Mythic Beastlord...WE NEED YOUR HELP!

[Halbrium]

EDIT: We killed him! Thanks everyone for your awesome help!

EDIT: Well we have it down to 4%...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...NxLaT#fight=10

Any comments about how to close that final gap would be helpful. Thanks.


______________________________________________________________________________________


https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1694&wipes=1

We have tried 2 tanks, 3 tanks, 4 healing, 5 healing...

We can't seem to make it through without the healers at their wits end trying to keep tanks up. And if we do keep the attempt going once the third mount dies everyone melts.

We have a ton of tank deaths throughout the fight. The healers say they can't react to how fast the tanks are dropping. One problem we see consistently is one tank with taunt the boss off the other tank, and then the other thanks will get aggro back again shortly after without touching the boss again. This seemed to happen with all the tanks.

So what can we fix? We want to get to the kill fault-line and get to the final phase.

[Spotnick]

We did 3 tanks + 5 healers in our first kills there, and starting at the 3rd beast we had 2 dedicated tank healers (paladin and priest) until the end of the fight.

Tell you disc priest to start using Clarity of Will, it seems obvious he needs to tank heal without a paladin in your raid. Plus, I have yet to see a priest use Saving Grace as a talent in raiding, this is a first.

Also, I see a huge problem when I check Mistweaver logs and I don't see Uplift and Rushing Jade Wind as the top healing spells on a fight like that.

[Sxq]

- in general, you have a lot of players who could be doing more damage to the boss itself rather than hitting adds and spears when they don't need to die quickly

- you have a lot of people who are not pre potting or using health tonics ever.

- way too much rend and tear damage, gotta split better. your melee/tanks in particular don't seem to be avoiding it at all.

[Snokey]

The reason you are not getting further is quite a number of things.

You can 2 tank or 3 tank, healers are of course flexible as well, what isn't flexible is people avoiding mechanics. Tanks should avoid taking more than 2 stacks of rend and tear otherwise they will need a bop, melee should be able to avoid every stack, if they take 2 they need to be boped immediately.

People dying to pin down... that is not acceptable, no one should be getting pinned, there is even parses of tanks getting pinned, why are ranged in the melee/tank group in the first place. As the poster above has pointed out the use of tonics is pretty appalling, wipe 12 there is 1 tonic used across 20 people.

Another thing is there is 12 externals and the possibility of 1 person having 10 put on them over the course of a fight. 3 paladins should be running clemency amounting to 6 bops 6 sacs, 3 warriors with vig, pain sup, gs, cocoon. Then the tanks have their own personal cds ontop of that. I mean have a sac ready for a tank or a minor self cd for every beasts, if its that much of a thing, but you probably only want it after they are shockwaved and about to come out. Another thing is only the tank on the boss keeping him where he is needs to really take the end and tear stacks the other two tanks while not tanking the boss should ever get hit, i mean 1 stack here and there maybe but its pretty easy to avoid.

With two warrior tanks having the beasts almost stun locked for the duration of their life should almost be a thing. Ultimately you have to clean up people getting hit by the avoidable damage, have the druid tank full time boss with the two warriors alternating with pack beasts. Towards the end hunters can also md to tanks so they don't have to leave the front of the boss so much.

Finally if a tank completely stops auto attacking and using specials, then get the boss back, i would question what the other tanks are doing when they taunt, i mean for the druid i would suggest a at least a mangle as soon as they taunt and the warriors to shield slam as soon as they taunt. Dots really don't tick that hard to rip threat.

So clean it up across the board everyone needs to work harder. Sort out those cooldowns on tanks and swapping the boss and beasts.

[Halbrium]

The reason you are not getting further is quite a number of things.

You can 2 tank or 3 tank, healers are of course flexible as well, what isn't flexible is people avoiding mechanics. Tanks should avoid taking more than 2 stacks of rend and tear otherwise they will need a bop, melee should be able to avoid every stack, if they take 2 they need to be boped immediately.

People dying to pin down... that is not acceptable, no one should be getting pinned, there is even parses of tanks getting pinned, why are ranged in the melee/tank group in the first place. As the poster above has pointed out the use of tonics is pretty appalling, wipe 12 there is 1 tonic used across 20 people.

