Alcohol Vs Marijuana Debate

[Kurioxan]

You know if you make arguments like "He found that adolescents who use cannabis regularly are about twice as likely as their nonuser peers to drop out of school, as well as experience cognitive impairment and psychoses as adults" is something you can universally apply to all substance abuse and even to people who game for sake of escapism.

not really no, not all substances will do this. besides, it doesnt matter does it? the premise was "its healthy and has no risks". which is not true.

All substances can have bad effects on you, however seeing this is about one or the other and knowing alcohol has a much worse effect then MJ ever will on ones body, it's rather obvious whos the clear winner.

It also has a myriad of health benefits.

[Slaskra]

I have a bigger dislike for weed though, because a drink or two won't turn you into a slobbering idiot yet, while one joint is all it takes for most people to turn them into total shit-for-brains.

A drink or two isn't comparable to a whole joint. Believe it or not, it is possible to smoke less than a joint. Its not your standard serving size.

[IIamaKing]

Alcohol blows up your liver; weed blows up your brain. The amount of weed necessary to blow up your brain is, proportionally, much smaller than the amount of alcohol needed to start screwing up your liver.

No, it doesn't.

[BellaSwoosh]

I have a very liberal position

Every drug should be legal
Marijuana
Crack
heroine

If someone wants to go shoot up all day and slowly kill themselves, i have no problem, mmaybe drugs like the bath salts that make you go crazy should be banned, but realistically if people want to do them, they will get them one way or another.
One of the biggest things is also the tax revenue, we could increase school funding, fund housing projects, do all kinds of things that could be beneficial, also, forgot gun control,lf we want to eliminate gun deaths, put 80% of the gangs that sell drugs out of business with legal drugs that can be regulated and taxed, washington and colorodo show, even when done at a STATE level gun crimes decrease sharply, and revenues are increase sharply, its a win win! Just with marijuana, we have evidence in some european nations that legalizing harder drugs is also effective.

Yeah, no.

Sorry but I don't really agree with Meth heads robbing, murdering and selling off their kids to feul their addiction. Weed I can get behind, but crack Meth and heroine? You gotta be a fool to support that.

Go live next to a heroine addict and see how Liberal you feel when they break into your house and steal your shit.

[Slaskra]

Better link? what you mean? its medscape.
And no, i do not, i've been here long enough/spoke with enough stoners to know how it goes

I mean a link that doesn't require registration.

[BellaSwoosh]

Again, that's the wrong question. The better one would be: why they thought making it illegal was a good idea in the first place.

Okay, but it's my question. If you don't want to answer then fine, but don't tell me my question is wrong.

[Kurioxan]

One of the biggest things is also the tax revenue, we could increase school funding, fund housing projects, do all kinds of things that could be beneficial

Nah, drug revenue is tiny, i never understood why people keep totting the "drugs will save the economy" line. If you want to save the economy stop wasting money on bombing primitive countries and use it on schools and hospitals

[s_bushido]

Okay, but it's my question. If you don't want to answer then fine, but don't tell me my question is wrong.

If making it illegal was a stupid idea, that is the answer to why they made it legal again...

[Acidbaron]

not really no, not all substances will do this. besides, it doesnt matter does it? the premise was "its healthy and has no risks". which is not true.
It also has a myriad of health benefits.

You are sounding like you have some personally issue with this particular drug by making statements like that. So don't know what your deal is but have fun with your crusade against one particular drug while speaking good about things like alcohol.

For someone who likes to label others as blind defenders you surely do fit that picture.

[IIamaKing]

You never heard it because all the pro-marijuana advocates have selective reading abilities and do a ton of censoring of their own, only showing the "good things" but mysteriously forgetting to ever mention the bad ones. Like with everything there is a lot of economic and personal interests, propaganda is real.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/411952

"Marijuana Ingredient Promotes Tumor Growth, Impairs AntiTumor Defenses"
"New York (MedscapeWire) Jun 22 - Researchers report in the July issue of the Journal of Immunology that tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major psychoactive component of marijuana, can promote tumor growth by impairing the body's antitumor immunity system. While previous research has shown that THC can lower resistance to both bacterial and viral infections, this is the first time that its possible tumor-promoting activity has been reported.

