Thought on "The State of the Game" and Lore's response.

[Gourmandise]

Recent mmo-champ post <here>
Battle.net post <here>

How do y'all feel about OP? Well-informed? Reasonable?

Do you feel Lore's response is knowledgeable as well? Reasonable?

I'm not in depth expert but I feel like Lore is being obtuse with the situation.
Maybe the more learned can clear things up for me :P

[Jasc]

they seem to act like they aren't aware that different classes are experiencing the pruning/CC changes differently. it bothers me when they complain that they get "mixed feedback". could it be that perhaps rogues play a very different game right now than warlocks?

I am virtually 100% in favor of the idea of pruning and all of the instances of it that I am aware of. Right now the worst parts of PVP for me are the ones where I am clearly having to fight against bullshit that is a holdover from Vanilla era (when are we going to be done with Druid snare shifting?) or classes that seem to have kept more or less all of their utility and seem to have given up nothing in exchange for it.

[Riistov]

I feel as if they are trying to justify many of the mistakes that were made as a result of the pruning. While it did give a a couple of the pure dps classes more differentiation between their specs (hunter, rogue) many of the hybrids (shaman, priest) were completely gutted.

It honestly felt like abilities were removed as a knee jerk reaction in the name of balance without any thought or care put in to how said classes would actually play and feel. While I feel that the game is in a solid state balance-wise, many of the abilities that were removed were what made these classes fun to play.

The other thing that should be said is that we are still in the first season of the expansion. First seasons always tend to have a lot of growing pains like this. It was the same from WoTLK-MoP, and I foresee WoD being no different. 6.2 will bring WoD season 2, which will be more enjoyable. At least that's how things have worked out in the past.

[Deleted]

I've seen quite a few well written posts during my decade of playing WoW, yet Blizzard failed to show any intent to make serious efforts to 'fix' PvP or invest time/money into it. I have no doubt that it will be the same this time. Like Lore said - don't expect changes, and the rest is PR bullsh*t.

[Pull My Finger]

My opinion is : TL, DR.

Infracted

[Riistov]

I've seen quite a few well written posts during my decade of playing WoW, yet Blizzard failed to show any intent to make serious efforts to 'fix' PvP or invest time/money into it. I have no doubt that it will be the same this time. Like Lore said - don't expect changes, and the rest is PR bullsh*t.

At least they are acknowledging us this time. I'm sure you remember the days of BC when we would be ignored for months

[Deleted]

Yeah, that means they've gotten better at PR and trying to convince player that they care about them. I'm from EU though, so nothing changed for us. Ignored forever and ever.

[Knolan]

He was right on the spot on the vast majority of stuff he said. I just disagree that he thinks that rogues cheap shot is fine, in the end he did sau that rogues are too tanky for their damage / control, which I agree, still the damage loss of the cheap shot is not really that big to be a drawback, every rogue spam that skill every 20s. He also didn't mention racials which has been a huge problem / discussion since WoD launch.

Finally, it really saddens me that Lore reply ended with a "don't expect big changes for 6.2."

[Gourmandise]

And of course:

While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played.

There're just so many problems with this.

[Haywire5714]

While a multi-rank 1 Gladiator might like having a few niche abilities they only use in specific circumstances, an entry-level PvP'er could be turned off by having to learn so much about other classes they've never played.

I don't think an entry level pvper cares about learning everything (at least in the beginning), they just want to run in with their dick out and press buttons. Imo they should make balancing and gameplay decisions around what's best for the top players.

[Kagthul]

(when are we going to be done with Druid snare shifting?)

When snares have a cooldown, aren't spammable, arent passively applied and aren't usable from any kind of range at all by a melee. That's when.

or classes that seem to have kept more or less all of their utility and seem to have given up nothing in exchange for it.

Agreed here. I play a warlock (aff since OG beta), R. Druid (since LK), and a new Hunter (BM).

Aff got absolutely gutted and hung by its own intestines by the ability prune.

R. Druid and Hunter still have massive toolkits that ends up being almost like they are playing a differnent game with a different set of rules. It's not OK for a warlock to have a direct counter to .. anything. Get snared? Too bad. Get rooted? Oh well. Get stunned? Screw you.

Meanwhile both my hunter and my druid have direct counters to almost everything. Get snared? Shift/Disengage (or Masters Call), get rooted? Same. Stunned? plenty of ways to deal with that. Guy on you? Blow him away and root him, then kite him. Warlock do that? Nope.

