Is Altruism a weakness?

[Mayhem]

Altruism is why we've got this far.

You say "only the strong will survive", yeah, that's what happened in our evolution. You know who survived? The groups that took care of each other and worked together. Altruism is an evolutionary trait, and a strong one at that.

Altruism is one of the sole reasons why we have that large of a brain. Because we cared for each other. Humans are born not fully developed.

[anakin57]

no it is not a weakness

[Hooked]

no it is not a weakness

People will use you if you are a spineless pushover.

[Mayhem]

People will use you if you are a spineless pushover.

Altruism doesn´t make you a slave.

[Venant]

What better way to stunt one's own potential and development than by focusing their time and resources on other people? Besides making us "feel good", what purpose does altruism actually serve? Imagine if we lived in a world where everyone only focused on their own betterment, only the strong would survive. Yes, it would initially be sad to see the weak perish, but in reality, they are holding back the rest of humanity from progressing in terms of science, technology and intellect.

Definitions
The Strong: Individuals aged 18 years or older that can self-sustain and contribute positively to society's economy.
The Weak: Individuals aged 18 years or older that cannot self-sustain without the assistance of others and cannot contribute positively towards society's economic stability.

(I am aware that many will flame me with emotionally ridden diatribes, but in their hearts they know I am making a valid point.)

By your own definition there are no people who exist nowadays that would fit into the category of 'the strong', unless the last time you got sick or had an infection you went out and synthesized your own antibiotics. By definition, any contributor to society must have some degree of altruism, nobody believes a society can exist if it is made up of sociopaths who devour their own children.

[Mayhem]

By your own definition there are no people who exist nowadays that would fit into the category of 'the strong', unless the last time you got sick or had an infection you went out and synthesized your own antibiotics. By definition, any contributor to society must have some degree of altruism, nobody believes a society can exist if it is made up of sociopaths who devour their own children.

You´re right, i didn´t think he meant self-sustain literally, but if, then yes.

[Rukh]

Much like ants, humans are successful because we learned to work together. Altruism is a biological trait that is successful because even if our direct DNA doesn't pass on, DNA close to ours has a better chance for survival. Its group reciprocity. If as a culture we value altruism and kindness, it also reduces the risk to us and ours because not only are we going out of our way to be good people, but others also are.

On the other hand if we value being self-centered little shitheads, other people do too, and it's a worse world overall. The cult of Rand, and various other antisocial movements that appeal to people with messages that it's ok to act like selfish children instead of adults that are part of a larger overall society are a rot on humanity.

[nocturnus]

The real world isn't 'black & white'. It isn't made out of extreme opposites and absolute polarities.

Altruism is a strength, an important one, crucial to our survival as a species. Egoism, while necessary at times, is easy.

[Deleted]

Good is...technically a weakness. That's not how the Universe works, the Universe is based on the Law of the Jungle, the strong must devour the weak or risk being eaten themselves. It's only humans that choose to ignore that, well mostly, many are still just sapient animals in mind.

If things were dire, you wouldn't see a lot of good going on anywhere.

[Venant]

You´re right, i didn´t think he meant self-sustain literally, but if, then yes.

Perhaps the real question should be, whether it is possible for an individual in modern society, to actually contribute a greater benefit to society that that person reaps from being a member of said society. You have to consider that you benefit not only from the system that exists right now, but also from several hundred years of progress and discovery. If everything was reset to a blank slate, you as an individual aren't going to have enough time in ten thousand lifetimes to restore civilization.

The problem with how we teach history is that it perpetrates the idea that history is just a series of geniuses and heroic figures who either won wars or made amazing breakthroughs. We treat history like a photograph, when how history works is more like an impressionist painting with countless lives combining together to create an image.

[Revi]

Good is...technically a weakness. That's not how the Universe works, the Universe is based on the Law of the Jungle, the strong must devour the weak or risk being eaten themselves. It's only humans that choose to ignore that, well mostly, many are still just sapient animals in mind.

If things were dire, you wouldn't see a lot of good going on anywhere.

There are a lot of places on earth where things are dire, and you're right, altruism goes out the window for a lot of people in that situation.
Does it look like that behavior is making those places better, or is it keeping them down?

