DK's are a bottom tier class and will be even worse in 6.2

[Rorke]

There's no reason to ever play a DK when Warriors do everything better. Warriors are even going to be better in 6.2 along with Assassination Rogues and Wizards in general.

I'm getting really tired of the pvp community and Blizzard ignoring DK's by keeping the class in its never ending state of just being a damage bot with zero utility, zero team support, almost zero ways to peel ect. It's like nobody gives a shit because for some reason everyone is still stuck with this insane idea that DK's are somehow "fine" when in reality the class has been overall the worst class for quite some time.

Playing a DK is like playing a poor mans Warrior. I don't know how many times I need to repeat this but its true. It is the worst designed class in the game. DK's have to sacrifice everything important for just high sustained pressure and overpowered self healing in 1v1 scenarios. It's great to get 100k Death Siphon heals on PTR except it doesn't actually matter in arena or any team setting where pure healers can do the healing part for you.

6.2 will be the nail in the coffin for this class. It's a class still stuck in season 9 design when its 2015 and other classes have evolved.

I would like to see them change the class. I would like to see some kind of Necrotic Strike mechanic added back in to counter act the fact that DK's have no MS. I would like to see them do something with Death Gate and make it similar to Warlock Portal. I would like them to buff Dark Sim and make it a core mechanic to the class. I would like to see the entire Frost spec redesigned where it can actually scale normally with stats. I would like to see the level 58 talent tier completely redesigned where the class doesn't have to sacrifice it's entire mobility for a stun. I would like to see Icebound Fortitude/Desecrated Ground/Lichborne less idiot proof.

But instead what I get is just the same old shit. Same old shitty class with the same shitty abilities that are completely based around playing like a complete retard. Mash pve rotations while mindlessly smashing anti CC abilities to maintain a brief period of retarded uptime only to get shiv slowed by a Rogue and re CC'd by a Wizard anyway.

There's no joy playing this class even when you win because even when you do win, you never feel like you actually outplayed or outsmarted anybody. It's depressing and its no wonder any actual skilled player never wastes their time with this class. You want to know why almost no high rated streamer plays a DK? Here's your answer.

[Kezotar]

We're a class with spikey DPS and CC immunity, however rather huge lacking mobility and can be slowed and rooted extremely easily.
We do have peels that every class can counter.

That's DK.

Btw, don't bother posting about it here. Everyone here is a Gladiator / R1 / Mythic raider, yet they want to disband the hardcore players (Aka remove Mythic and Rating from Arena).

[Gatsbybutters]

Oh its an ebonheart thread.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...you-wizard.jpg

Infracted. Don't post just to meme-spam/troll. Removed image tags.

[Theed]

Major QQ

If you don't play highrated it may be that you're doing something wrong. DK is very much viable top tier. There are plenty of high rated DKs.

If anything they should increase skillcap on dk, because it is extremly low.

[Wass]

Word of advice to any future repliers to be careful with your posting lest you want to be placed on my naughty list. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, Ryan is entitled to his even if it may differ from yours.

If you think someone is trolling, report it and move on. Don't reply to it and feed the troll.

[Deleted]

Disagrre with you OP. I played with plenty of really good dks, Rbgs as well as high end arenas and many of them stream. They don't feel the same way you do about the class. I personally prefer a warr to a dk, I find it FAR simpler to use and that lets me spend more time focused on whats going on. I wouldn't say Dks were just damage bots though bringing nothing else to the team. Deathgrip is really good to peel with, Amz saved our skins sometimes V op caster burst openings. Really thats just off the top of my head. I'm more concerned about how intent they seem to be to curb stomp surv back down to "only retards play this" status. Just for one expac can I please be allowed to play my favorite spec? please?

[Jasc]

DK is part of TSG which is one of the best comps in the game.

DKs do less damage for a reason. That reason is DKs have tremendous utility. DKs have purge, a great ranged stun, death grip, huge self-healing potential, and are overall pretty bulky and hard to kill if they want to be.

As a DK you will never be able to put a 3s team on your shoulders and carry them to victory. But a lot of classes are like that.

If Warriors could purge and heal themselves for infinity, then they'd do less damage too.

DKs are a super hard counter to Mage and Priest, which alone makes them viable.

[Fenrkyr]

Frost is a bottom tier. Unholy is more than fine. It does well in multiple comps, and is perfectly viable in progression raiding. Frost has so many mechanical problems that limit it in PVE. It does great in random BGs and low skill PVP, and that is why I suspect Blizzard isn't interested in fixing all of its numerous problems.

[Deleted]

I really would like to play my DK, but after doing 2 - 3 CTF BGs (random BGs) I'm healed for a week or two.

Seeing how I cannot do ANYTHING to stop the rogue who just grabbed the flag ist ultra annoying. Everything I do gets countered and 5 seconds later I'm left with nothing and the rogue sprints away. One of the most demotivating situations was in my last WSG, where it was a 1on1 with a rogue (yes again) on the roof who carried the flag and just ran around that block, always keeping LOS up. A DK can do exactly NOTHING in this 1on1 situation, the rogue, or basically almost any other class, would be untouchable in this situation.

