6.2 Retribution Theorycraft & Discussion

[Vanson]

All these melee trinket nerfs could be just summed up by blizzard just saying "Fixed an issue where strength melee DPS were doing damage."

In other news, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=67

Mages in my guild were managing to get 30-40% of their damage from the Prophecy of Fear trinket on Archimonde pulls.

[Marrel]

Yes, [we use ES] on almost every fight in HFC.

What is the num target threshold for ES vs. LH now? I'm still using 1 target = ES and 2+ sustained = LH. Last I heard any discussion on this was during HM though. Has it changed?

- - - Updated - - -

All these melee trinket nerfs could be just summed up by blizzard just saying "Fixed an issue where strength melee DPS were doing damage."

In other news, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...done&source=67

Mages in my guild were managing to get 30-40% of their damage from the Prophecy of Fear trinket on Archimonde pulls.

But we have interrupts and external cooldowns! We must be crippled in some way for having all of this utility spilling from our ears.

[Deleted]

But we have interrupts and external cooldowns! We must be crippled in some way for having all of this utility spilling from our ears.

stop channeling storm one of his kind is enough for this thread.
But i can understand why you think that way. Playing ret at the moment is lick running a 100m sprint race but starting 3 seconds late from 125m mark...

[Deleted]

Is there something new regarding the Righteousness bug? It seems to be still in the game (I had some high seal-hits today.) Maybe the seal-damage is calculated by the skill that triggered the seal instead of weapondamage?
For example:
a) Everything works normal with a normal weaponswing, triggering Seal of Righteousness and doing 12% damage based on that weaponswing.
b) You use Final Verdict. Now - because of a bug? -, Seal of Righteousness does 12% damage based on Final Verdict. If Final Verdict crits a very high seal-hit might happen.
There are far more generators and autoattacks than finishers a Paladin will use over a whole fight. And I don't think there are too many crits of our finishers, because of the lower critchance most rets might have. That means b) would be rare compared to the lower "normal" seal-hits of our other abilities.

This might be the biggest bullshit I've ever came up with, but I wanted to share this thoughts. At least I want to know if this is some ridiculous idea.

[Velshin]

Guys what do you think retri normal t18 four set bonus VS 2 t18 with 2 t17 + heroic warforged off set hand item lvl 721 from tyrant boss.

what do you think folks?

[Lorelya]

Just got Normal DC...is it worse or better than my heroic forgemasters? I don't even see forgemaster's on the trinket list.

NVM doesn't matter anymore lol just got EDH

[Forde]

So, I recently came back to wow after a 2 month hiatus and never raided in WoD.

Here's a log from a recent Kromog Heroic kill, I can get other logs from last week.

I've still been playing catch up to the other ret in terms of gear, so I've been behind him in a number of fights.

Any pointers for how I can improve?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/h1kq84VfT9HQ7YJW

Armory (without gear from that run, I had a Saberfang Insignia 695 with STR/Mastery)http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Forde/simple

Other Pallys Armory: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/player/us/mal'ganis/tirinor

I definitely want to improve, I just don't know if my numbers are a gear related thing, or a being out of touch with WoD ret kind of thing.

[Marrel]

Guys what do you think retri normal t18 four set bonus VS 2 t18 with 2 t17 + heroic warforged off set hand item lvl 721 from tyrant boss.

what do you think folks?

I'd go with t18 4pc

- - - Updated - - -

Just got Normal DC...is it worse or better than my heroic forgemasters? I don't even see forgemaster's on the trinket list.

NVM doesn't matter anymore lol just got EDH

DC is shit now. Check out trinket sims on summonstone or OP....

^ sim credit goes to sol

[Lorelya]

Yeah I knew DC wasn't very good anymore, but I still wasn't sure if it was worse than my Forgemaster's, particularly since I didn't see Forgemaster's on that list. However I got EDH, so now I have EDH and Vial on. Out of curiousity though, I simmed myself with EDH/vial and EDH/DC and it was simming better with EDH/DC....I'm definitely no master simcraft user though, so I'm not sure if it's simply user error or not.

