Expansion Divergence (Post WoD)

[Darth-Piekus]

I always provide or at least half of the times provide proof for what I am saying. I am not gonna quote your life. I'm gonna ask if you are gonna be serious for once in this forum instead of giving random smartass comments.

Now I shal ask again.Can you give me a straight example of the majority of orcs in the Rebellion?Can you show me the Orcs that we cannot see and magically appeared or are you gonna continue saying Lalala I can't hear you Bashiok says Bashiok says Bashiok says?

[Arrashi]

Ere you go:

Some orcs have stood by Garrosh's side. You've seen and fought them in Siege of Orgrimmar; however, a majority of the orcs stood with the Horde and against Garrosh's vision of a "pure" Horde, one that is made entirely of, or at least entirely led by, orcs and orcs alone. (Source)

[Cl4nK]

:
- What other leader calls his mom because other racial leader was mean to him. "Thrall coem hoem, garrush is meaaaaaan /sob"

It was Thrall who had to convince Vol'jin to stay in the Horde instead of leaving, almost the same thing happened to Cairne and later on even the Blood Elves were thinking of leaving.

:
- What other leader needs his entire race, and army of mercenaries to defeat his foe, only to fail and require intervention of deity to solve his problem ?

How about every single leader? Remember when Sylvannas couldn't deal with the "rebellion" of the Apothecary and we had to intervene, "along side" with the Alliance? Or again Sylvannas needing our help to clear out SFK? Or Thrall/Garrosh needing help to clear Ragefire Chasm? Or how about in Zul'aman where the Blood Elves were under direct threat of the Amani? Or in the Alliance POV, where we had to clear out the Trolls invading Dun Morogh.

Not to mention that if you need help of a fucking Deity to clear the problem, it's not a small problem at all then.

:
- What other leader talks shit just to be bitchslapped ?

Sylvannas comes to mind. Garrosh getting his ass owned comes to mind against Varian. Or against Quillboars. And where is exactly this bitchslapping taking place? When Garrosh had to hire an assassin to take Vol'jin out? Only to fail like everything else he tried? Or when he sent his Kor'kron to attack Sen'jin village only to be repelled? Or was it when he failed even to take out Anduin? Or was it when Garrosh lost AGAIN to Thrall?

- What other leader has to endure scrubs talking to him like an equal ?

This one doesn't even deserve a response.

- What other leader buttfucks his entire race by not only rejecting they offer buy sending half of azeroth against them ?

Funny how his entire race EXILED his tribe in the first place. Or how time again and again they warred against each other, since the sundering. Or how the Zandalari for instance gathered heroes from both the Horde and the Alliance to end the Gurubashi inside Zul'Gurub because they were dealing with Hakkar. But heaven's forbit that Vol'jin refuse to join them to do the very same thing again.

- What other leader is completely useless in rebelion he started ?

Again, doesn't even deserve a response.

- What other leader not only fails to deliver his promise "hurrrr mah heart piercing no scope arrow durrr" but also is completely irrelevant in plot he supposedly started ?

Yeah, because that's totally fault of Vol'jin right. It's not like Thrall or Varian wanted to kill Garrosh either, but we get a trial instead because "lol celestials". Again we had Thrall taking the spotlight against Garrosh. No one else was involved in his plotline.

- What other leader was made warchief only because people were sick of thrall ?

Garrosh?

Vol'jin has quite alot of reasons to bash him. The fact that he was shoved down our throats, and even worst, horde players are supposed to look at him as some kind of hero and savior makes him untorelable. And the fact that he shows personality of wooden plank for entire mop doesn't help either.

Seriously, can you come with your own reasons instead of basically parroting what Wildberry says? He at least have his own reasons. He at least backs up his opinions with things he can try to validate.

[Arrashi]

Yeah, thank god thrall pat vol'jin on a head and called him a good girl. If darkspears left the horde....probably it would take a while for anyone to notice. And its kinda funny in retrospect where would they even go.

Its funny that you bring example of sylvanas and battle in undercity, where you actually face against legion attack and compare it to fighting against a single deranged witch doctor and few zombies.. And allaince wasn't here to heeeeeeeelp (vol'jin didn't asked them) they were here to attack.

Funny how his entire race EXILED his tribe in the first place. Or how time again and again they warred against each other, since the sundering. Or how the Zandalari for instance gathered heroes from both the Horde and the Alliance to end the Gurubashi inside Zul'Gurub because they were dealing with Hakkar. But heaven's forbit that Vol'jin refuse to join them to do the very same thing again.

I wonder why this keeps happening to darkspears. And wasn't he about to leave horde anyway ?