Humans don't "ignore" the law of the jungle, they disprove it. Absolute altruism might be detrimental, but cohesion and sensible altruism within a group makes it a lot stronger. We're the dominant species on earth and one of the most altruistic in how we care for those around us - very few animals are willing to take care of the weaker members and others' children the way we do.

Neither absolutely altruism or absolute selfishness work, black and white approaches rarely do, but it's an incredibly beneficial trait to have.

[Rukh]

What has made humans the dominant species is our ability to pass on information. Individually we're smart creatures, but pretty weak, but we have developed this unique ability to learn through communication so we don't have to reinvent the weal for each generation. This is a sea-change that has made us unique and separated us from other creatures, and it wouldn't exist without relying on our society as a whole.

[Mayhem]

Perhaps the real question should be, whether it is possible for an individual in modern society, to actually contribute a greater benefit to society that that person reaps from being a member of said society.

The answer is yes, it is possible. If we work together and help get as much people as possible educated, then a few can contribute a greater benefit to society than they reap. But overall no. It´s pretty hard to measure anyway.

[RH92]

What better way to stunt one's own potential and development than by focusing their time and resources on other people? Besides making us "feel good", what purpose does altruism actually serve? Imagine if we lived in a world where everyone only focused on their own betterment, only the strong would survive. Yes, it would initially be sad to see the weak perish, but in reality, they are holding back the rest of humanity from progressing in terms of science, technology and intellect.

Definitions
The Strong: Individuals aged 18 years or older that can self-sustain and contribute positively to society's economy.
The Weak: Individuals aged 18 years or older that cannot self-sustain without the assistance of others and cannot contribute positively towards society's economic stability.

(I am aware that many will flame me with emotionally ridden diatribes, but in their hearts they know I am making a valid point.)

I think altruism is actually a very selfish act, seeing others happy is what makes an altruistic person happy. Believe it or not, everything we do is selfish, the difference lies in interpretation of consequences.

What is altruism good for? Actually I think it is a will of nature to preserve a species, more people alive means a bigger genetic pool (Is it a right word?) to avoid defects from inbreeding. Some people might be junkies, but they may have child who will be a scientist and discover something amazing.

[Venant]

Good is...technically a weakness. That's not how the Universe works, the Universe is based on the Law of the Jungle, the strong must devour the weak or risk being eaten themselves. It's only humans that choose to ignore that, well mostly, many are still just sapient animals in mind.

If things were dire, you wouldn't see a lot of good going on anywhere.

Actually predators exist in violation of what you term as 'how the universe works', since predators become less and less efficient at energy conservation as they move further up the food chain.

[Mayhem]

I think altruism is actually a very selfish act, seeing others happy is what makes an altruistic person happy. Believe it or not, everything we do is selfish, the difference lies in interpretation of consequences.

You can´t by definition be selfish and altruistic at the same time.

- - - Updated - - -

What is altruism good for? Actually I think it is a will of nature to preserve a species, more people alive means a bigger genetic pool (Is it a right word?) to avoid defects from inbreeding. Some people might be junkies, but they may have child who will be a scientist and discover something amazing.

That´s not how it works. Evolution can´t make decisions. A species either survives or doesn´t.

[Tzalix]

You can´t by definition be selfish and altruistic at the same time.

Well, according to certain aspects of psychology there is no such thing as true altruism. Evolution seems to favour this as well. Helping others just to help others won't help you survive, but helping others so that they in return help you does.

[Ferg]

Altruism is an inherently human trait. To fight it is to fight your own humanity, and there surely is no greater sin.

[Mayhem]

Well, according to certain aspects of psychology there is no such thing as true altruism. Evolution seems to favour this as well. Helping others just to help others won't help you survive, but helping others so that they in return help you does.

Wait so you´re being naive and selfish, and altruistic by accident?

[ro9ue]

I had a philosophy class in college that discussed if altruism is actually real.

Aren't those being selfless in fact being selfish. Often they are helping others because it's what their religion asks of them and will be rewarded in the afterlife, they want to be treated as they treat others, or some other reason where there is in fact a reward for them.

Many people want to save the world because they want to be a hero. What is the true motivation? Being a hero or to help another?

I don't think many people we consider altruistic would actually do the things they do if they didn't have some sort of spirituality governing their morals, get paid in return, want to "feel good", or get some sort of praise/thanks.