Vegetarianism

[belfpala]

Can I ask where are you getting your information from?

Translate that to Calories per kg per liter of water.

[Moonlily]

This is just false, and it is exactly what I initially commented on. There were ZERO negative comments about vegans or vegetarians prior to Moonlilly bringing in the full onslaught of Vegan rhetoric. There are no preachy meat eaters, no one is campaigning for people to eat more meat. If vegetarians want to eat less meat, awesome, more meat for everyone else. No one is "against" vegetarians. Every comment prior to Moonlilly's initial comment was either outright supportive or of the "not my thing, but you do you" variety.

There is no "eat more meat" movement. There are only people tired of listening to the preaching and condescension of the self-righteous. Being vegan is like joining a gym. If you do it for you, and it works for you awesome! Everyone is cool with that. But if you join a gym, then start telling everyone about your workouts, and posting how many reps you did at the gym on Facebook, and complaining about fat people, and arguing in every internet forum about how everyone else is harming the economy by being fat, then yeah, people are going to dislike you. It's not because you joined a gym, it's because you're a pompous asshole.

How was my comment harmful to this thread? I just shared my experience with vegetarianism, did you get offended by the silly phrases that we have to deal with every day? I called them hateful and ignorant comments because that's what they are, you've seen how aggressive people have been answering, someone even actually stated he hates vegetarians. Ignorant not as an insult but as someone who lacks knowledge on the matter. Again, been proven many times by the comments in this thread. I was really just having a laugh at those "anti-veg stereotypes" because it really is something that people say, at first I used to get upset about it, but now I just find them hilarious :P

I don't have a problem with people who eat meat as long as they respect my choices, if they start insulting me and my beliefs and pulling statements out of their ass they I will get involved. Wouldn't you? What if I stated "Meat eaters are all obese, sick sadists". Wouldn't you react to that?

[Charge me Doctor]

How was my comment harmful to this thread? I just shared my experience with vegetarianism, did you get offended by the silly phrases that we have to deal with every day? I called them hateful and ignorant comments because that's what they are

how is "bacon ftw" is hateful and ignorant comment? It still boggles my mind, i just don't follow this logic.

[Moonlily]

Translate that to Calories per kg per liter of water.

Soybeans: 4460Kcal/Kg
Brown Rice: 3700Kcal/Kg
Corn: 3650Kcal/Kg
Wheat: 3390Kcal/Kg
Beef (Brisket): 2770Kcal/Kg
Chicken: 2190Kcal/Kg
Pork (chops): 1710Kcal/Kg
Potatoes: 770Kcal/Kg

Corn: 5.61Kcal/L
Wheat: 3.76Kcal/L
Brown Rice: 2.31Kcal/L
Soybeans: 2.23Kcal/L
Potatoes: 1.22Kcal/L
Chicken: 0.62Kcal/L
Pork (chops): 0.28Kcal/L
Beef (Brisket): 0.06Kcal/L

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how is "bacon ftw" is hateful and ignorant comment? It still boggles my mind, i just don't follow this logic.

People got nothing clever to say so they come up with silly stuff like that? I don't know, I can't understand the logic behind those comments either. Also, you see bacon in bacon, I see a living being that was killed and you are making fun of it. Eat your meat if you wish but atleast give some respect for those who had to give up their life so that you could fill your tummy.

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Soybeans: 4460Kcal/Kg
Brown Rice: 3700Kcal/Kg
Corn: 3650Kcal/Kg
Wheat: 3390Kcal/Kg
Beef (Brisket): 2770Kcal/Kg
Chicken: 2190Kcal/Kg
Pork (chops): 1710Kcal/Kg
Potatoes: 770Kcal/Kg

Corn: 5.61Kcal/L
Wheat: 3.76Kcal/L
Brown Rice: 2.31Kcal/L
Soybeans: 2.23Kcal/L
Potatoes: 1.22Kcal/L
Chicken: 0.62Kcal/L
Pork (chops): 0.28Kcal/L
Beef (Brisket): 0.06Kcal/L

