6.2 t18 4 set subtlety opener

[Deleted]

Has anyone been raiding sub on ptr? what have you been doing as opener? getting vanish on cd seems prio from my testing last night, I was doing something like

stealth > premed > come out of stealth > snd+pot > pull > Vanish > Reflection >rupture >ambush > dance

vanish also comes back up again so quickly it almost feels clunky on opener and it feels like never a right time to prep and double vanish, since by the time FW is over cd on vanish is only like 20 secs!

Would love to hear your thoughts.
PS assassination was godly on archimonde with archi trinket and 4 set - top damage out of raid!

[Deleted]

Yeah I tried it on the PTR last night, seems quite a change to the play style but I was doing a similar opener to you but was going straight into dance after reflection -> rupture, I also found that I could hardly find a good time to use prep for vanish especially during the opener as it was so close to resetting anyway it wouldn't be worth it..

Also With the vanish CD getting massively reduced, found burst target switch like the fire orbs on Archimonde last night worked really well which adds a bit more flexibility, and trying to line up your vanish reset with each shadow dance as well for the damage boost worked pretty well.

[Deleted]

I did Vanish > SnD > Prepot & Premed > Ambush > Reflection > Rupture > Ambush > Dance.
No clue if it's optimal tho.

[Deleted]

I've read the tier set bonusses, but I still don't get why you'd want to change the opener. If someone would be kind enough to explain this to me?

Edit: Forget I've ever asked, completly forgot about the 25 % extra dmg, just thought about the 5 combopoints that you gain, which I see no reason for to use vanish in the opener, as we already have 10 combopoints when we start the fight, from healers healing

[Puffah]

I've read the tier set bonusses, but I still don't get why you'd want to change the opener. If someone would be kind enough to explain this to me?

Edit: Forget I've ever asked, completly forgot about the 25 % extra dmg, just thought about the 5 combopoints that you gain, which I see no reason for to use vanish in the opener, as we already have 10 combopoints when we start the fight, from healers healing

They brought back HoT out of combat?

[Deleted]

You get the 10 points while the boss is getting reseted (sometimes 2 or 3 times in a row, which is a bit overkill for an extra Evi to my taste but ...)

[Rosvall]

You get the 10 points while the boss is getting reseted (sometimes 2 or 3 times in a row, which is a bit overkill for an extra Evi to my taste but ...)

Well, boss respawn time is 30 seconds. Which means anticipation buff will drop, and you will lose two combo points from deterioration. Thus you'll start with three combo points, five if you count premeditation.

[Deleted]

Does Premeditation resets deterioration timer ? I think I tried something like this on Blackhand M progress and it did not, so your point must be true.

Anyway, I'd rather have the 2 cp SnD opener, you can refresh it during 4p procs and it goes smoothly in your opener without having to force your guild to make some reset crit shenannigans

As for the 6.2 a viable opener will probably include vanishing prepull for the +25% so it won't even matter anymore.

Would be something like :

Pull -3 ToT
Pull -2 Vanish + SnD 5 Cps
Pull -1 Premed + Pot

Pull : Ambush - SR - Rupture 5 CPs (I arguably don't use Hemorrhage cause you can apply Rupture almost instantly after your first Ambush anyway), Dance and here we go.

There's probably some adjustment needed to optimize the Vanish buff to the full for opening, but this Vanish gameplay changing is actually pretty exciting, can't wait to see the final bonus set version.

(This is just for the sake of discussion, no serious theorycrafting done here in this post)

[B L A D E]

My opener with the new set bonus was:
1 sec > Prepot
Garrote
Premed+Ambush
SnD (5 CP)
Pull >80 Energy
Vanish
SR
Rupture
2x Ambush
Evis
Dance

I'm thinking something like Vanish prepull could be possibly strong with the new dmg increase buff from 2p.

[Ryme]

Vanish prepull is worth a stupid amount, it should be in every opener you can do. The actual opener so far doesn't change much, you just use vanish like you would MfD in precombat.

[Rosvall]

Vanish prepull is worth a stupid amount, it should be in every opener you can do. The actual opener so far doesn't change much, you just use vanish like you would MfD in precombat.

Not really sure, since you want to MfD as early as you can without losing CP. While you would want to vanish as late as you can to not lose buff duration.

[Ryme]

Apologies. Too engrained in simc apls atm, they're near enough handled identically there. What Rosvall says is correct.

[Deleted]

Does it mean we might expect a 6.2 SimCraft post soon ?

[Deleted]

Mfd/Preme -> S&D -> Ambush -> Vanish -> Rupture -> Burst

[Ryme]

Does it mean we might expect a 6.2 SimCraft post soon ?

About 40% done overall, hopefully end of this week.

[Smaxy]

Vanish, snd premed, pot.

Pull

Ambush

rupture/cooldowns (sr before or after rupture depends on how much multi strike we have. If you have lots of multistrike, you'll probably want to rupture before sr. Rupturing right after sr with lots of ms can cause you to have to reapply rupture a second time before sr ends, which is not ideal.

[Rosvall]

Vanish, snd premed, pot.

Pull

Ambush

rupture/cooldowns (sr before or after rupture depends on how much multi strike we have. If you have lots of multistrike, you'll probably want to rupture before sr. Rupturing right after sr with lots of ms can cause you to have to reapply rupture a second time before sr ends, which is not ideal.

This will cause Deathly Shadows to only cover a small portion of your opener.

[Smaxy]

This will cause Deathly Shadows to only cover a small portion of your opener.

Done as I did above, it covers about 8 seconds out of ten. I believe Vanish prepull is going to win out, starting with a 5cp snd is strong: not to mention that an opening Ambush plus premed and a HaT proc lets you get Rupture up very quickly.

Time will tell though

[Rosvall]

Done as I did above, it covers about 8 seconds out of ten. I believe Vanish prepull is going to win out, starting with a 5cp snd is strong: not to mention that an opening Ambush plus premed and a HaT proc lets you get Rupture up very quickly.

Time will tell though

Yes, but you still want to pool several seconds before you dance.

[Mac223]

Don't forget that vanish also gives you 5CPs when you have the 2-piece. So if the current top openers are any indication, something like premed->SnD->Prepot+Vanish->Garrote\Ambush->SR+Rupture->SD would be most able to take advantage of the deluge of procs and buffs we'll have on the pull.