A team of researchers at the University of California at Los Angeles (UCLA) Jonsson Cancer Center found in experiments in mice that THC limits immune response"

Another: http://www.livescience.com/48171-mar...ts-review.html
"He found that adolescents who use cannabis regularly are about twice as likely as their nonuser peers to drop out of school, as well as experience cognitive impairment and psychoses as adults"

"The perception that cannabis is a safe drug is a mistaken reaction to a past history of exaggeration of its health risks," Hall told Live Science."

And you can go on and on and on.
But pro-mj will just handwave, im personally neither pro nor con, i think people have to right to choose how they live their lives as long it doesnt hurt others.

Although tbh anyone who doesnt smoke and knows smokers will say the same, you can see behavioural and cognitive changes in the people who use it a lot, you dont need research to notice it.

Edit: this one is particularly interesting and cites 30ish studies:
http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevent...drugs.html#can

And this one:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...ctive-thc-mood

As for the tumors, THC is is largely removed from the oils used to treat cancer and seizers afaik. So thats not a big concern. Please do correct me if Im wrong about the oil not having thc.

As for kids being dumb if the smoke as kids. This is the fault of the black market and, IMO, actually an argument for legalization. No one who lobbies for legalization thinks kids should be smoking.

[Deleted]

This is an issue with the strain you smoked. Proly had a strong indica, I find those to sometimes include paranoia. Has you smoked a good sativa this would not have happened I would bet. This is a result of it existing in a black market. Had you gone into a dispensary they would have talked with you and informed you of the various effects and you would have left with a good strain for your needs.

Eh, I'm staying away from it. The only stuff I do now and then in regards to drugs is benzo nowadays. At least that gives me some help compared to smoking weed.

[BellaSwoosh]

Nah, drug revenue is tiny, i never understood why people keep totting the "drugs will save the economy" line. If you want to save the economy stop wasting money on bombing primitive countries and use it on schools and hospitals

You would be surprised what the US spends its tax dollars on. If we would simply just stop with the silly loopholes, and make some hard cuts to spending across the board, we would be living in an age of excess wealth.

But no one wants that. Here is a tip though. We could cut military funding 80% and we will still be spending just as much cash on new jets and bombs as we do now. The first thing to always get cut is benefits and personnel. The VA would be dismantled before America stopped researching weapons.

- - - Updated - - -

If making it illegal was a stupid idea, that is the answer to why they made it legal again...

Feel like we are going in circles. You are right...I guess but that is kind of a super obtuse answer. Hence why I didn't ask that question. It being illegal was stupid, okay, so why even ask why it is legal now?

My question was based on me trying to explain that Alcohol was Illegal at one point, but that failed. Otherwise it would still be illegal just like marijuana and this thread wouldn't even be happening. If Marijuana started off as universally accepted, and then later became illegal, you would have an argument for hypocrisy, but the two did not start out the same so there is none.

So thanks for answering a question i didn't ask I guess.

[Poppincaps]

Alcohol is more dangerous. I've seen some pretty crazy shit go down when people have too much to drink. Some people just get super violent or they're easily angered when drunk. But that also depends on the person. I am very sociable when I'm drunk and I probably become even more passive than I normally am. You can also blackout while drinking, but that's usually due to people not knowing their limits or playing a stupid drinking game.

Weed can make you trip out, but I've never seen it do any real mental damage. I also don't have that much experience with smoking since I've only done it a couple times, but it seems pretty harmless. Of course you should drive on it, but I've never seen anyone get violent because of it.

[Kurioxan]

You are sounding like you have some personally issue with this particular drug by making statements like that. So don't know what your deal is but have fun with your crusade against one particular drug while speaking good about things like alcohol.

For someone who likes to label others as blind defenders you surely do fit that picture.