I know this is coming next so here is the amount of protein per Kg per Liters

Soybeans: 360g/Kg
Chicken: 260g/Kg
Beef: 250g/Kg
Pork (chops): 220g/Kg
Wheat: 140g/Kg
Corn: 90g/Kg
Brown Rice: 80g/Kg
Potatoes: 20g/Kg

Soybeans: 0.18g/L
Wheat: 0.15g/L
Corn: 0.13g/L
Chicken: 0.08g/L
Brown Rice: 0.05g/L
Pork (chops): 0.03g/L
Potatoes: 0.03g/L
Beef: 0.005g/L

Feel free to check my calculations, I'm not the best at math, but more or less you should get similar results.

[belfpala]

I don't feel like checking your calculations, but yours show that the claim made above is pretty much true. Meat is between 1 and 2 orders of magnitude less efficient, as measured by water used, than the veg.

Adding before you go for it, protein wasn't the measure, nor the claim made.

[Kasierith]

Feel free to check my calculations, I'm not the best at math, but more or less you should get similar results.

And corrections for volume produced per year? And controlling for milk cows vs produce? Another thing to consider. Free range cattle as well as contained cattle to lesser degrees have substantial portions of their diet on food that is not produced in other areas; the concept that you grow grain to feet cattle to the exclusion of other things doesn't really follow unless they're completely contained, which is a really bad way to do things to begin with since incorporating cattle into crop rotations is such an efficient means of maintaining cycles.

In other words, the amount of water per cattle does not accurately represent the amount that actually goes into them.

And before you go on about the dangers of free range cattle and its impact on rainforests... the US currently underutilizes its arable land. The figures that 25% of the US is already pasturized land does not account for the fact that a minority of that is in active use, because responsible farming utilizes crop rotations since cows reduce the amount of imported nitrates needed to maintain the soil if you switch them between crops. As for the rainforests being cleared, it is something that I would agree is extremely devastating.

[enragedgorilla]

I tried it for a period of time and let me suggest something that could help you with "sticking to it"

Indian Food (Or the style anyway)

A good portion of the Indian society is vegetarian and have been for hundreds if not thousands of years.
They have textures and flavors DOWN pat.

I didn't mind it while I was doing it (lasted a year) but ...Jack in the Box came out with the Bacon Colossus burger and ...that is all it took.
I was sicker than a dog but...it was worth every moment spent in the bathroom after.

I actually gained weight being a vegetarian (NOT vegan) only a couple pounds but it amused me.

[Kasierith]

I tried it for a period of time and let me suggest something that could help you with "sticking to it"

Indian Food (Or the style anyway)

A good portion of the Indian society is vegetarian and have been for hundreds if not thousands of years.
They have textures and flavors DOWN pat.

I didn't mind it while I was doing it (lasted a year) but ...Jack in the Box came out with the Bacon Colossus burger and ...that is all it took.
I was sicker than a dog but...it was worth every moment spent in the bathroom after.

I actually gained weight being a vegetarian (NOT vegan) only a couple pounds but it amused me.

I don't really think that getting sicker from switching from a controlled diet to high fat high carb fast food has anything to do with readding meat to your diet in and of itself.

[Deleted]

I have recently made the switch to cutting meat out of my diet. I didn't do it for the animals or to help save the environment. I did for a personal reason to see if I can do it for myself personally. Sort of like quitting cigarettes. I eat tons of leafy greens and fruits along with some nuts and seeds with hearty beans. I typically drink water almond/cashew milk or some type of juice. I have noticed my body have quite some positive changes. I have more energy, overal complexion is brighter, hair and eyes are softer. I rest better and my body doesn't fatigue as quickly. Even my bowel movements have seem to improve.