Another thing is there is 12 externals and the possibility of 1 person having 10 put on them over the course of a fight. 3 paladins should be running clemency amounting to 6 bops 6 sacs, 3 warriors with vig, pain sup, gs, cocoon. Then the tanks have their own personal cds ontop of that. I mean have a sac ready for a tank or a minor self cd for every beasts, if its that much of a thing, but you probably only want it after they are shockwaved and about to come out. Another thing is only the tank on the boss keeping him where he is needs to really take the end and tear stacks the other two tanks while not tanking the boss should ever get hit, i mean 1 stack here and there maybe but its pretty easy to avoid.

With two warrior tanks having the beasts almost stun locked for the duration of their life should almost be a thing. Ultimately you have to clean up people getting hit by the avoidable damage, have the druid tank full time boss with the two warriors alternating with pack beasts. Towards the end hunters can also md to tanks so they don't have to leave the front of the boss so much.

Finally if a tank completely stops auto attacking and using specials, then get the boss back, i would question what the other tanks are doing when they taunt, i mean for the druid i would suggest a at least a mangle as soon as they taunt and the warriors to shield slam as soon as they taunt. Dots really don't tick that hard to rip threat.

So clean it up across the board everyone needs to work harder. Sort out those cooldowns on tanks and swapping the boss and beasts.

I'm not sure its just Mechanics. Sure we have Pin down deaths, and times where rend and tear hit more people that it should, but we also had some fairly clean attempts that still had tanks getting wtfpwned very very quickly. Especially at the end of the third mount phase, but really throughout the fight.

[Caruktna]

Stop the boss roulette... pick a mount order and stick with it.

[Halbrium]

Stop the boss roulette... pick a mount order and stick with it.

I'm gonna have to talk to that Belzabeth.

[Chuckadoodle]

Stick with a boss order, Tanks coordinate when to taunt, so much of the damage till after faultline is avoidable, simple solution to rend and tear, the OT moves away a second or 2 early, yes there is a DBM timer and all of your melee should be moving away. Very few of our early wipes were to tank deaths, most were to derps getting pinned down during faultline and after, bad positioning and derps getting cut off with epicenter. Missed dispells, you name it a lot can go wrong in the final 2 phases.

[Ehrgein]

Your main problem besides what everyone has pointed out already is that you have a lot of people trying to pad the meter by getting damage on beasts. Damage on darmac is really low and no matter what you do on final phase if you don't get that single target damage out he isn't going to die. Try to put dedicated people when adds come out, let's say, you could put fire mages and 1 warrior dedicated to it with bladestorm and that should be enough. You have like 80% of your raid dedicated to pack beasts. To put it in numbers for you, everyone should be doing at least 6-7m on darmac. Also, your hunters need to step up, that damage is really low for a bm hunter on darmac.
EDIT: A nice tip to prevent tank deaths is to make your ret paladins have a set rotation for when the boss unmounts one of the beasts, make one of your paladins SAC both tanks, it worked wonders for us, specially on the rylak mount

[zyZ]

2 tank 6 healers ez mode

[Halbrium]

Your main problem besides what everyone has pointed out already is that you have a lot of people trying to pad the meter by getting damage on beasts. Damage on darmac is really low and no matter what you do on final phase if you don't get that single target damage out he isn't going to die. Try to put dedicated people when adds come out, let's say, you could put fire mages and 1 warrior dedicated to it with bladestorm and that should be enough. You have like 80% of your raid dedicated to pack beasts. To put it in numbers for you, everyone should be doing at least 6-7m on darmac. Also, your hunters need to step up, that damage is really low for a bm hunter on darmac.
EDIT: A nice tip to prevent tank deaths is to make your ret paladins have a set rotation for when the boss unmounts one of the beasts, make one of your paladins SAC both tanks, it worked wonders for us, specially on the rylak mount

Well my dps (hunter) is the highest on Darmac of anyone...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1694&wipes=1

[nephzor]

Well my dps (hunter) is the highest on Darmac of anyone...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1694&wipes=1

nice attitude.... you're the highest dps on darmac doesn't mean you can't improve