See what i mean? this is typical defensive stoner talk... i dont give a shit about either, use what you want, i dont use either.
Saying "alcohol also has a myriad of benefits" is not the same as "omg alcohol is amazing and only has health benefits and no issues unlike mj!" which is not what i said, at all.
merely contesting the idea that mj has no issues, it has tons of them. Unlike alcohol however, they are less obvious so people seem to have the idea thats is perfectly safe and dandy, its not.

[Deleted]

Abusing either may have consequences but i think its safe to say alcohol has more severe including crippling and potentially deadly addiction. Marijuana can trigger hidden/underlying mental illness and can make existing one worse. Alcohol does that too to some extent. But that should go without saying.

Still both are perfectly fine way to relax and/or have fun every now and then. Using them responsibly is the key.

[Beery Swine]

The hell with both of em, mushrooms are where it's at. So damn expensive, tho.

[Deleted]

Yeah, no.

Sorry but I don't really agree with Meth heads robbing, murdering and selling off their kids to feul their addiction. Weed I can get behind, but crack Meth and heroine? You gotta be a fool to support that.

Go live next to a heroine addict and see how Liberal you feel when they break into your house and steal your shit.

I think you kinda missed the point, take the criminality out of the drug, then you take the cost out of the drug. Government controlled - then heroin addicts won't have to break into your house to fund their expensive habit.

The war on drugs doesn't work. This is a fact. Time for some lateral thinking. No I am not liberal nor leftist by any stretch of the imagination. I just know that whatever respective western governments are doing now, just isn't working.

Stigmatise it the same way alcoholism is stigmatised, but have it safe and under control of governments and medical professionals, not criminals (I do get the irony of this statement but...)

FYI I have lived next door to many heroin addicts (brought up in a Glasgow Scotland housing estate.) Some of them were the nicest people you could meet, until they desperately needed cash to fund their habit.

[smegmage]

Alcohol is tied to a lot of deaths and poor decisions, marijuana makes your decisions much more food-oriented.
No but really, smoking anything can not in any way be good for your body.
You're sending charred plant material, super heated air into your lungs, unfiltered.
There is no way in fuck that they can be healthy for the body.
But that's simply smoking; there's edibles, vape, and a bunch of other methods to consume.
Unfortunately smoking is the most prevalent.

These morons that spout, "Heeeeyyy man, MJ isn't a drug man, it's a plant."
It doesn't matter what it is, coffee is considered a drug by definition.

As for Alcohol v. Cannabis, I've seen much more responsible drinkers (PERSONALLY) than responsible smokers.
I don't think either should be illegal in any way, but people that I know that smoke tend to be uneducated, overall stupid, boring people to be around because they base their life around a single plant.

What I really want to see is Cannabis be legalized on a federal level and studied like hell, so we can truly know what we're dealing with and how it truly affects our health.

Someone who gets it. Smoking is horrible for you, no matter the substance being consumed. Unless the user is using edibles or a vaporizer they have no leg to stand on when arguing health.

One must also look at the ramifications their choices have upon others, and that means fueling a drug war if you're in the states. Yes I agree pot should be legalized, however it is not, so you need to question how your actions effect others. Those who simply dismiss this negative aspect as someone else's problem are disgusting.

[Deleted]

Here's a crazy out of this world idea: What if people choose not to smoke and drink and did something productive with the extra money they could save as a result?

[Acidbaron]

See what i mean? this is typical defensive stoner talk... i dont give a shit about either, use what you want, i dont use either.
Saying "alcohol also has a myriad of benefits" is not the same as "omg alcohol is amazing and only has health benefits and no issues unlike mj!" which is not what i said, at all.
merely contesting the idea that mj has no issues, it has tons of them. Unlike alcohol however, they are less obvious so people seem to have the idea thats is perfectly safe and dandy, its not.

Weed also has its benefits on your health. Same with alcohol yet you dismiss one completely while you don't do it to the other.

How is that also typical defensive stoner talk, you are aware i don't smoke while it's easily and readily available if i wished to.