Procedually generated WoW? Could it work?

[Ballrug]

There is no way to tell a story in a generated world. It would work great for space sims where you have that vast world with recurring entities like cities, trading posts, space stations, and generically created missions that don't interconnect.

But for a MMO? Not so.

Dwarf Fortress says "incorrect."

This is also something I've kind of been expecting to happen for several years by now. It just seems like a natural fit given how Blizzard basically were one of the big companies to mainstream the whole "explore randomly generated dungeon" concept with the Diablo series. I think it could work pretty well in WoW as well - ideally not as a replacement for the on-rails story-driven content, but maybe as an extra. Imagine an Endless Proving Ground except instead of one room with waves of enemies, it's a randomly generated dungeon with endless floors like a Diablo Rift. I'd love that.

I can only guess that the reason they haven't tried it is because they can't get the engine to handle it, because it seems like a no-brainer for helping the "Bored at max level with no small group content" problem.

People are getting experiencing a (very low-quality) form of procedural content when they farm mobs, when they harvest resources, et cetera.

If you are looking for "more varied/interesting farming" then procedural content would be just the thing.

I would personally look forward to 5-mans that contained significantly varying creatures and layout.

Whether the engine could handle terrain that was created/assembled rather than just downloaded, who knows, but I doubt it's too difficult a task for a new expansion.

[Slant]

Good thinking here, OP, but the answer is a resounding NO, this wouldn't work for WoW, and here is why:

Procedural generation is an instanced OR single-player approach, i.e. an algorithm generates something for you in that single moment of time when your OWN game level is loading.

WoW is a MULTI-player game. So random generation doesn't work here by definition, because you and I have to share that world, i.e. it needs to look the same to both of us (and thousands/millions of other players as well), hence it can't be generated randomly.

You haven't watched the video, have you? He's explaining for like 5 minutes how procedural generation is exactly not "random" generation, because random equals "chaotic". They use math algorythms to attempt to generate the exact same environment everytime someone goes to a certain place. So every tree should in theory be in exactly the same spot when you go there one week after I've sent you a screenshot of that place.

The difference to WoW currently is that WoW developers hand craft the environment and then save it onto your (and mine) HDD. These guys are just creating a formula for your (or mine) computer to use to generate worlds and save that on our HDD. The actual creation of those worlds is done by our computers as needed based on those formulas. And if everything works out, you and I would see the exact same world and could share everything in it, because we would be using the same set of formulas.

The concept is interesting, but ST:O has kind of put me off procedurally created environments a bit. They relied too heavily on it and everything felt generic rather quickly.

[ttak82]

Dwarf Fortress says "incorrect."


People are getting experiencing a (very low-quality) form of procedural content when they farm mobs, when they harvest resources, et cetera.

If you are looking for "more varied/interesting farming" then procedural content would be just the thing.

I would personally look forward to 5-mans that contained significantly varying creatures and layout.

Whether the engine could handle terrain that was created/assembled rather than just downloaded, who knows, but I doubt it's too difficult a task for a new expansion.

Just wanted to add to the discussion and you have beat me to it (bolded part). But I will elaborate a bit more. Most of the posters are viewing procedural generation in terms of the world environment. the concept can be applied to creatures as well. Mobs can have different abilities and different damage schools - but then WoW would need to have combat mechanics that are based around this - for example spell school damage is irrelevant as resists are irrelevant. High physical damage will hurt clothies more etc etc.

In that sense, classes will have to be redesigned as well to make it interesting.

Eg.
Instance 1: an elemental miniboss has 2 abilities, one is a dot and one is a direct damage spell (massive damage).
If your class/group has some damage mitigation ability, well you counter the second spell.

Instance 2: same elemental miniboss has 2 abilities, one is a dot and one is a direct damage spell that does 25% damage but now stuns you for a long time.
If your class/group has a stun break. Thats fine. Or if you are an orc, its alright, but not much

Instance 3: an elemental miniboss has 2 abilities, one is aoe ground spell and one is a direct damage spell that does 50% damage but now fears you and makes u run away.
If your class/group has a fear counter - you're ok.

In Wow, PG would still require instancing - solo, dungeon or raid.