[Bad-apple]

Yeah I knew DC wasn't very good anymore, but I still wasn't sure if it was worse than my Forgemaster's, particularly since I didn't see Forgemaster's on that list. However I got EDH, so now I have EDH and Vial on. Out of curiousity though, I simmed myself with EDH/vial and EDH/DC and it was simming better with EDH/DC....I'm definitely no master simcraft user though, so I'm not sure if it's simply user error or not.

I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure Forgemaster's is such a bad trinket compared to other options that there's no point even considering it for the sims.

[Phyrra]

I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure Forgemaster's is such a bad trinket compared to other options that there's no point even considering it for the sims.

This^. It's a pretty dog shit trinket. At least, that's my impression of it.

[Deleted]

credit as usual to our lord and savior sol

posted it to remind everyone how the far the insignia is behind. Seeing the SoW how does it compare to DC normal now?

[Reghame]

credit as usual to our lord and savior sol

posted it to remind everyone how the far the insignia is behind. Seeing the SoW how does it compare to DC normal now?

DC normal is almost equal to mythic horn so go based on that

[Oscure3]

I can't post direct links yet sorry.
Armory Link: us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Denethore/simple

Alternate Specs/Glyphs: I stick with what is in the armory link up there except for experimenting with Lights Hammer on Xhul'Horac

Worldoflogs Link:
(N Archimonde) warcraftlogs.com/reports/zpLAXqh9FrdtG2Mw#fight=56&type=summary&source=307
(H Kormrok) warcraftlogs.com/reports/G13WJZAFbDq9PrXN#fight=19
(H xhul'horac) warcraftlogs.com/reports/DnqVZMgcyWv4fBpx#fight=2

Questions, concerns, expectations: I am likely the most geared out of my raid group other then a druid on Archimonde and yet I am having a really hard time beating other peoples DPS including a paladin that is under my iLevel for most of my logs. My parse's are also really not that great either.

Description of Playstyle: I use Hekili with Simcrafts priority list from my character sims with a slight tunage to display HoW be priority if 0.5 sec till usable. I also usually wait to use AW unless ES is up at the same time unless I need the extra burst (such as the nether on Archimonde)



My Simcraft priority list -->

Spoiler: 

actions.single=divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger. up&holy_power>=3)&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>= 3)&spell_targets.divine_storm=2&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&spell_targets.divine_sto rm=2&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>= 3)&(talent.seraphim.enabled&cooldown.seraphim.remains<gcd*4)
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=(holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3)&(buff.avenging_wrath .down|target.health.pct>35)&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*4)
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.divine_purpose.remains<3
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.divine_crusader.remains<3&buff.final_verdi ct.up
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power=5|buff.holy_avenger.up&holy_power>=3
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react&buff.divine_purpose.remains<3
actions.single+=/crusader_strike,if=t18_class_trinket=1&buff.focus_of_vengeance.remains<gcd.max*2
actions.single+=/hammer_of_wrath
actions.single+=/exorcism,if=buff.blazing_contempt.up&holy_power<=2&buff.holy_avenger.down
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|t arget.health.pct<35)
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=spell_targets.divine_storm=2&buff.final_verdict.up&(buff.avenging_wrath.up |target.health.pct<35)
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&spell_targets.divine_storm=2&(buff.avenging_wra th.up|target.health.pct<35)&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=5&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.se raphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*3)
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=4&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.se raphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*4)
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power=3&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&(!talent.se raphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd*5)
actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.truth&buff.maraads_truth.remains<cooldown. judgment.duration*1.5
actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&seal.righteousness&buff.liadrins_righteousness. remains<cooldown.judgment.duration*1.5
actions.single+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.maraads_truth.remains<(cooldown.judgm ent.duration|buff.maraads_truth.down)&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&!buff. wings_of_liberty.up
actions.single+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remain s<cooldown.judgment.duration&buff.maraads_truth.remains>cooldown.judgment.duration*1.5&tar get.health.pct<35&!buff.wings_of_liberty.up&!buff.bloodlust.up
actions.single+=/crusader_strike,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
actions.single+=/crusader_strike,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&target.health.pct>=35&buff.avenging_wrath.d own)
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&(buff.avenging_wrath.up|target.health.pct<35)&! talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/exorcism,if=glyph.mass_exorcism.enabled&spell_targets.exorcism>=2&!glyph.double_jeopardy.e nabled&!set_bonus.tier17_4pc=1
actions.single+=/judgment,cycle_targets=1,if=last_judgment_target!=target&talent.seraphim.enabled&glyph.dou ble_jeopardy.enabled
actions.single+=/judgment,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
actions.single+=/judgment,cycle_targets=1,if=last_judgment_target!=target&glyph.double_jeopardy.enabled&(ho ly_power<=3|(holy_power=4&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.health.pct>35&buf f.avenging_wrath.down))
actions.single+=/judgment,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&cooldown.crusader_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.hea lth.pct>35&buff.avenging_wrath.down)
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=spell_targets.divine_storm=2&holy_power>=4&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power>=4
actions.single+=/seal_of_truth,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.maraads_truth.remains<cooldown.judgme nt.duration*1.5&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remains>cooldown.judgment.duration*1.5
actions.single+=/seal_of_righteousness,if=talent.empowered_seals.enabled&buff.liadrins_righteousness.remain s<cooldown.judgment.duration*1.5&buff.maraads_truth.remains>cooldown.judgment.duration*1.5 &!buff.bloodlust.up
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&spell_targets.divine_storm=2&holy_power>=4&!tal ent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=buff.divine_purpose.react
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=buff.divine_crusader.react&!talent.final_verdict.enabled
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power>=4&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd* 5)
actions.single+=/exorcism,if=talent.seraphim.enabled
actions.single+=/exorcism,if=holy_power<=3|(holy_power=4&(cooldown.judgment.remains>=gcd*2&cooldown.crusade r_strike.remains>=gcd*2&target.health.pct>35&buff.avenging_wrath.down))
actions.single+=/divine_storm,if=spell_targets.divine_storm=2&holy_power>=3&buff.final_verdict.up
actions.single+=/final_verdict,if=holy_power>=3
actions.single+=/templars_verdict,if=holy_power>=3&(!talent.seraphim.enabled|cooldown.seraphim.remains>gcd* 6)
actions.single+=/holy_prism