After such encounters I can only log out until I forget about it, which usually happens in like a week or two, but after 3 BGs I'm "healed" again.

DK mobility is atrocious, and it should be fixed.

[Deleted]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion

http://i.imgur.com/V6SVMoR.gif
(pls no banerino)

Hey XMD, let me tell you a secret: If a rogue wants to only run away, no class can stop him. Some can catch up for a short time, but no other class has a permanent 60% sprint.
Yeah, DK mobility is very sub-par, but you shouldn't take a rogue as a comparison.

Regarding the rest - I feel that DK is a very limited class, with several idiot-proof mechanisms (Silence if stun immune - really? AMS/Lichborne, Dispell on main attack and so on) that would make them op if they were buffed mobilitywise without nerfing those abilities. But Blizz devs already said that no major changes will come within this expansion, so good luck next time! =/

[solarfallz]

a damage bot with zero utility, zero team support, almost zero ways to peel ect.

Well what the hell do you call an offensive dispel, death grip, chains of ice, asphyxiate?

[Deleted]

Don't worry you're a bottom tier player and troll but you're still here, dks will be fine

Infracted

[Omaski]

i disagree with everything OP said....i play ret pally (main) and dk:

1. dks are still specifically asked for in RBG teams for either TC'ing or for Rot Comp.
2. yes dks dont have a MS but you have a "damn-near" spammable purge
3. still hard as hell to kill while sitting in blood presence

just be happy you arent a ret pally who struggles to find any groups in pvp

[Deleted]

just be happy you arent a ret pally who struggles to find any groups in pvp

You can't say that. Just because class A is doing really badly, it doesn't mean the issues of class B should be ignored cos "well at least yr not class A"

[theostrichsays]

i disagree with everything OP said....i play ret pally (main) and dk:

1. dks are still specifically asked for in RBG teams for either TC'ing

This right here... if you can play a DK even... somewhat decently. If you are a decent target caller, who is clear over voice chat and can make decisive decisions (dude you can be wrong sometimes, just don't waffle around and make people doubtful, just commit) you will find a home on many RBG teams who are in that sub 1800 range.

But reading the OP, it kind of sounds like you're just not having fun playing the class anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

http://i.imgur.com/V6SVMoR.gif
(pls no banerino)

Hey XMD, let me tell you a secret: If a rogue wants to only run away, no class can stop him. Some can catch up for a short time, but no other class has a permanent 60% sprint.

Perma Sprint, plus Bug the Floors from Above... err death from above. Hey rogue flag carrier who hasn't gotten out of the room let me catch you in the horde side bottom tunnel... oh death from above... oh you're on the floor above me now... yay! (Yes more then a little salt was provided in tthe typing of this comment.)

[Omaski]

You can't say that. Just because class A is doing really badly, it doesn't mean the issues of class B should be ignored cos "well at least yr not class A"

My point isnt that dk issues should be ignored, i was using ret pallies as an example that his reasons for not liking the class arent so bad if he takes a step back and look at what everyone else is experiencing. many of OP complains were wrong and like i said, dks are still asked for specifically and they bring alot of utility in grips, purging (big one!!!), and hvy hitter w/o CDs.

now if i wanted to complain...most of what he said about dks i can say about ret pallies...no threatening damage outside wings, easiest melee to be CC'ed, non-exclusive pointless utility (nobody post in RBG LFG "LF ret pally for xtra utility").

it just seems like he doesnt know how good he has it playing a dk

[Arkura]

I think DKs are viable as they are now, frost is even getting buffed and AMS is getting stronger for DPS DKs next patch.

[giono06]

This is why the game blows right now. People say their class needs something or why can't my class be like that class. Why don't I have something like that ability? In return what do you get homogenization. Every class needs a stun, every class needs a cc, every class needs a heal, and every class needs a cd. What is the result? you get an expansion like WoD.

IMO instead of complaining find out what your class strengths are and not on what you don't have. If you don't like your strengths then reroll. All classes have strengths and weaknesses.

[Rorke]

I think DKs are viable as they are now, frost is even getting buffed and AMS is getting stronger for DPS DKs next patch.

The AMS change was a PvE one. Every single change outside of the specific PVP set bonus changes are all PvE changes. They simply do not give a shit about PvP balancing this expansion.

Frost is a bottom tier. Unholy is more than fine. It does well in multiple comps, and is perfectly viable in progression raiding. Frost has so many mechanical problems that limit it in PVE. It does great in random BGs and low skill PVP, and that is why I suspect Blizzard isn't interested in fixing all of its numerous problems.

I'm tired of reading this. You know why? Because Unholy sucks in PvP. Frost is literally the only viable spec for this class at higher mmr. Unholy sucks because multistrike ruined the spec, unholy might passive is shitty 5% total strength value and necrotic strike is not in the game anymore. This leaves Unholy with shitty Scourge Strike that deals next to nothing in terms of damage. You're better off spamming fucking Death Siphon and you probably won't notice a difference, that's how shitty Scourge Strike is.

