Need help for Thogar Mythic

[AMD2]

Hello my guild recently killed Kromog on mythic and tonight we're going on Thogar I have few simple questions if anyone could help me with I would be grateful.

1. Talents : I will be running are SD/DR/BL/AM are they correct ? I watched few warrior PoV for thogar and they all been running same setup

2.Weapons : I have BH hc + Thogar rod HC with socket atm should I swap my Thogar one with another BH HC or Blast furnace HC or Flamebender HC? I have all weps atm

3.Trinkets: I have Forgemaster Mythic + Horn HC warforge should I swap Forgemaster with Scabbard?

4.I have Iron Bellow Sabatons (haste+crit) Mythic from mission and HC doomslag boots the crit+mastery boots would be wise to use Doomslag HC for more mastery on AoE?

Thanks a lot in advance.

[Valrok]

1. Sudden Death/Dragon Roar/Bladestorm/Anger Management, so yeah you've got it
2. 2x Black Hand if you've got it otherwise Black Hand/Furnace Weap
3. In my experience Horn/Vial work best here but I don't have M Forgemaster, Vial is really good because it lines up with recklessness with AM
4. Stick with M Iron Bellow, the mast on Doomslag doesn't outweigh the Str/Crit improvements Iron Bellows have

[PowerGamez]

1. AM is ok - I ran ravager though. It times up perfectly with the different phase bits. BS won't come off CD in time for AM to be useful (the part where you get subsequent MAA like 30 secs after each other). There are certain times when your sitting there with CDs ready waiting for the MAA to spawn.

2. Use 2 x BH. The crit and mastery are great and are the ideal stats for this fight.

3. I'm using Forgemaster Mythic and Mythic Horn atm. Forgemaster Mythic outweighs scabbard - even more so if you get good RNG and it's ramped up as you're going into a BS. It produces stupid numbers. A tip i've been using for scumbag padding - unequip both trinket before pull, wait until 5 seconds before pull, equip both trinkets and pot. this will ensure your trinkets don't proc right away and you'll have both every proc/CD up for first add pack to pad pad pad your way to a good ranking parse. I was able to do 66K and this was with 2 x demo locks and another warrior in raid.

4. Use the mythic ones. The str out values the bonus mastery.

[Gromnak]

1. AM is ok - I ran ravager though. It times up perfectly with the different phase bits. BS won't come off CD in time for AM to be useful (the part where you get subsequent MAA like 30 secs after each other). There are certain times when your sitting there with CDs ready waiting for the MAA to spawn.

2. Use 2 x BH. The crit and mastery are great and are the ideal stats for this fight.

3. I'm using Forgemaster Mythic and Mythic Horn atm. Forgemaster Mythic outweighs scabbard - even more so if you get good RNG and it's ramped up as you're going into a BS. It produces stupid numbers. A tip i've been using for scumbag padding - unequip both trinket before pull, wait until 5 seconds before pull, equip both trinkets and pot. this will ensure your trinkets don't proc right away and you'll have both every proc/CD up for first add pack to pad pad pad your way to a good ranking parse. I was able to do 66K and this was with 2 x demo locks and another warrior in raid.

4. Use the mythic ones. The str out values the bonus mastery.

1. AM is best because it allows your 2nd recklessness to be up for the 2nd wave of adds. Also, if your raid has good aoe dps....there is no way you will even get close to a full duration ravager on those adds. AM will also probably give you an extra reck that you would not get if you did not run AM since your kill time is likely not going to be that fast.


2. I would go with double blackhand weapons.


3. The scabbard will give you more DPS than forgemasters unless you get lucky procs that line up with cds/bladestorm. The ability to guarantee scabbard being used with your cooldowns/bladestorm is what makes it so powerful regardless of the ilvl difference between the trinkets. Although, you should really try to get a vial from heroic maidens on your own time if your guild does not run heroic anymore since it's better than both scabbard and forgemasters.

4. You have 691 crit mastery boots with a socket. 99% sure those are better than 700 non socketed crit haste especially because the amount of crit on the crit haste boots is much lower.