... and it's not like my Warlock does superior damage or anythying to compensate. Dem 3k Dot ticks every 2 seconds are BAWSE.

[Tya]

I play a resto druid and a destro warlock.

For my druid, the ability pruning was the biggest lie ever. I lost basically nothing.

For my destro warlock, well, I don't even know what destro is for anymore. Comedy value?

[Stormspellz]

spin and more of the same o stuff that we get all the time.

[Usagi Senshi]

One guy in that thread pretty much sums up my opinion of how I've seen Blizzard address PVP over the years:

Posted by Tacobeef
In the end, it always comes down to:

"Too late to fix it this time, pay us $50 and we'll take another crack at it"

And then you completely ignore all the feedback and try something way off on the other deep end and the same thing happens again.

"Too late to fix it this time, pay us $50 and we'll take another crack at it"

[butkus]

they arent going to address anything in 6.2. i mean look at the patch notes rogues hunters mages all getting buffs, its insane. another bad season and i think most will be done for good.

like the above poster said its the same song and dance with oh we'll fix it next xpac we promise we care while doing the complete opposite of what the pvp community wants.

[Gourmandise]

One guy in that thread pretty much sums up my opinion of how I've seen Blizzard address PVP over the years:

Posted by Tacobeef
In the end, it always comes down to:

"Too late to fix it this time, pay us $50 and we'll take another crack at it"

And then you completely ignore all the feedback and try something way off on the other deep end and the same thing happens again.

"Too late to fix it this time, pay us $50 and we'll take another crack at it"

I don't see why they like to reinvent the wheel when their previous "wheel" is usually a brick. Well, I guess I do, cause how you gonna keep your job if you make a perfect system that doesn't need any fixing? :P

[Terahertz]

And of course:



There're just so many problems with this.

I don't know who Lore exactly is, but his response there makes me think nobody at blizzard has ever attempted getting better at their class in PvP. What's the worst about his message is that it makes me think they'd rather change things around new players to make it easier for them to understand basic situations, while not promoting any further learning of the class. I mean, it's not actually a surprise since they've been doing it for so long already and has brought us to what PvP currently is. It's just that it annoys me they seemingly don't even want people to get better in the first place. It'd be the same if Riot were to remove certain advanced mechanics that aren't noticeable on the surface because their (newbie) players would have to do a little bit of research on the champions they play, or find stuff out through experience.

I don't think an entry level pvper cares about learning everything (at least in the beginning), they just want to run in with their dick out and press buttons. Imo they should make balancing and gameplay decisions around what's best for the top players.

Exactly. And that's not a bad thing either. Let them learn on their own pace. Let them complain on the forums. Let the community educate them at that point, nicely. They don't care about anything besides killing shit and complaining about "OP" classes. At which point, when classes are balanced appropriately around higher level gameplay, people can tell them that classes are indeed balanced. Which actually helps new players' mentally as well, knowing the class they play is indeed balanced would prevent them from mindlessly complaining about their class being shit. At least that's how I see it.

Anyways, not exactly related to this OP. Thanks for linking that bnet post as I wasn't even aware of it

[starkey]

Blizzard still use this

[Deleted]

lol "Dont expect any changes for 6.2"

So they know their gameplay is rubbish in PvP and boring, and they say they're not going to fix it.
Ok so I know I wont be renewing my sub in 6.2 then >.< They're so dumb.

Edit: If I weren't from EU and could post on those threads my question would be in reply to lore, "Why not?"
Why not expect any changes for 6.2? We know the pvp is not fun, they have acknowledged it needs work.... Why not try make fixes for 6.2?

Ive never before seen a company say "we agree that PvP in WoD is not the best it could be" and then "Don't expect any big changes in 6.2".

[rorian]

Sadly I think part of the problem is blizzard responding to feedback in ways that just haven't worked out and led us to a point in the game where the gameplay isn't fun. I think most players would take a little class imbalance if it meant that all classes were fun to play again.

WoTLK: "Game is too bursty all the time, give us more cooldowns so we can skillfully use cooldowns to get kills"
MoP: "Game is too dependent on cooldowns, remove all these cooldowns so we can skillfully line up CC to get kills"
WoD: "Game has too much CC, remove all this CC that was used to stop all the cooldowns that were used to skillfully get kills"
And here we are...

At this point just remove all the abilities and we will run around auto-attacking eachother until someone wins...at least it will be balanced right?