Yeah, because that's totally fault of Vol'jin right. It's not like Thrall or Varian wanted to kill Garrosh either, but we get a trial instead because "lol celestials". Again we had Thrall taking the spotlight against Garrosh. No one else was involved in his plotline.

I dunno, thrall actually was there trying to at least do something. So did varian. Vol'jin on the other hand....if i recall correctly is was:
- Baine secure area.
- Heroes get garrosh
- I will return to surface.
Truly an inspiring leader.

Garrosh?

Garrosh was made warchief so thrall can go save the world. Vol'jin was made warchief after absurdly negative feedback when one of blizz guys said "Who wouldn't want to reinstall thrall as warchief" and learned hard way that it quite alot of people.

Seriously, can you come with your own reasons instead of basically parroting what Wildberry says? He at least have his own reasons. He at least backs up his opinions with things he can try to validate.

Oh my, does wildberry have monopoly on that subject ? I think that everyone can hate vol'jin as much as they please.

[Ramz]

I don't know, its easy to bash him because:
- What other leader calls his mom because other racial leader was mean to him. "Thrall coem hoem, garrush is meaaaaaan /sob"

What? Vol'Jin never called anyone, as poster above me pointed it was Thrall who insisted audince, becuase he didn't wanted for Vol'Jin to leave the Horde. And Vol'Jin is not the man to QQ in the corner he is reasonable man.

- What other leader needs his entire race, and army of mercenaries to defeat his foe, only to fail and require intervention of deity to solve his problem ?

Whole attack was well prepared and among those preparation getting support of deity was fundamental because Zalazane was messing with border of life and death. And couldn't be killed with regular measures. The mission turned out to be success, so I don't see the issue.

- What other leader talks shit just to be bitchslapped ?

And when was he supposed to be "bitchslapped?", oh and I could come up with some, Sylvanas, Tyrande, Moira, Maraad, Garrosh, Thraal, Orgrimm Doomhammer in WoD, should I go on?

- What other leader has to endure scrubs talking to him like an equal ?

Most? Varok Saurfang(Borean Tundra), Varian Wrynn( pandaren acceptance), Sylvanas (Silverpine questing), Malfurion (Mount Hyjal Questing), ... it's a long list.

- What other leader buttfucks his entire race by not only rejecting they offer buy sending half of azeroth against them ?

I am all for troll getting back their empires, and I don't care if other races would get screwed up, but using Hakkar's powers wil lalways lead to damnation anyway. But I agree that Amani should've razed sillymoon to dust.

- What other leader is completely useless in rebelion he started ?

Vol'Jin was the one who pulled the strings so he wasn't useless. But if you're meaning SoO raid encounter, then every leader is useless except Saurfang. Vol'Jin was taking care of bloodshed, while other I have no idea what exactly they were doing, perhaps fighting alongside. I saw Baine passing by once by some point, and that's all.

- What other leader not only fails to deliver his promise "hurrrr mah heart piercing no scope arrow durrr" but also is completely irrelevant in plot he supposedly started ?

He was revelant what the hell, He was the one who started everything, he dethroned Garrosh, that was the ultimate goal. He didn't delived the killing blow, but he ended his reign, and took his seat. He was fighting among his people to take back Durotar, He organised everything.

- What other leader was made warchief only because people were sick of thrall ?

Garrosh ofc.

Vol'jin has quite alot of reasons to bash him. The fact that he was shoved down our throats, and even worst, horde players are supposed to look at him as some kind of hero and savior makes him untorelable. And the fact that he shows personality of wooden plank for entire mop doesn't help either.

Your resons are mostly silly imo, silly becuase you can't see other leaders having exact same issues, meaning that he really isn't worse than them. I can only see the real issue with turning back on Zandalari, but it's mostly due to me wanting Trolls to get back to power, and considering that Vol'Jin is highly effective both in combat and strategy, proof is in the fact that each assault was prepared, and in book he did truly remarkable deal by repelling Zandalari invasion while having huge disadvantage in numbers, and it's not the first time he used minimal forces and resources to undo the threat.

So he has potential. And it's up to devs to use it. I don't know exactly what they're planning to do with him, but before 5.4. devs said that new Warchief will deal with Sylvanas, not sure if it's still in plans, or it was scrapped. We're yet to see.

[Combatbutler]

I am all for troll getting back their empires, and I don't care if other races would get screwed up, but using Hakkar's powers wil lalways lead to damnation anyway. But I agree that Amani should've razed sillymoon to dust.