691 socketed boots = 221 str 166 crit (+50) 116 mastery

700 boots = 241 str 126 crit 181 haste

691 socketed boots look like the clear winner to me.

[Alphabrain]

BH 2H is BiS Arms/Fury.

[Nautyless]

H

1. AM is best because it allows your 2nd recklessness to be up for the 2nd wave of adds. Also, if your raid has good aoe dps....there is no way you will even get close to a full duration ravager on those adds. AM will also probably give you an extra reck that you would not get if you did not run AM since your kill time is likely not going to be that fast.


2. I would go with double blackhand weapons.


3. The scabbard will give you more DPS than forgemasters unless you get lucky procs that line up with cds/bladestorm. The ability to guarantee scabbard being used with your cooldowns/bladestorm is what makes it so powerful regardless of the ilvl difference between the trinkets. Although, you should really try to get a vial from heroic maidens on your own time if your guild does not run heroic anymore since it's better than both scabbard and forgemasters.

4. You have 691 crit mastery boots with a socket. 99% sure those are better than 700 non socketed crit haste especially because the amount of crit on the crit haste boots is much lower.

691 socketed boots = 221 str 166 crit (+50) 116 mastery

700 boots = 241 str 126 crit 181 haste

691 socketed boots look like the clear winner to me.

I've done mythic thogar and I've noted that anger management only causes you to have extra blade storms during portions of the fight when blade storm is not needed. I usually go with ravager.

My CD usage are as such.
All CDs popped for the first wave of adds.
Bladestorm and ravager can be reused for after random trains.
Bladestorm and ravager should be up for raid split adds.
Reck and CDs should be up for the next man at arms/firemender wave.
Blade storm and ravager up for the next man at arms wave again.
Bladestorm and ravager up for the split raid adds. (Before tight squeeze)
Reck and all cds should be up for last wave of adds (after tight squeeze)
Boss should be dead after your 3rd reck or else he enrages and you die.

Now this is from the top of my head of what I did last night but I hope it helps.

[Deleted]

H

I've done mythic thogar and I've noted that anger management only causes you to have extra blade storms during portions of the fight when blade storm is not needed. I usually go with ravager.

My CD usage are as such.
All CDs popped for the first wave of adds.
Bladestorm and ravager can be reused for after random trains.
Bladestorm and ravager should be up for raid split adds.
Reck and CDs should be up for the next man at arms/firemender wave.
Blade storm and ravager up for the next man at arms wave again.
Bladestorm and ravager up for the split raid adds. (Before tight squeeze)
Reck and all cds should be up for last wave of adds (after tight squeeze)
Boss should be dead after your 3rd reck or else he enrages and you die.

Now this is from the top of my head of what I did last night but I hope it helps.

I agree with this. All my Thogar kills are 7min+ in which case imo Ravager is better. Might switch to AM if ever kill time is brought down to 6-something.

[Gromnak]

The only way ravager is better is if your raid has bad AOE or the people in your raid let you AOE for ranks. In a raid where everyone knows how to play and hit their buttons properly....ravager will barely do any damage because the adds will die in less than 5 seconds.

[Nautyless]

H

I've done mythic thogar and I've noted that anger management only causes you to have extra blade storms during portions of the fight when blade storm is not needed. I usually go with ravager.

My CD usage are as such.
All CDs popped for the first wave of adds.
Bladestorm and ravager can be reused for after random trains.
Bladestorm and ravager should be up for raid split adds.
Reck and CDs should be up for the next man at arms/firemender wave.
Blade storm and ravager up for the next man at arms wave again.
Bladestorm and ravager up for the split raid adds. (Before tight squeeze)
Reck and all cds should be up for last wave of adds (after tight squeeze)
Boss should be dead after your 3rd reck or else he enrages and you die.

Now this is from the top of my head of what I did last night but I hope it helps.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Thats my latest log where i got 93% Percentile.

[Xenryusho]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Thats my latest log where i got 93% Percentile.