I have been vegetarian for about 2 months now and have noticed certain things especially around people who don't understand my life choice. Going out to eat with friends can be a little weird. Some people think it's weird or wrong to do. I feel like it's socially misunderstood.

Would any of you guys try it out for a certain period of time?

Do you care for it?

Do you think it's inpratical?

I think the changes you are feeling have nothing to do with you becoming a vegetarian, more like you cut down most of the junk food. I'm feeling great as well since I started to eat healthy and going to the gym 4 times a week with a personal trainer and a personalized program, I started 2 months ago as well. I eat a lot of chicken breasts also beef and fish, I eat around 400gr of meat a day and I've lost 12kg for 7 weeks. I have far more energy than before, better skin, better sleep, better blood sugar, perfect blood pressure, low cholesterol, better mood etc. So in reality it is not down to being vegetarian or not being one, but rather the quality of the food you ingest.
Also, I'm pretty sure that there are some critically important amino acids for the brain that can't be found anywhere else but meat/fish/eggs, so in that sense I think being a vegetarian is more like depriving yourself from a really healthy meal.

[Deleted]

How was my comment harmful to this thread? I just shared my experience with vegetarianism...

I don't have a problem with people who eat meat as long as they respect my choices, if they start insulting me and my beliefs and pulling statements out of their ass they I will get involved. Wouldn't you? What if I stated "Meat eaters are all obese, sick sadists". Wouldn't you react to that?

Your comment was harmful in that it was precisely what turned this thread into what it is now. Go back and read the first page prior to your comment. There is not a single comment attacking vegetarians. No one was attacking your beliefs. There are a few comments about liking meat, there are a few comments that the OP was likely feeling better due to the placebo effect, but for the most part it was just people saying "that's great if it works for you".

After your comment is when people got annoyed, and it was precisely for the reasons I stated. Your comment was not "just sharing your experience", it was perpetuating an "us vs. them" mentality that permeates most cult-ish lifestyle choices.

I made the switch for ethical reasons, but after learning more about it I can definitely say that I'm also Vegan for my health and for the environment.

This is preachy and condescending. It is a statement implying that people that have not made your choice are unconcerned with ethics, their health, or the environment.

Eating meat is just another habit, you may struggle the first few weeks but then it becomes normal. For all of you saying that vegetarian food tastes like crap...

This is a deliberately passive aggressive attack on people that don't share your viewpoint. You're stating that they don't actually like what they think they like, it's just a habit they could break if they tried, and the problem is they just haven't tried hard enough.

Your feeling better is not a placebo effect, it is well known that a whole food plant based diet can do wonders to our body, if you have doubts checkout Nutritionfacts.org

This is a link to a biased website, run by a single person cherry picking facts to promote an agenda. It is not a source for finding legitimate information, it's a source for finding skewed information that promotes insular thinking.

Oh and as I'm sure you know by now get ready to get a wave of hateful, ignorant comments like...

And this is the mother of all "us vs. them" challenges. You are putting words into other people's mouths deliberately promoting a conflict.

I have absolutely no problem with eating vegetarian foods. I would wager quite firmly that no one "hates" vegetarians because of their food choices. As I said previously, they dislike vegetarians because of everything I've outlined above. No one was insulting vegetarians or their beliefs, yet you still felt compelled to inform everyone why they were wrong. That yours was the superior ethical, health, and environmental choice, and that they could change if only they tried harder. You ask how I would react to it if you said "Meat eaters are all obese, sick sadists", well what I'm trying to point out is that is essentially what you did. The fact that you didn't do it directly, doesn't put you in a more morally defensible position though.

I'm not arguing with you about your beliefs, I'm just trying to make you see how your post, and posts like it, actually do significantly more harm than good in terms of encouraging people to respect your choices. If that is what you want, then you first have to offer the same and respect the choices of others. No one wants to be preached at, so if you keep doing what works for you, and let others keep doing what works for them, then threads like this would be much friendlier.

