The Issue Behind the Social Justice Movement

[GodlyBob]

I've been grappling with some of the issues relating to the Social Justice Movement for a while now. I want to say that I'm a part of it because its professed ideals align with my own. I emphatically believe that all people are inherently equal and we should treat each other as such. However, the actual movement falls far from those lofty goals. We have people who are "triggered" by things like "thin privilege" which is just ridiculous. Worst of all, Social Justice conflates actual issues regarding race and gender to complete and utter nonsense and gives a perceived validity to things like the MRM and anti-feminism. On my morning commute though, I think I realized what exactly went wrong with the social justice movement.

It all comes down to multiculturalism and cultural-relativism, two principals that are ostensibly at the core of social justice. Multiculturalism is an incredibly important concept for a globalized society, and we are all but resigned to it in the age of the internet. Cultural relativism is an anthropological concept that no culture is superior to another, they are just different. Complex societies are not better than simple ones because culture, like evolution, is not a linear progression.This is an important notion whose basis is to help address personal bias. If you are studying a people and just think they're savages and you're better than them, your observations and conclusions will be rife with bias. If however, you regard these people as peers, you're more likely to be able to witness, participate, and understand things that would otherwise have been unnoticeable from your high horse.

How does this relate to social justice? Social justice uses cultural relativism the same way social Darwinism uses evolution. In a word, poorly. A social justice warrior (god I hate that term, but I'll use it to save time) will use the idea that cultures are all equal and apply it to their own personal beliefs. The obvious problem, is that the entire concept is supposed to be used to address and downplay your own personal biases, but the SJW is using it instead to reinforce their biases. Worse still, they take it a step further and put their personal biases above those of others, mentally putting every concept on a level playing field, but then bringing stilts for themself.

Also of note, is that by equating all these biases, slights, and ideas, you lose all concept of scale. Being called fat makes you feel bad, but it is nowhere near as bad as being called a nigger. Being called a nigger is not nearly as bad as being beaten for being a Muslim. Social Justice makes every bad situation equally bad, and this does a severe disservice to those being greatly disparaged.

The other side of the issue is no better, the only difference is that they don't bother with the pretense of equality. To say that social justice has been poorly handled does not mean that the issues they deign to bring to light do not exist. There is rampant racism, misogyny, and other social issues plaguing our society. It's just that calling somebody a misogynist these days is getting to be like calling somebody a Nazi; many people will think of it as a blatant exaggeration with the obvious harm that misogynists tend to be a lot more common than Nazis these days.

TLDR: a SJW values equality, but ends up making every slight equally bad. The end result, is we hear them cry misogynist and racist so often we become numb to the idea that these concepts actually do exist.

[Deleted]

I thought we were done with the bullshit political correctness of the 90's.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I've been grappling with some of the issues relating to the Social Justice Movement for a while now. I want to say that I'm a part of it because its professed ideals align with my own. I emphatically believe that all people are inherently equal and we should treat each other as such. However, the actual movement falls far from those lofty goals. We have people who are "triggered" by things like "thin privilege" which is just ridiculous. Worst of all, Social Justice conflates actual issues regarding race and gender to complete and utter nonsense and gives a perceived validity to things like the MRM and anti-feminism. On my morning commute though, I think I realized what exactly went wrong with the social justice movement.

It all comes down to multiculturalism and cultural-relativism, two principals that are ostensibly at the core of social justice. Multiculturalism is an incredibly important concept for a globalized society, and we are all but resigned to it in the age of the internet. Cultural relativism is an anthropological concept that no culture is superior to another, they are just different. Complex societies are not better than simple ones because culture, like evolution, is not a linear progression.This is an important notion whose basis is to help address personal bias. If you are studying a people and just think they're savages and you're better than them, your observations and conclusions will be rife with bias. If however, you regard these people as peers, you're more likely to be able to witness, participate, and understand things that would otherwise have been unnoticeable from your high horse.