@OP: I was at 86th percentile and I used the same talent set up as the poster quoted (DR/Ravager/Bladestorm/SD). Ravager is great for the AoE sections but also have several points where it can reliably run out its duration on Tho'gar alone so it's not just being held the whole fight. It differs between guilds but the two that stand out the most I would say are when you are waiting for the train to go by on 3 after the first few cannons come out and when you are waiting for the fires to drop on 2 and the man at arms to come up just before you do the loop around the (I think fourth) deforester. If you save ravager for the Man at arms wave you will be sorely disapointed at all the moving he's going to be doing. Just save use it on thogar and get the full duration on at least on target rather than one tick on three and then nothing else. It'll be up for the next man at arms either way. The rest will matter greatly on how your raid moves him.

On the pull I usually pre-pot charge, bloodthirst. At that point he gets pulled out of range to be positioned and I assess my procs. If I got SD but not enrage I'll wait till he's in position or about to be and use my second charge into a second bloodthirst, if I got enrage then I'll hit my SD asap and continue as normal. I try to dump my Raging blow stacks, blood surge stacks, ect before the man at arms drops. A second or two before he does I pop recklessness and berserker rage throw down ravage and move to DR the two guys on the side closest to the deforester toward the rest, I run back in and bladestorm. When that drops I try to use meat cleaver / execute to deal as much damage as possible and finish the man at arms. I usually open about 20k then hit 125kish~ by the time I leap through the fire.

During the first split I use ravager and bladestorm but save DR for when the second side comes along, I try to use my raging blows so that I have 4 stacks of meat clever by the time they come over and then I just raging blow, DR, Whirlwind, ect. They usually all die before I have to jump through another fire. Also try dumping your procs around the time the canons change targets, nothings worse than getting targetted and having to move out with two stacks of everything.

The most important thing to get used to on the fight is when you and cannot use zerkers rage. If you use it too early then you'll wind up having to thirst and hope for an enrage when adds drop. If you don't use it enough you'll lose potential dps during times when you get shafted by bloodthirst not critting.

The only way ravager is better is if your raid has bad AOE or the people in your raid let you AOE for ranks. In a raid where everyone knows how to play and hit their buttons properly....ravager will barely do any damage because the adds will die in less than 5 seconds.

The damage from your raid in total matches mine and I don't find the time the adds are up are anywhere close for you to get better use out of AM than ravager. Even before you died you used bs/dr a handful of times less than I would despite having the cooldown reduced by AM. Most times major events are timed pretty well with respects to eachother that AM really only results in wasted CD times, for instance if you get bladestorm (lets be generous and say) 20s early, you'll just be holding it for an extra 20s.

[Vonconrad]

1. AM is best because it allows your 2nd recklessness to be up for the 2nd wave of adds.

Seems like some of you may be forgetting this. The main benefit of AM is the Reck alignments, not the number of BS's you get.

[Nautyless]

Seems like some of you may be forgetting this. The main benefit of AM is the Reck alignments, not the number of BS's you get.

While it's true that vial and reck can line up together when you have AM. It's kind of abit wasted due to the fact that the critical portions of the fights are the waves of adds that come which lines up almost every minute. If you have AM, you get to use reck during the split wave adds which are not that important as compared to the waves with manatarms and firemenders. For the first wave of manatarms, you have the whole raid to converge upon them but during the 2nd wave with the deforestors you will have the ranged killing the gunnery sergeants and the melee killing the 2nd manatarms. You'll find that having reck up for that portion will def help you better at that portion. Your DPS for the 2nd manatarms wave would also be better since the ranged are on the gunnery sergeants, only the melee are on the adds so your blade storm would get more ticks in compared to at the start when everyone disintegrates them with all CDs.

In short, with AM you are inclined to use reck for the split wave adds which your entire DPS are killing easily already, without AM your reck is up for the 3rd set of waves which is the waves with man at arms which your recklessness would be better used on.