They were stopped by rangers and some of Vol'jins troops, they were hardly a fundamental threat to Silvermoon, otherwise Theron would have not made such a fuss about Vereesa, the well being of his people is his top priority and he wouldn't send help away if they are absolutely necessary. Not even the whole belf army was needed to beat them into submission again. Ever since the Sunwell has been restored the chances of the amani conquering Quel'thalas are slim to none.

[Ramz]

They were stopped by rangers and some of Vol'jins troops, they were hardly a fundamental threat to Silvermoon, otherwise Theron would have not made such a fuss about Vereesa, the well being of his people is his top priority and he wouldn't send help away if they are absolutely necessary. Not even the whole belf army was needed to beat them into submission again. Ever since the Sunwell has been restored the chances of the amani conquering Quel'thalas are slim to none.

There was combined army of Belves, helves and Darkspears, becuase belves alone oculdn't handle it. They had to cooperate.
And never say never, one day justice for Amani will come! ( what? I can always dream ;D )

[Zulkhan]

If Varian decided to conquer the Horde he would be able to do it. It's true that it would be not easy and it would cost a lot but he would be able to do it.

And again you ignore that Wrathion said that based on the advantageous position Varian had in Orgrimmar, dealing with a Horde devoided of leadership, divided and broke apart against the super-united Alliance. Wrathion was mad because Varian let this chance to slip out of his hands by letting another Warchief to take the lead of the Horde. Now, it's impossible to say if the Alliance would be able or not to actually conquer the Horde as a whole, especially since Wrathion and Varian himself said that the losses on the Alliance's part would have been heavy even against a Horde without Warchief and in utter disarray.

Besides, the Alliance is utterly clueless in how to deal with the conquered Horde lands/people in the first place, since the risk is for the Alliance to break itself apart like it did pre-Third War.

She has a choice. Either stop and try to find a cure or it's gonna be game over.

The bitch doesn't really need that. If conflicts and wars don't happen, then losses are not an issue. If these bad things happen, then she turn fallen enemies into Forsaken. Sylvanas doesn't really need to start wars just to "turn people", in fact it would be hilariously contradictory.

As for the living I didn't knew Gilneas was Alliance

Garrosh ordered the assault, and now Gilneas is very Alliance.

Or the Ambermill Mages

Their "boss" said that Lordaeron belonged to the Alliance. I say they were very much Alliance.

Or the Refugees at Ferris I think it was

Those were refugess escaping the Southshore holocaust, and Southshore was very Alliance.

About the Orc numbers, I discussed this shit on another thread, you can check it. Not gonna repeat myself in such an irrelevant matter.

Oh, and just lolz about Vol'jin inserting himself in every single thread of this sub-forum. Really, it's kinda nostalgic, I remember how Garrosh popped out everywhere with people bashing the shit out of him.

They were stopped by rangers and some of Vol'jins troops, they were hardly a fundamental threat to Silvermoon, otherwise Theron would have not made such a fuss about Vereesa, the well being of his people is his top priority and he wouldn't send help away if they are absolutely necessary.

It's entirely possible Theron didn't get the whole idea of the situation, Halduron was right in the field and could see how things in Zul'Aman were going. He's normally very close and respectful of Lor'themar but in that occasion, Halduron literally lost his shit. Surely he deemed more than necessary Vereesa's and Vol'jin's presence there.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh my, does wildberry have monopoly on that subject ?

Not really but let's be honest, he deserves a special award for the amount of efforts he put on his stuff.

[Arrashi]

Not really but let's be honest, he deserves a special award for the amount of efforts he put on his stuff.

Yeah, but with him not present and friendly being banned for daring to step into endus territory (aka general off topic) it falls to me, to work on that subject.

[Zulkhan]

friendly being banned for daring to step into endus territory (aka general off topic)

Hell, he got banned two times in a row. There's a reason I stay out of that place (most of the times, at least).

[Cl4nK]

a single deranged witch doctor and few zombies.

A single deranged witch doctor and a few zombies that need fucking DEITY to be put down. Against not only Vol'jin, but the heroes and whatever other race was there to help.

I dunno, thrall actually was there trying to at least do something. So did varian. Vol'jin on the other hand....if i recall correctly is was:
- Baine secure area.
- Heroes get garrosh
- I will return to surface.
Truly an inspiring leader.

Because Baine secured the area all by himself right? Every single time Baine even appeared in the game, Vol'jin was right next to him. Every single time Baine appeared with his tauren soldiers, there were Trolls with him as well.

Garrosh was made warchief so thrall can go save the world. Vol'jin was made warchief after absurdly negative feedback when one of blizz guys said "Who wouldn't want to reinstall thrall as warchief" and learned hard way that it quite alot of people.