How does this relate to social justice? Social justice uses cultural relativism the same way social Darwinism uses evolution. In a word, poorly. A social justice warrior (god I hate that term, but I'll use it to save time) will use the idea that cultures are all equal and apply it to their own personal beliefs. The obvious problem, is that the entire concept is supposed to be used to address and downplay your own personal biases, but the SJW is using it instead to reinforce their biases. Worse still, they take it a step further and put their personal biases above those of others, mentally putting every concept on a level playing field, but then bringing stilts for themself.

Also of note, is that by equating all these biases, slights, and ideas, you lose all concept of scale. Being called fat makes you feel bad, but it is nowhere near as bad as being called a nigger. Being called a nigger is not nearly as bad as being beaten for being a Muslim. Social Justice makes every bad situation equally bad, and this does a severe disservice to those being greatly disparaged.

The other side of the issue is no better, the only difference is that they don't bother with the pretense of equality. To say that social justice has been poorly handled does not mean that the issues they deign to bring to light do not exist. There is rampant racism, misogyny, and other social issues plaguing our society. It's just that calling somebody a misogynist these days is getting to be like calling somebody a Nazi; many people will think of it as a blatant exaggeration with the obvious harm that misogynists tend to be a lot more common than Nazis these days.

TLDR: a SJW values equality, but ends up making every slight equally bad. The end result, is we hear them cry misogynist and racist so often we become numb to the idea that these concepts actually do exist.

Really simple if you stop to worry about every uninformed opinion, and every stupid ass overly simplified label, and what is cool or popular, then you sure as shit shouldn't consider yourself SJW, or anything else that may or may not be cool under unfavorable conditions.

To me the biggest fucking frauds are the people that worry more about being seen looking good, or doing something productive, than actually doing it, bot SJW and Anti SJW.

If you fucking care about social issues, YOU NEED TO DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER to fight for them, equality for people of Race, Gender, or Orientation. Fuck the politics, fuck the simple ideologies that can be wrong any time, think of what your CORE beliefs are, and ACT in every way you can accordingly.

[Wilian]

The issue behind social justice movement is that they hide behind social issues to push authoritarian agenda, censorship and thought control so things would be shaped as they see fit.

[Tradewind]

The issue with SJW's is that they will turn on one another at the drop of a hat and are insanely hypocritical.

Not to mention their naive outlook on the world.

[Doctor Amadeus]

The issue behind social justice movement is that they hide behind social issues to push authoritarian agenda, censorship and thought control so things would be shaped as they see fit.

Yeah, you're god damn right for once, I DO think a bakery that is licences to provide goods to the public should be FORCED out of business, yes I DO believe if you get caught being a racist promoting racism that should in addition to any other crime be considered, Yes I do believe if you have backwards as fuck ideas about women and what they should be from your Traditionalist point of view or any other, that if you ACT on that, you should be fired, laughed at or generally shunned by decent society.


Yes, OMFG, I am extreme, and No I don't think someones IDEOLOGY or OPINION, import than how human beings born different should be treated.

[Independent voter]

Yes, you should practice good manners. In the areas where people tend to carry guns, everyone has good manners. Good manners, like your mom taught you would go a long way. Do you really need to say something that ruins someone's day?

[Doctor Amadeus]

The issue with SJW's is that they will turn on one another at the drop of a hat and are insanely hypocritical.

Not to mention their naive outlook on the world.

Yeah, because everybody should conform to a cult like group think where everybody that subscribes to an idea, should clap along with every single stitch of what someone else says because they happen to agree on some things.

Nah, Naive is shitting your pants and sitting in it, and saying "Well, I am sitting in shit, I am going to shit again, so why clean it up" Anti SJW nonsense.

[Adam Jensen]

I use to consider myself a feminist

Then feminists went all crazy, screaming about bullshit like signs on bathroom stalls or the use of pink on girl's toys or other trivial stupid things that don't mean jack shit.

So now I consider myself an egaltarian. I believe that there are differences in genders, that both genders have merit and both genders require equality under the law.

[TheTaurenOrc]

To be honest most of the issues you make note of are from Tumblr or are at least most prolific there. And lets face it Tumblr is for teenagers and college aged women.