Also like everyone pointed lots of avoidable damage. Melee needs to move out before cruelfang or darmac jumps back to the tank, and if for some reason you get a stack or 2 ... pop a personnal/immunity and use healing tonic/healthstone

[Halbrium]

nice attitude.... you're the highest dps on darmac doesn't mean you can't improve

Also like everyone pointed lots of avoidable damage. Melee needs to move out before cruelfang or darmac jumps back to the tank, and if for some reason you get a stack or 2 ... pop a personnal/immunity and use healing tonic/healthstone

Lol trust me, I'm probably one of the most self critical people there are. I believe I could certainly be doing better. I look for ways every day to be better. That said I wouldn't single out hunter dps as the problem here.

Our biggest problem is tanks just getting blown up...If anyone could look at tank deaths and see what we could have done better, I would be most appreciative!

[Deja Thoris]

I'm not sure its just Mechanics. Sure we have Pin down deaths, and times where rend and tear hit more people that it should, but we also had some fairly clean attempts that still had tanks getting wtfpwned very very quickly. Especially at the end of the third mount phase, but really throughout the fight.

Stop being defensive when people are trying to offer help. Over the course of 17 wipes you had 40 people pinned and 165 stacks of inferno breath (10 per pull). You missed at least 30 enrage dispels on the boss (savage howl). You missed 33 conflag dispels meaning people run around in circles like retards for 10 full seconds (and 7 died from it). You also missed 78 dispels of inferno breath despite having 3 priests that can mass dispel. Your rogue took 5 times more damage from rend and tear than some ranged yet he only cloaked 9 times in 17 pulls.

Mechanics are raping you. "I'm not sure its just mechanics". It is. It's mechanics and mechanics only thats wiping you time and time again.

So yea tanks are dying, I don't play either class so I can't comment but healers attention is being taken away by the oodles of completely avoidable damage being taken everywhere else.

[Caruktna]

Well my dps (hunter) is the highest on Darmac of anyone...

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...s=1694&wipes=1

Well, out of the 17 attempts, you topped only a couple (3, 6, 7, 9 (2 min), 13 (2 min))... even a tank beated you on some (10, 12 ). The problem is that you guys are not being consistent on how to preform on the fight. Some people seem to do fine some fights and get pinned down on another, for example. Put yourself in order and i bet you guys will do it.

Mechanics are raping you. "I'm not sure its just mechanics". It is. It's mechanics and mechanics only thats wiping you time and time again.

So yea tanks are dying, I don't play either class so I can't comment but healers attention is being taken away by the oodles of completely avoidable damage being taken everywhere else.

Yeah, seems to be a mix of things. If you have a lot of people getting Rends, it will be a pain on the healers. People need to be consistent with countering mechanics.

[Saphyron]

I'm not sure its just Mechanics. Sure we have Pin down deaths, and times where rend and tear hit more people that it should, but we also had some fairly clean attempts that still had tanks getting wtfpwned very very quickly. Especially at the end of the third mount phase, but really throughout the fight.

You have way too many people getting hit by avoidable damage, fix that and healers will have a much better time.

if you have trouble with aggro. have the tank not tanking turn his back to the boss and have the tank taunting use an ability with it.

Also no offense but your guys dps is quite low. Almost every single person in your raid is whoring the dps yet you have so many people below 40k. Assign 1-2 people to deal with spears and 1-2 people dealing with adds EVERYONE else single targets.

Low dps in this fight is not a problem as long its proper dps.

[nephzor]

I'm not sure its just Mechanics. Sure we have Pin down deaths, and times where rend and tear hit more people that it should, but we also had some fairly clean attempts that still had tanks getting wtfpwned very very quickly. Especially at the end of the third mount phase, but really throughout the fight.

Yes it its mechanics when conflag,breath, pin down, rend and tear kill that many people it is mechanics

Also your prot warrior's shield block uptime is low, and on so many attempts they barely used shield wall, and almost never used last stand. Tanks job is to survive not dps whoring with bladestorm, when you have a higher uptime on bladestorm than on shield block something's wrong

[Jaydenkor]

Alrighty - this may be a long one, but I hope you read it.