No, Garrosh was made Warchief because Thrall made the mistake of thinking that Garrosh could actually lead. Thrall had plenty of others to name as Warchief. But Blizzard from the begining wanted Garrosh, wanted to spark conflict and bring back "war to warcraft".

Oh my, does wildberry have monopoly on that subject ? I think that everyone can hate vol'jin as much as they please.

I never said you couldn't criticize, I said to come up with your own opinions instead of parroting him in every single argument. You want to hate Vol'jin and the Darkspear? Please, be my guest, but at least make sense when you do it, instead of throwing around memes and silly words when you get questioned.

[Zulkhan]

A single deranged witch doctor and a few zombies that need fucking DEITY to be put down. Against not only Vol'jin, but the heroes and whatever other race was there to help.

Don't forget that the "few zombies" surpassed the Darkspear in actual numbers, suggesting that when Zalazane went nuts, he stole at least 60% of the actual tribe with his OP voodoo tricks. In fact, is the risk of losing the entire tribe to Zalazane that forced Vol'jin to quickly abandon the Isles.

[Arrashi]

Don't forget that the "few zombies" surpassed the Darkspear in actual numbers, suggesting that when Zalazane went nuts, he stole at least 60% of the actual tribe with his OP voodoo tricks. In fact, is the risk of losing the entire tribe to Zalazane that forced Vol'jin to quickly abandon the Isles.

That's what vol'jin gets for clicking on baba-ji links. How is that black magic husband voodoo working for him now ?

[Darth-Piekus]

Why did Friendly got banned?

[Gdcotton]

You're all being nuts, get back on subject of the forum topic and stop bickering like 5 year olds.

Anyhow, I like to not think too much into whatever the next expansion will be, never really know honestly what it does happen to be. Blizzard has kind of surprised everyone left and right with them, so just waiting to be surprised again.

[Zulkhan]

That's what vol'jin gets for clicking on baba-ji links. How is that black magic husband voodoo working for him now ?

All I have to say is that in terms of personal, raw power, Zalazane shown more than Gul'dan could ever hope to display.

Zalazane was unkillable by living beings and required the Loa of Death to actually put him down. Gul'dan got butchered by Demons and couldn't do shit by himself alone most of the time. But Gul'dan was indeed better in being a charlatan.

[Combatbutler]

It's entirely possible Theron didn't get the whole idea of the situation, Halduron was right in the field and could see how things in Zul'Aman were going. He's normally very close and respectful of Lor'themar but in that occasion, Halduron literally lost his shit. Surely he deemed more than necessary Vereesa's and Vol'jin's presence there.

There was combined army of Belves, helves and Darkspears, becuase belves alone oculdn't handle it. They had to cooperate.
And never say never, one day justice for Amani will come! ( what? I can always dream ;D )

Neither the magisters nor the bloodknights were present to help, Halduron alone was there with some Farstriders and called for Vereesa, because most of his rangers were not in Quel'thalas at the moment. The blood elves could handle the amani on their own, if they mobilized their entire army.

[Arrashi]

I would say that he was unkillable by living being present. Im pretty sure that against some soul nomming undead or demons he wouldnt fare half as good.

And as much as i consider gul'dan to be a joke now, in AU he kinda got butchered by demons outclassing most of things we seen. They seem to like that sargeras-fella alot.

[Wildberry]

Why did Friendly got banned?

If I were a betting man, I'd say it's because Endus has really thick skin and is a fair and balanced moderator.

You want to hate Vol'jin and the Darkspear? Please, be my guest, but at least make sense when you do it, instead of throwing around memes and silly words when you get questioned.

Arguing that position in the first place is enough to make sense.

Yeah, but with him not present and friendly being banned for daring to step into endus territory (aka general off topic) it falls to me, to work on that subject.

I'm always present.

But RIP Friendly. Banned too soon.

Not really but let's be honest, he deserves a special award for the amount of efforts he put on his stuff.

"#1 Peddler of Racial Hatred - US" Sorry Jesse Jackson, your time's over.

Oh my, does wildberry have monopoly on that subject ? I think that everyone can hate vol'jin as much as they please.

I claim no monopoly. The more people holding these views, the better.

- - - Updated - - -

Now I shal ask again.Can you give me a straight example of the majority of orcs in the Rebellion?Can you show me the Orcs that we cannot see and magically appeared or are you gonna continue saying Lalala I can't hear you Bashiok says Bashiok says Bashiok says?

"Can you provide proof of that? NO, the actual proof doesn't count as "proof."

What?

[Xilurm]

Pretty sure they will find something to make a filler expansion out of.