[Spectral]

Even applied in a more reasonable way than what we see on the internet, I simply don't identify social justice as an overarching positive goal as the term is typically used. I just don't favor radical egalitarianism. I don't see a society with unequal outcomes for individuals or groups as something that needs to be rectified through government policy.

In practice, I find that most people who use the term "social justice" as a positive thing are essentially just neo-Marxists that don't want to identify as such because the term has negative connotations.

[Tradewind]

Yeah, because everybody should conform to a cult like group think where everybody that subscribes to an idea, should clap along with every single stitch of what someone else says because they happen to agree on some things.

Nah, Naive is shitting your pants and sitting in it, and saying "Well, I am sitting in shit, I am going to shit again, so why clean it up" Anti SJW nonsense.

You jump off the deep end far too easily...usually hanging on to multiple strawmen.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Without the sjw movement I would be bored as fuck, so easy to troll them and they are some of the biggest hypocrites ever


Edit: Damn Tradewind, beat me to it.

[Mister Cheese]

Too lazy to explain what I think so I'll let this moron do it.

[Vanyali]

You jump off the deep end far too easily...usually hanging on to multiple strawmen.

...and now i'm just seeing a dude hanging off a daisy chain of strawmen.

thanks, tradewind.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Good read OP, well thought out.

[Wilian]

Yeah, you're god damn right for once, I DO think a bakery that is licences to provide goods to the public should be FORCED out of business, yes I DO believe if you get caught being a racist promoting racism that should in addition to any other crime be considered, Yes I do believe if you have backwards as fuck ideas about women and what they should be from your Traditionalist point of view or any other, that if you ACT on that, you should be fired, laughed at or generally shunned by decent society.


Yes, OMFG, I am extreme, and No I don't think someones IDEOLOGY or OPINION, import than how human beings born different should be treated.

I'm trying to deconstruct that post to give it a coherent answer but I'm sorry I just can't, not without massive headache.

[Doctor Amadeus]

You jump off the deep end far too easily...usually hanging on to multiple strawmen.

No, not really, I just go with there the chain of logic and reason dictate, if you find racism, sexism or homophobic shit funny, or ok, then you are likely to follow the logic sooner or later, that devaluing other peoples lives based on race, gender, and orientation are ok.


Most people don't wake up or are born hating people like that, they adopt ideology slowly but gradually over time. Saying you aren't a racist, or you ARE a feminist doesn't preclude you from being a racist,or sexist. Just as being a race, sex or gay, doesn't preclude you from being racist against your same race, or sexist against your own gender or hateful of other gay people.

[Vanyali]

No, not really, I just go with there the chain of logic and reason dictate, if you find racism, sexism or homophobic shit funny, or ok, then you are likely to follow the logic sooner or later, that devaluing other peoples lives based on race, gender, and orientation are ok.


Most people don't wake up or are born hating people like that, they adopt ideology slowly but gradually over time. Saying you aren't a racist, or you ARE a feminist doesn't preclude you from being a racist,or sexist. Just as being a race, sex or gay, doesn't preclude you from being racist against your same race, or sexist against your own gender or hateful of other gay people.

this doesn't, and has never followed. claiming that it does is part of what he (and others) are talking about.

[GodlyBob]

Yeah, you're god damn right for once, I DO think a bakery that is licences to provide goods to the public should be FORCED out of business, yes I DO believe if you get caught being a racist promoting racism that should in addition to any other crime be considered, Yes I do believe if you have backwards as fuck ideas about women and what they should be from your Traditionalist point of view or any other, that if you ACT on that, you should be fired, laughed at or generally shunned by decent society.


Yes, OMFG, I am extreme, and No I don't think someones IDEOLOGY or OPINION, import than how human beings born different should be treated.

If you force somebody to change their ways, they will not adhere to the change. Racism is bad, sexism is bad, but the underlying issues are fixed through mutual understanding and respect, which is something that is never the outcome of a shouting match. Scale is a big thing to remember too, not all acts of racism are going to be equally harmful. They're all bad, but killing a person because of the color of their skin is a lot worse than using a racial slur. Ideally, we wouldn't have the issue at all, but realistically, this problem can only be solved gradually.