[Vonconrad]

I believe Gromnak's point was intended to point out what will net the most damage over the course of the entire fight, not what will get you the most man-at-arms damage. If your raid needs more man-at-arms damage, delaying reck/SB for Man-at-arms will be your best course of action. If you're simply looking to do the most overall damage, AM will net you the most. Again, it's not an issue of number of recks or BS's here, as most of the top parses are >7 min. This is an issue of cd alignment with boss mechanics.

OP, for progression, if you need more Man-at-Arms damage, take SB. AM will net you more overall damage when reck is used properly. However, ravager is not terribly far behind. It's just harder to time (on this specific fight), and with tank movement on a progression fight, not worth the unreliability.

[Nautyless]

No you want to do the most overall damage you still take ravager. You absolutely do not need to take siegebreaker on a fight that's filled with so many things to AOE down.

Ravager was used in the top 5 warriors who did operator because it's an extra AOE spell in a AOE centric fight.
if your tanks keep constantly moving out of your ravager either ask your tanks to not be extra twitchy with his/her movements or preplan his path.
There's one portion of the fight during the 3rd wave of man at arms that there is a lot of hectic movement, simplying plopping ravager smack in the middle of where they spawn is not going to maximise uptime, you will be moving In between those 2 tracks often, so you could plop ravager in the middle of the tracks where you think your tank is going to move through.
In simple words, the world is not going to care if you placed your ravager at the wrong place at the wrong time, learning to place your ravager at the optimal timing should be what a progression warrior in a progression guild should be doing if it maximizes his DPS

[Vonconrad]

1)SB was recommended if your raid needs more man-at-arms damage, not for the net damage.

2) Could you please provide some links to these top 5 logs in which they use ravager? I'm unable to link yet and can't show you, but I only see AM.

3)Most tanks aren't going to worry about your ravager (or mage's crystals) placements on progression on this fight. They're going to be more concerned with where they're heading to next.

Finally, in an attempt to help you understand this AM thing and Gromnak's point, ravager worked well for you because your raid's AoE was very poor. You and your demo lock made up nearly 30% of your add damage. Again, unable to link this from your log to show you, but WCL are very easy to navigate and you should be able to find this yourself.

[Nautyless]

I'll show the logs tonight after work. Alt tabbing with an iPhone at work while looking conspicuous is hard lol.

Yes I know the tanks don't care about your ravager/defile/crystal placement so that's why it's also your job as a DPS to understand where they are possibly going to go to so that when you plop your ravager it maximizes it.

I also see why my raids AOE can be poor. Usually if you want to have a higher AOE DPS for adds, someone has to be poor and someone has to be good. This will perhaps allow you to fully use all the ticks from your blade storm instead of just a like 2-3 ticks of blade storm before the adds disintegrate.

[Deleted]

Read some here about the discussion about AM. I would say the difference is if your progressing or farming. Why? Because on farm you wanna maximize meters ofc. But on progrogression thats not always the point. I mean sure take AM and use reckless on some useless split adds that dies fast anyway. But on progression you wanna help your raid kill the hard part of fight fast. And on Mythic Thogar that is the second Man of Arms pack. This is where you wanna reckless+ all cds+ bladestorm (and pot in some cases, we do it atleast).

By not taking AM and go ravager you get the following.
Pack 1 (Man at Arms #1) - All cds, pre pot still on.
Pack 2 (the split, where most guilds don't split) - bladestorm + ravager (hold on to reckless + vial).
Pack 3 (the adds that comes with the train from the other side of the split.) - no cds. Just normal aoe rotation. They die fast anyway.
Pack 4 (Man at Arm #2) - All cds. Ur raids dps might wanna second pot here cause its the hardest part of the fight where you also take dmg from fire and have to move a lot. There for you wanna kill the adds asap.
Pack 5 - Hold on to ur cps, coming another pack in 1-2 trains.
Pack 6 - Use whatever you have up (don't really recall whats up).

The last Man of Arms is easier raid surviving wise because you don't have fire debuff and have to move as much, that's why you wanna use cds on second one.

Like I said this is not to maximize ur own dps, this is to help your raid do the hard parts of the encounter faster. Which will make you kill the boss faster.
Also interrupt glyph is nice to interrupt the firemender for 6% more dmg.