3tank, 5heal.
Boss order: Cat->Elephant->Rylak (Then of course, faultline)
Your tanks are 2 warriors and a druid (if you can use a monk, it would be easier)

So, starting off (and please keep in mind Im on a super slow work computer, so I haven't seen your logs easily... Im going off what other posters have said about your logs)
HOWEVER
it does appear you do not have advanced logging checked/enabled?.. I can't see the ilvl of your players.


TANK SECTION:

Tanks: they must be dodging the bleed. My warrior tank (when we didnt have a monk) does the following to avoid the boss jumps:
Intervene away 1 jump.
Leap 1 jump
Find a nearby Spear and Charge 1 jump
^ in that order.

He does not avoid them all, but he avoids most.
He, the warrior tank, tanks the CAT boss, and then the humanoid at all times after the cat dies (and the humanoid boss starts leaping)
Exceptions:
- during elephant split at 40%, they do taunt switch (DK/Warrior, I am a paladin on adds).. but the DK doesn't bother to avoid the 2 bleeds, and tanks the humanoid boss slightly offside while the elephant is being burned...
- During the rylak split, same as above.

Add tank rules:
Pick up adds, bring to melee pile of boss.. do this QUICKLY, dont try to tank them//hold them over by the door while getting aggro. I recomend your druid tank doing this by going into the adds, thrashing twice, and then Typhooning the adds away and booking it to the boss.. When they reach the druid tank again, he should have 2 charges of GOE (L100 talent) available to smooth spiking.
Once the Rylak boss is mounted.. the next set (maybe 2 depending on dps) of adds goes to the boss.. but the moment the boss dismounts, adds NO LONGER GO TO THE BOSS.
The reason for this is, from this point onwards, the adds drop fire when they die.. and if you tank little adds near the tanks tanking the rylak... and they touch fire with 5+stacks of tankdebuffFromRylak.. they die.
A note to the add tank; be aware of the pin timer.. do not get pinned while running to get adds.

DPS/Healers
You can't get pinned. Period. During progression this wipes you. Now, during farm, we sometimes get a pin or 2, but its super easy to break out as our raid ilvl is like 698... but during progression, when this fight is hard.. and your raid is 685 (I hope?).. you can't get pinned.

Bleeds: Melee need to NEVER get 2 stacks.
If they are getting 2 stacks, they are SCREWING YOUR RAID OVER. Make a plan with the tanks, eg; the tank will always run/move NORTH (making direction up), when the boss leaps away, and the melee will move SOUTH.. this way the boss will NEVER leap back into melee dps range and apply bleed
Specifically; my raid tanks the bosses between the Cat boss and the Add spawn point.. the tank ALWAYS moves towards the add spawnpoint, and the melee dps move towards the cat mount original location.

Tank CD's need to be used/coordinated MUCH better given what some have said above... Some general rules:
We have 1 dps warrior and 1 warrior tank..
SO
Every time the boss splits (40% mark on the mount), the warrior tank Vigilances the DK tank.. and the dps warrior Vigilances the Warrior tank.
EVERY TIME.
If we do it too fast (which is the case now with more gear), the warriors warn the paladins, and we use Sac's instead.

BOP is reserved to clear 2+stacks of bleeds.
Sac's are used on Pinned targets while the ranged get them out.

DPS rules on adds:
- You're best cleavers and low-risk of aggro pulling on adds should be on adds. (and by on adds, I mean switching deliberately to them)..
This basically means:
.Hunters, preferably BM hunters; MD barrage each wave of adds (or alternate if you have 2 hunters as the adds come out every 20sec and MD has a 30sec CD)..
.Boomkin Starfall, from the OTHER side of the main boss... dont have him next to the add spawn.. he'll get gibbed.
.Firemages; 1 Living bomb and then inferno blast spread it to all the adds.
Once the adds reach melee, by all means, warriors bladestorm, etcetc... But warriors/melee should NOT be going to intercept the adds.
------
ONCE the Rylak dismounts happens.. and the adds are no longer tanked under the boss, RANGED (not shadowpriests) are on adds relatively full time... And no one can get pinned from here on out.