[Charge me Doctor]

People got nothing clever to say so they come up with silly stuff like that? I don't know, I can't understand the logic behind those comments either. Also, you see bacon in bacon, I see a living being that was killed and you are making fun of it. Eat your meat if you wish but atleast give some respect for those who had to give up their life so that you could fill your tummy.

Still i don't follow your logic of "bacon ftw" being offensive.
I was born and risen on a farm, i used to breed rabbits, pigs, chicken, duck and cows, hunt quails. Not only breed and nurture them but also kill and skin then before cooking. We also had cats and dogs, mainly to hunt rodents and guard. One of things i've learned from this lifestyle is that you shouldn't associate with animals that you are going to eat, and i do not understand people who are not exposed to all of this and still think killing things that you breed for food is immoral. If you would work with pigs that you grow for food you would know that they don't need your respect, they don't give a fuck about you, and you shouldn't feel bad for eating meat because eating meat is crucial for your health. There is zero reason to give any "respect" for an animal that was born and killed only with one reason - to "fill your tummy", it served its purpose and there is nothing immoral in it. It's much easier to alienate yourself from where the meat goes, and you should, because it's unnecessary to cry over each pig that was killed for production.

And for contrast, i also grown potatoes, radish, cucumbers, tomatoes, berries, carrots, etc, and used to pick wild berries, mushrooms, used to fish and, off course, trade.

Honestly, your first post in this thread made you to look very full of yourself and further conversation doesn't really help

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snip

You also have to include all the bones and 3rd sort meat products that is made from cattle, not all meat goes for supermarkets and your plate. It's more complicated than this

[Moonlily]

I think the changes you are feeling have nothing to do with you becoming a vegetarian, more like you cut down most of the junk food. I'm feeling great as well since I started to eat healthy and going to the gym 4 times a week with a personal trainer and a personalized program, I started 2 months ago as well. I eat a lot of chicken breasts also beef and fish, I eat around 400gr of meat a day and I've lost 12kg for 7 weeks. I have far more energy than before, better skin, better sleep, better blood sugar, perfect blood pressure, low cholesterol, better mood etc. So in reality it is not down to being vegetarian or not being one, but rather the quality of the food you ingest.
Also, I'm pretty sure that there are some critically important amino acids for the brain that can't be found anywhere else but meat/fish/eggs, so in that sense I think being a vegetarian is more like depriving yourself from a really healthy meal.

That is very true, like I said earlier you can be a healthy/unhealthy meateater or a healthy/unhealthy vegetarian/vegan. Congratz on improving your health
About the amino acids, there are a few plant sources that are complete proteins, meaning that they contain all the essential amino acids, like soy and quinoa. But you don't necessarily have to get all your amino acids from a single source, for example a meal containing rice and beans also gives all the amino acids you need.

[Deleted]

Did you read this thread? I didn't notice any preachy vegetarians. I noticed several, "hur hur, more meat for me!" people.

Go back and read the first page, prior to the comment I was referring to. That is not what you will find at all. There is no meat eating lobbying group trying to keep vegetarians down. Vegetarians set themselves up on a moral pedestal, challenge people to knock them off, then get upset when that's exactly what happens.


As an unrelated aside, I do agree with the vegetarians here that raising animals for food is less efficient. It seems like some are debating this, but it's not really a point of contention. We can not viably have everyone on the planet consuming meat at the rate North America currently does. You'd be hard-pressed to find a study that says you can. That being said, we also can't support the planet with purely organic, non-gmo crops either. So we're going to have to come to something of a compromise eventually.

[Moonlily]

Your comment was harmful in that it was precisely what turned this thread into what it is now...

Look penguinzx, I'm sorry that's how you've perceived my comment, unfortunately the internet is never the best place for discussion as you can't really express your nuances fully. It was never my intention to insult anyone and I apologize if anyone felt insulted or attacked by my comment. I was expressing my joy for this lifestyle and sharing some funny anecdotes. That's all.

