me to say).

This isn't the same as physical sports where sexual dimorphism will give one sex a direct advantage over the other. I mean no offense to the people making arguments here, as their arguments and their opinion is completely fair and worth considering, but I simply find the argument that men and women are different mentally (meaning, one side is better than the other enough to warrant separating the leagues and most likely cutting women out of E-sports entirely) is absolutely ridiculous.

I'll add that if we ever had enough female players to actively form their own league and be able to compete with eachother, then I would have no issues with separating them. But as it is now, it simply holds them back and prevents them from getting into E-sports at all for the most part. Unless and until that changes, they deserve to be a part of anything so long as their skill is high enough to compete, as it should be.

[Tradewind]

My first guess is "diversity PR stunt."

[ghostblade]

okay okay... from what i read to people yes men and woman are intellectual the same. But lets: not ask about that but lets ask this.
What is there tactial mind? cause for stuff like esport or chess you need a tactical mind more then then intellectual.

so the beter question is: is there a difference between men and woman not intellectual but rather Tactical.

[zealo]

Traditionally, men at the top have been performing better than women for a long time, I do not know the reasons for why it is happening but as far as actual competitors and how far they go that is the case.

I guess those that give women special tournaments wants them to have a chance at winning without going up against people they don't stand much chance at beating?

[Deleted]

Because it's this thing about being beaten by a girl and organizers try to avoid that if possible. Don't ask why, it's a thing.

[Sama-81]

okay okay... from what i read to people yes men and woman are intellectual the same. But lets: not ask about that but lets ask this.
What is there tactial mind? cause for stuff like esport or chess you need a tactical mind more then then intellectual.

so the beter question is: is there a difference between men and woman not intellectual but rather Tactical.

I realize this is a loaded topic, but if we look at the "best" in terms of intelligence, males constitute a very large majority of that bracket. Males also vastly dominate the very lowest bracket; the one category where males and females get the same results, are when comparing the average male to the average female. Which means that both the average and the median for both genders are pretty much equal.

[Deleted]

Speaking ONLY about gaming:
IMO, the women are not worse or more stupid, the gaming society expects women to be sub-par, and women willingly take the role of the weak sex, not trying to improve their skills and taking what they have for granted.
For example during my gaming "career" i often witnessed a situation when team blames one player for bad performance, "he" suddenly confesses that actually she is a girl and most players seem to take that as an excuse for shitty performance. I believe many people have anecdotal experience of female players, treated like a special snowflake.
It ruins the competition for them and basically they do not really care to improve much.

This is imho a big problem, not only in gaming, but in gaming as well. Bad players are bad, no matter for the sex.

[RapBreon]

Or men are simply better and we need to ditch this ridiculous notion that everyone everywhere is equal, because it's intellectual cancer.

Chess is as gender neutral as can be and the best woman in the world is surpassed by 65 men. That speaks plenty.

Look at League and tell me how many women are in the top. I for one don't recall seeing any in the LCS ever or DotA tournaments( not that I watch it a lot ).

Men are encouraged to be competitive. Women are not. On average of course. More collaborative academic fields have more women relative to competitive ones.

The more of one group that is representative, the higher the chance that they will dominate the upper echelons.

Pure speculation, chances are those top chess players, play with each other (scrim like esports teams do) to keep sharp. The 66th lady probably doesn't have access to that resource. You learn nothing from crushing people worse than you.

Having studied a bunch of things relating to demographics like this in the past, my first assumption would be that it's down to participation rates.
In fact, let me quickly google that for the chess example you listed.

http://scienceblogs.com/purepedantry...lains-differe/

There we go, literally the first result. That article and plenty of others give more than enough strong evidence that points towards these kinds of gender disparities being predominantly down to participation rates and social factors, rather than any genetic difference in ability.

Intellectual cancer is making sweeping assumptions based on things like equating correlation to causation.

This guy sums it up for me.

[tratra]

Sorry to say that but e.g in CS:GO i've never seen a woman that can play equal pro level... most of pro cs:go women players are average or bellow. Maybe its their own fault that they don't train enough to get to that level?

But imagine the way it is you put women with men generally in gaming... women would get anihilated!

[RapBreon]

Double post sorrrry.

[Tradu]

At least in Starcraft, female pro gamers compete with males just fine. I mean, there's not a lot of them, and they don't necessarily win tournaments, but they exist(Scarlett and Maddelisk being 2 I can think of off the top of my head). There aren't a lot of female pro gamers in general, so having the few that do exist play in their own league seems silly, because they'd be reaaaally limited in terms of possible competition.

[Dunstinator]

Men and women's brains work differently, that's pretty much the short answer.

The long answer is that even though the population of esports is VASTLY dominated by males, the few females that do compete can't compete at their level. Take the population of male gamers, just for examples sake, say 1% of them is capable of competing in esports. While on the other side, take the population of female gamers, and only .3-.5% of them would be able to compete. Look at team siren or whatever for league of legends. They tried to become something and got serious enough about it, but got dumpstered at every step they tried to take.

Men and women work differently; fact. While i wholeheartedly oppose segregation, in a case like esports or sports in general, its the only option to create healthy gaming communities.

The only woman who i have ever seen even come close to competing at a high level is Hafu. In the case that new female gamers rise up and compete, i think they should have the option which league they want to play in considering the rewards for a female league is most likely going to be less than that of a male league.

[pateuvasiliu]

Men are encouraged to be competitive. Women are not. On average of course. More collaborative academic fields have more women relative to competitive ones.

The more of one group that is representative, the higher the chance that they will dominate the upper echelons.

Pure speculation, chances are those top chess players, play with each other (scrim like esports teams do) to keep sharp. The 66th lady probably doesn't have access to that resource. You learn nothing from crushing people worse than you.



This guy sums it up for me.

Don't give me the gender role crap. That woman that's the best could beat 99.9% of the male population.

This isn't an " oh she's oppressed totes " issue. It's a cold hard fact that the best woman isn't even top 50 and no amount of PC crap will change that.

[Deleted]

At least in Starcraft, female pro gamers compete with males just fine. I mean, there's not a lot of them, and they don't necessarily win tournaments, but they exist(Scarlett and Maddelisk being 2 I can think of off the top of my head). There aren't a lot of female pro gamers in general, so having the few that do exist play in their own league seems silly, because they'd be reaaaally limited in terms of possible competition.

Isn't Scarlett a transexual?

[Toppy]

Don't they do this in board games to, like Chess? I'd go and address that before you do e-sports. It'll cascade down.

[Vargur]

Doesn't change the fact that the best woman in the world is 66th when you factor in men.

Yes, but she's FIRST if you eliminate the 65 before her.

[VincentWolf]

Because men are superior in everything. It's just a simple truth and I have no intention or reason to word it in a prettier way.