I dont run our healers so I cant comment on Tantrum raid CD usage... suffice it to say that we use a list of 7 Raid CDs for tantrum, 1 of which is personals/Healthstones.

So... Overall here:
You pull the boss, (no lust on pull, save for later)
Be near the cat mount.. cat happens first.
Dodge bleeds well.
Adds are picked up and brought to melee
Boss dismounts; tank CDs go out to NOT THE ADD TANK tanks. (note; I as the add tank use a personal during splits DURING tantrum. This is the riskiest time as there are .. in effect, 2 bosses + adds out, + trantrum aoe raid dmg.)
Cat mount is killed - note that the CAT bleeds, and the BOSS bleeds are 2 different debuffs.. so it is ok for melee to eat a bleed or 2 (on accident, NOT INTENTIONALLY).. as it will fade even if they get a new stack from the Human boss
DPS should be saving CDs (after the initial opener CD usage) for the boss splits/dismounts.

Now you have Humanoid boss doing cat leaps.
Adds still brought to boss..
Tank boss NEAR cat location, so that boss goes to elephant next, NOT RYLAK.

Elephant boss starts.. still bringing adds to boss.. ppl getting punted around a bit due to elephant charges...
Be sure ranged dont get melee pinned by being to close.. Melee have to chase the boss, ranged have to move away from the melee AND TANKS.
Another boss split.. another tank CD set goes out...

Boss mounts rylak
@around 60% on the rylak boss, ranged need to clear all spears from the room. (when he dismounts rylak .. maybe before? spears start spewing fire... dont want that during split boss time)
Dismount happens.. again, TANK CDs.

ADDS ARE NO LONGER BROUGHT TO THE MELEE/BOSS PILE, ALL RANGED (not shadowpriests -- their aoe sucks for this.. better served on bosses and keeping spears down)

Rylak dies.. Prepare for faultline.

When faultline comes out, all spears need to be cleared from the room (they will not light on fire again until after he dismounts, at 0% on faultline)

please note; I could be mistaken about the small adds still dropping fire when they die during faultline.. but this is just how we do it.
Adds are now simply tanked near their spawn location.. and ranged kill them.

@Faultline 30%hp, CLEAR ALL SPEARS from the room.

@Faultline 5%, EVERYONE is on the boss, LUST POT NOW, NOT LATER. -- Even if adds are up, ignore them for the first 5-10seconds of the dismount process
Reason: you want EVERYONE on the humanoid boss with lust, pots, and CDs ALREADY GOING. -- because!: When he dismounts he has.. somewhere around 20mil hp.. this hp is doubled 5seconds later (when he stands up after dismount.. so, EVERY 1 dmg you do to him right as he dismounts, and for 5 seconds afterwards, is actually 2x.... as his hp is doubled from Whatever it is at when his animation finishes.

Have ranged switch back to the adds when the boss stands up//finishes his shit.
Kill 2 more sets of adds.
Ignore the rest of the adds, kill the boss
Tank note: So.. you're tanking the last set of adds they are killing.... they die.. the next set comes out... and you're tanking these.... and then the NEXT set comes out -- the moment you are starting to pickup this 2nd set of adds, WITH the first set already on you, is tank CD time --- My order is:
- Painsup--->DP+AD-->Sac--->GOAK-->Sac +IB in there somewhere.
Once that 2nd set of adds hits you, you are only going to live for about 15-20 seconds.. thats how long they have to kill the boss.





I believe this'll email me if any further updates, so by all means ask me any questions regarding all this.
Good luck.

- - - Updated - - -

Stop being defensive when people are trying to offer help. Over the course of 17 wipes you had 40 people pinned and 165 stacks of inferno breath (10 per pull). You missed at least 30 enrage dispels on the boss (savage howl). You missed 33 conflag dispels meaning people run around in circles like retards for 10 full seconds (and 7 died from it). You also missed 78 dispels of inferno breath despite having 3 priests that can mass dispel. Your rogue took 5 times more damage from rend and tear than some ranged yet he only cloaked 9 times in 17 pulls.

Mechanics are raping you. "I'm not sure its just mechanics". It is. It's mechanics and mechanics only thats wiping you time and time again.