Vegetarians shout "I'm on this amazing lifestyle, you should check it out!" Most people perceive it as preaching and an attack because it goes against your own personal life. There are pros and cons to both, but of course both of us will try to defend it to death because that's what we believe in.
Of course civilized discussions are not always possible as there are aggressive people in both "groups". I also dislike having to divide into "us and them", but it's hard to have a conversation on this subject without doing some separation as there clearly are two sides. That's why we should meet in the middle and try to do some objective discussion, which is what I've been trying to do in this thread. Again, if you have perceived it as something other than that, I apologize.

[Deleted]

I'm a vegetarian.

I do miss the taste of meat, red meat especially. Nothing was better than ordering a great steak when out for a meal.

I've made the change for a healthier lifestyle, and i also don't support the meat trade.
Coming across similar social stigma or people making silly remarks or jokes amongst the friendship group about me being a vegetarian, or shoving a piece of meat in my face. Expected, boring behaviour.

[Deleted]

Danish and proud


With 145.9 kg (321.7 lb) of meat per person consumed in 2002, Denmark has the highest consumption of meat per person of any country in the world

[Afrospinach]

There is no "eat more meat" movement.

Yes, only in our minds, try and gorge on steak I dare you Nothing will fill you up faster!

[Deleted]

Look penguinzx, I'm sorry that's how you've perceived my comment, unfortunately the internet is never the best place for discussion as you can't really express your nuances fully. It was never my intention to insult anyone and I apologize if anyone felt insulted or attacked by my comment. I was expressing my joy for this lifestyle and sharing some funny anecdotes. That's all.

Vegetarians shout "I'm on this amazing lifestyle, you should check it out!" Most people perceive it as preaching and an attack because it goes against your own personal life. There are pros and cons to both, but of course both of us will try to defend it to death because that's what we believe in.
Of course civilized discussions are not always possible as there are aggressive people in both "groups". I also dislike having to divide into "us and them", but it's hard to have a conversation on this subject without doing some separation as there clearly are two sides. That's why we should meet in the middle and try to do some objective discussion, which is what I've been trying to do in this thread. Again, if you have perceived it as something other than that, I apologize.

Let me help you to understand, what all the other people who are sitting at a dining table with Vegetarians / Vegans can't hear anymore. Because every 2nd time you hear things like this:

I sleep better at night knowing that I didn't have to kill anyone to feed myself and that my diet has got a much lower impact on the environment. This works better for ME, if you decide not to do it that's up to you, but obviously since I believe in my choices I'm happy when I hear that someone else has decided to look into this lifestyle. ....


You live your life as a Vegetarian and you're happy with it? Fine ... but don't jump on a high moral horse, because you've have the opinion, that your footprint on this earth may be smaller than the ones, who eat meat.

In 80+ years we won't have this conversation, about the moral superiority of Vegetarianism. Because by then we all eat Soylent Green, if the human reproduction rate stays the same.

[belfpala]

Go back and read the first page, prior to the comment I was referring to. That is not what you will find at all. There is no meat eating lobbying group trying to keep vegetarians down. Vegetarians set themselves up on a moral pedestal, challenge people to knock them off, then get upset when that's exactly what happens.

As an unrelated aside, I do agree with the vegetarians here that raising animals for food is less efficient. It seems like some are debating this, but it's not really a point of contention.

In my first post in this thread, I said I'm mostly vegetarian but I don't follow any strict rules. My comment directed at the, "hur hur, more meat for me" crowd, exactly as it was written. I eat meat too, just less than most people around me.

i.e., we're not arguing at all. The true aside is that gmo etc. is a different conversation.

[Deleted]

"I stopped eating burgers and pizza and got better, so the logical conclusion is that meat is bad for you !"

That's what I got out of OP and it doesn't seem to make any sense ?

EDIT : However, you eating overally healthier is a good thing, don't get me wrong. Just that healthier != no meat.