[Deleted]

DC normal is almost equal to mythic horn so go based on that

I think I´m too stupid to understand that. how does DC = Horn tells me how a maxed out Skull of War (Link) fares against all those nerfed trinkets. Thinking of it the Alchi-Stone is also upgrade able to 715...

[Deleted]

I think I´m too stupid to understand that. how does DC = Horn tells me how a maxed out Skull of War (Link) fares against all those nerfed trinkets. Thinking of it the Alchi-Stone is also upgrade able to 715...

You need to be careful comparing the trinket list for T17 and that for T18 - they use different gear sets.

[MarshallX]

I passed a WF EDH to our DK...sometimes I'm too nice. Feeling regretful now.

[Ianus]

I passed a WF EDH to our DK...sometimes I'm too nice. Feeling regretful now.

i did that once and guy left the guild next day so wont pass anything nomore if i won fair and square

[Lumineus]

You need to be careful comparing the trinket list for T17 and that for T18 - they use different gear sets.

Speaking of gear, the T18 trinket comparison sim clearly doesn't use 2pc T18 if it continues to value Vial so highly over Horn when the only reason Vial is so strong is because of its two minute cooldown, rather a non-factor when you're using wings once a minute in the generic encounter, which favors trinkets like Horn and, yes, Forgemaster's Insignia, because of their 0.92 PPM.

I'm inclined to say the rankings are skewed by the generic gearset as much as they are by not pairing, which is also deceptive in many cases as you cannot simply add the theoretical increase from two different trinkets together - it doesn't work that way. Forgemaster's is "weak" on its own (again, T18 set bonuses) but pairs nicely with Vial or Horn, for example. This was a problem early in T17 as you can see from the list where the crafted Inscription trinket and Mythic Tectus trinket are both ranked even lower than Heroic Forgemaster's but when used together are much stronger.

[TKTank]

/WorldSmallestViolin

So...my GM quit due to new IRL job and one of our MTs quit, along with some core members deciding to go ultra softcore what made our core basically be done for...

...sooo I'm here applying to a new guild and all, trying to find a new cozy home and basically, as the apply developed they simply stated they have no desire for a Ret whatsoever (even though they don't have one) and the questions shifted more and more if I had Legendary ready alts, my level of play with them, what class could I reroll and perform at the same level...

Seriously, really bad time for a Ret to be guildless...