Frost is also more durable than Unholy because Frost ignores set bonuses and goes straight for Versatility. Unholy is a glass cannon because you need the set bonuses and you have to stack shitty mastery that does nothing other than add more unnoticeable passive shadow damage that doesn't matter.

Unholy just sucks. It suffers the same problem as Sub. Deals next to nothing in terms of damage that actually matters.

DK is part of TSG which is one of the best comps in the game.

DKs do less damage for a reason. That reason is DKs have tremendous utility. DKs have purge, a great ranged stun, death grip, huge self-healing potential, and are overall pretty bulky and hard to kill if they want to be.

As a DK you will never be able to put a 3s team on your shoulders and carry them to victory. But a lot of classes are like that.

If Warriors could purge and heal themselves for infinity, then they'd do less damage too.

DKs are a super hard counter to Mage and Priest, which alone makes them viable.

Yeah we'll see how "good" TSG is next patch. I'll wager that it'll be complete trash with the rise of Frost Mage/Warlock damage next patch.

We'll see how good that DK survivability is next patch when Wizards will just nuke a DK with AMS on CD through Blood Presence/IBF. DK's are lucky today to even be allowed in Unholy/Frost presence, but that will change next patch. Expect to sit in Blood Presence (which is inferior to Defensive Stance) 100% of the time while being punished offensively thanks to Blood Presence punishing you and you'll probably need to waste more resources on Death Siphon half the time to even live.

Do Warriors have to worry about that? Nope. Warriors can also swap stances with no penalty. Not as if rage is a real resource anyway because Warriors can basically mash whatever they want with no restrictions or risk of punishment. With DK, everything feels like a restriction. Hit purge Icy Touch and you lose Obliterate. Spam purge and you lose all of your damage which is the only thing the class actually brings.

DK's would be far better off with an MS effect over a stupid purge that Wizards can cover anyway. This is another factor that makes Warriors superior. Warriors have MS, and MS fits better for a class that is all about damage.

Warriors have all of the team utility too. Rallying Cry is a crucial cool down that's almost on the same level as spirit link. Mass Spell Reflection/Intervene/Safeguard are all abilities that help the team. Don't forget about a free aoe fear + Shockwave that can CC an entire team every 30ish seconds.

DK grip and Asphyxiate have nothing on Warrior CC and utility. Everything DK's can do is based around single target only. The class has no powerful aoe damage abilities or CC. Warriors have Bladestorm/Whirlwind/Rend spreading actually cd's/abilities that do actual meaningful damage. DK death and decay is shit, DK BoS is shit, DK dots are shit. The only damage that DK's can do that matter is Obliterate KM procs that are inconsistent and random.

Warrior burst damage is completely superior to DK "burst" damage. A Mastery stacked Enraged Fury Warrior with Recklessness/Avatar/Sudden Death/Siegbreaker is probably the most insane burst from a melee in the game. DK's of both Unholy/Frost don't even come close. You might as well throw shitty Pillar of Frost in the trash can because it sucks compared to Warrior dps cool downs.

The only thing Frost has over Fury, is higher sustained damage only because of Fallen Crusader buff. This slight advantage completely depends on the DK actually not wasting runes on Icy Touch/Ice of Chains/Death Strike. Otherwise, the Warrior is dealing more sustained damage because Warriors have almost zero resource penalties for anything they do.

The biggest advantage that Warriors have over DK's is that Warriors never have to worry about throttling damage for survivability. There's never an "off" button with Warrior. Warriors can safely sit in Defensive Stance for free 20% mitigation and constantly mash a damage rotation to maintain pressure. If the Warrior gets tunneled, he can hit DbTS and still tunnel and deal 100% normal damage. Even on the rare occasion the Warrior has to pull back, he can do it instantly with Heroic Leap/Intervene and be safe.

DK's on the other hand have to constantly throttle damage for survivability if the DK is being trained. Blood Presence is not enough passively to keep the DK alive. DK's can't run away or "heroic leap" out of damage. The only thing the DK can do is take it and spam either Death Strike/Death Siphon to survive. This costs damage, something Warriors never ever have to worry about. The more time a DK is spent in a defensive position, the less damage the DK is dealing. The less damage the DK is doing, the less valuable the DK is.

What saves DK's from being a tunneled target is the fact that Wizards aren't dealing MoP levels of pressure right now. That'll change next patch and DK's will go back to what they were in season 15, complete trash. You won't see a DK above 2.7k mmr next season.

[Theed]

QQ

DK does not need any buffs. Judging from your two armory links in your sig you don't even have full gear and are below 2k. You're free to post feedback but if you're struggleing maybe should practice a bit more more, watch streams, read guides and most importantly play the game with mates you have fun with.

Your class is far from being fotm, i would consider it "overall balanced". Warrior, Mage or Rogue should not be your balancing target. These are just too good.

If you're really concerned about survivability as a DK, you should try playing shadowpriest and be trained all day long by melees. It is far worse, believe me.