One system that can be easily procedural - albeit phased, is pet battles - aka random pet model - random pet type and then further randomized pet abilities - most 3v3 battles will have one pet you cant completely counter

[Deleted]

Doesn't it already work this way for Diablo ?
Maybe not everything can be rng generated, but why not have dungeons and caves created this way ?

[Sansnom]

I would like to see WoW one day be lore sized. Like comparable to the size of mars. Right now WoW could essentially fit inside a major city which isn't very large. Would you like to see WoW become that large? Could procedually generated world for WoW work?

No. While many of the elements can be procedurally generated, you cannot make a game like WoW work entirely like that. Procedural generation is not new. Fractals is an example.

The problem is that there are events that needs to happen in a set order. They are scripted. So you do need that manual element. You need that element of control. Just as you cannot really have a computer write a book, you cannot have the computer to write out the story of the game.

[Etrock08]

I think what would work would be some sort of Generated 5 man dungeon content. Have a pool of 30-40 different bosses and a ton of sections that can be generated together to form random 5 man experiences. There would still be the story driven 5 mans that would further things like the legendary quests. But the generated 5 man dungeons could be Bloodborne Style (ie the lore could be that we are exploring a set of large and vast ancient ruins and mapping them out) These generated dungeons would contain 3 bosses at random, and the bosses would drop some gear but the main focus could be the bosses dropping other items, such as experience potions, sums of gold, Heirloom upgrade artifacts, potions, gems, runes, mounts, toys, transmog gear, rep items, Sections of Artifacts that when combined with others allow you to create part of a dungeon set of gear complete with some simple set bonuses.

[Sunnydruid]

It could very well work for WoW, however the shear amount of time and resources it would take for the dev team to make it happen is astronomical.

I loved listening to this dev though, he sounded and looked so excited to talk about his game. You hardly ever see that anymore, it's always the same shit from developers told in some half ass 'idgaf' voice. This guy showed emotion, he looked like he wanted to grab the interviewer and put him in front of the game and let him play. That's passion right there. We need more people like him to dev games.

[Tharkkun]

Wow can't be 100% procedurally generated, but what about incorporated procedurally generated zones?

The zone design ties directly into the quest lines and lore. I don't think it would fit very well unless you're designing a zone strictly for grinding. This would work back in EQ 1 where there wasn't quests or story. Just npcs and terrain.

[Kantoro]

With today's average gamer? Not a chance. Someone would find a way to ruin the game within minutes and 1/2 the population would adopt it. The world would be destroyed inside of 3 days, tops.

Your avg gamer is a total jerk, it's why PvP exists.

[Deleted]

I dont think the engine would be capable of that. I dont believe blizzard is planning to actually evolve world of warcraft anymore, so we never will see generated content, or even user driven content. Blizzards theme park is not even a voxel engine yet, the step to computer generated content based on fractals is just one step ahead.

Blizzard could use those technologies themself to actually create continents to make their work more easy. I wont wonder if they already autogenerate the landscapes based on fractals, and fill it with painted life afterwards.

Blizzard seems too conservative to me to be able to make a game thats as innovative as like Landmark or the example from the OP.

[I Push Buttons]

Doesn't it already work this way for Diablo ?
Maybe not everything can be rng generated, but why not have dungeons and caves created this way ?

I don't think WoW players can take much more RNG. Plus the structure of things now is what allows players to improve... The first time you get in there you are raging about a boss and its OP mechanics... Then later after doing it a couple times and getting some gear you are running circles around it. That can't happen, at least to the same degree, if the content is procedural generated content and different every time.

I personally would be ok with having it IN ADDITION to what is already there, perhaps for groups and solo or something... But I wouldn't want it instead of dungeons or raiding.

[aeuhe4yxzhds]

You seriously underestimate how cool procedurally generated content can be.

And you underestimate how shitty it can be, having to regenerate thousands of times to get something randomly that is alright.

[Ballrug]

And you underestimate how shitty it can be, having to regenerate thousands of times to get something randomly that is alright.

As someone who wrote his first significant game with procedurally-generated terrain back in 1991, and who's played games that used that technology even longer than that, I'm going to stick with my own experience-based opinion.

[ttak82]

As someone who wrote his first significant game with procedurally-generated terrain back in 1991, and who's played games that used that technology even longer than that, I'm going to stick with my own experience-based opinion.

What game(s) might those be? PM me if you want.