So yea tanks are dying, I don't play either class so I can't comment but healers attention is being taken away by the oodles of completely avoidable damage being taken everywhere else.

^ quoting this into my post as well.. This is serious stuff that has to be fixed.


and one last edit:

Direct assignments do help.... We don't do them because most of our raiders know their best stuff intuitively... BUT to be specific:

Melee:
Rogues: Should be assassination, and singletarget whoring -- 1 fan of knives to spread poisons to adds to get the +10% more haste (L100 talent?) is fine. The other reason is Rogue execute (sub 35%) dmg is quite good.. Our rogues are generally TOP single target dmg on the mounts and on Darmac himself.
DK;s Unholy, necrotic plague whores.. with that 1 frost talent on the L90 row for aoe stun -- a stun rotation on adds as the add tank brings them in is very useful
Warriors: AOE whore spec - Blow up adds when they arrive.. - NOTE: During phases when adds are NOT brought to melee, warriors when their AOE Cds are up, Leap to adds and aoe, then charge back to boss.
Rets; On boss, cleave if adds near.

Ranged:
Hunters:
BM-> On adds, MD barrage, abuse beastcleave.
SV-> One multishot into adds, 1 arcane shot into each spear (Be a shadowpriest)
MM - /gkick (On this fight)
Shadowpriests: On spears/bosses
Boomkins: On spears/adds
Warlocks (I don't know enough; Ours is Destro, does bosses till Faultline, then adds from there on out.)
Mages: Fire; Infernoblast OP, spread living bomb, single target the boss. Combust adds once Faultline is out and beyond.

[Halbrium]

Well, out of the 17 attempts, you topped only a couple (3, 6, 7, 9 (2 min), 13 (2 min))... even a tank beated you on some (10, 12 ). The problem is that you guys are not being consistent on how to preform on the fight. Some people seem to do fine some fights and get pinned down on another, for example. Put yourself in order and i bet you guys will do it.



Yeah, seems to be a mix of things. If you have a lot of people getting Rends, it will be a pain on the healers. People need to be consistent with countering mechanics.

I don't know what happened on attempt 10 or 12...But You, I mean "Belz" didn't beat me on those fights but he came way too close. Those two are probably the biggest outliers. Also we have not approached the point we dps is even the issue.

We had several moments where rends where being handled and tanks would still drop waaay too fast.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes it its mechanics when conflag,breath, pin down, rend and tear kill that many people it is mechanics

Also your prot warrior's shield block uptime is low, and on so many attempts they barely used shield wall, and almost never used last stand. Tanks job is to survive not dps whoring with bladestorm, when you have a higher uptime on bladestorm than on shield block something's wrong

I guess I don't mean to say it's not mechanics, more I understand why we wipe when those things happen, but when nobody has rend in tear, and everyone seems to be topped off, we still are getting tank deaths, and those are the ones I don't understand and worry me because I don't know how to fix them.

In terms of DPS whoring warrior tanks, I'll have to mention what you said to him...He is very proud of his dps though...lol

- - - Updated - - -

@jaydenkor This is VERY VERY helpful. Thanks for this post.

[Jaydenkor]

@jaydenkor This is VERY VERY helpful. Thanks for this post.

((Making sure you saw my edit and quote on the bottom part of post-- late edits, sorry))

- - - Updated - - -

I want to draw your attention to this log:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zqQZfaDXnR79VAGh/#type=auras&fight=18&source=4

Look at *Defensive buffs*
Note: Shield block, and the one below it, Shield Mastery
Shield mastery is a proc based on the 4pt17 set.. it basically CASTS shield block FOR the warrior.
Note how the uptime for Shield mastery and Shield block is the same.

What this means is:
This warrior is NEVER casting shield block, NEVER using his own fucking active mitigation.
If this were a trial tank in my guild, I would gkick him on the spot for what Im seeing in this log. This is BEYOND stupid.. its like he hasn't even put shield block on his bar.. and ONE shield barrier cast on top of that? What? What is he doing? Where is his rage going? heroic strike only?.. he might as well be a dps warrior in defensive stance for what he's doing here..

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zqQZfaDXnR79VAGh/#type=resources&fight=18&source=4&spell=101
That warriors rage gain, (and wasted rage)