Night Elves and the Eastern Kingdoms

[Jaspias]

Why is it that we find no trace of night elven civilization on the Eastern Kingdoms? The large city of Vashj'ir was located just outside of where Stormwind would later be built, and with no humans to occupy the space between the dwarves to the north and trolls to the south, one would think that night elven ruins or even still populated cities would be numerous, yet it would seem the first night elves to set foot on the Eastern Kingdoms are the Highborn who would later become the high elves. Why would a vast city like Vashj'ir be located so far east, yet not a single settlement would remain past that point? Was someone else occupying the land at that time, someone so strong that even the night elves at the pinnacle of their power could not remove? (Stormwind Old God confirmed?) But seriously, it is weird.

[Aquamonkey]

The NElf empire never seemed to extend that far. That area was still occupied by the trolls.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

It's possible the ruins might not exist anymore, as that's a large portion of human kingdom. It's also possible, and more likely, that the trolls simply refused to let them have that portion of Kalimdor - much of that area is where the Gurubashi tribes lived. Here's a present day map, which would give an indication of where the troll lands are in relation to Vashj'ir and the human kingdoms, immediately North.

The night elves were definitely stronger, instead of pushing the trolls out again, they may have left them alone for whatever reason, or the trolls and humans destroyed everything left in between the present day and the Sundering.

[Nyctanessa]

Seradane and the Twilight Grove seem to have night elven architecture, but I don't think we know if the ruins are pre-Sundering or post-Third War.

[Aquamonkey]

The Night Elves didn't go about conquering. Their destruction of the Trolls' Empire was a response to Troll aggression.

You have that backwards. The NElves were very much about expansionism. They are the ones who instigated the war to take troll lands.

The night elves' magic quickly allowed them to establish a strong empire. As the night elves claimed further territory, they came into conflict with the trolls in the area, who had long dominated much of ancient Kalimdor. Unable to master arcane magic quickly enough to counter the night elves' sudden and fierce attacks, the trolls were forced to retreat. Thus was born the long-standing feud between night elves and trolls, an enmity which persists to this day. (WC Encyclopedia)

[Deleted]

You have that backwards. The NElves were very much about expansionism. They are the ones who instigated the war to take troll lands.

100% agreed - Night Elves had such big empire because conquering trolls and other races. They probably were big and expansive even long before Azshara started to rule, and after she became their queen, kaldorei empire achieved the sumnit of their power.

There probably was no mighty empire in history, that would became powerful only because "reaction to neighbours agression". Empires are caused by conquering the neighbours. Most notable examples from real world: Roman Empire, Macedonian Empire, Mongol Empire of Genghis Khan, Ottoman Empire, British Empire. All of them became big, powerful blobs thank to expansive and aggressive politic. Was the Kaldorei Empire a powerful blob, too? Well, judging how many ruins of their cities are located through almost whole Azeroth - from Norhtrend to south of Kalimdor (Feralas), from west of Kalimdor (Bloodmyst Isle) to Eastern Kindgoms (Vash'ir), they indeed were really big blob.

[Jaspias]

The NElf empire never seemed to extend that far. That area was still occupied by the trolls.

There are no signs of trolls once living there, and if the mighty Night Elves could not push them out, then how did the weak early humans do it and build their kingdom?

[Sal the Shieldhog]

There are no signs of trolls once living there, and if the mighty Night Elves could not push them out, then how did the weak early humans do it and build their kingdom?

The Gurubashi tribes have been living in Strangle since long before recorded history, same with the Amani. Way back when, the 2 greatest troll empires were the Amani in the middle forestlands and the Gurubashi in the southeastern jungles, which is likely why the NEs never went that far. There are troll ruins all over the place, even moreso than Kaldorei architecture.

[Jaspias]

The Gurubashi tribes have been living in Strangle since long before recorded history, same with the Amani. Way back when, the 2 greatest troll empires were the Amani in the middle forestlands and the Gurubashi in the southeastern jungles, which is likely why the NEs never went that far. There are troll ruins all over the place, even moreso than Kaldorei architecture.

The amani go as far south as the hinterlands, and the guruabashi stop at duskwood. was everything between uninhabited?

Edit: Dwarves and Gnomes from the wetlands to redridge, so before the humans settled there, was it empty?

[Cl4nK]

There are no signs of trolls once living there, and if the mighty Night Elves could not push them out, then how did the weak early humans do it and build their kingdom?

The weak early humans didn't beat the trolls and build their kingdom. The only real conflict they had were through small skirmirshes and most of it was in the borders of the land. Humans had more internal war since they were split into tribes, until Thoradin of the Arathi united the tribes and built the first human kingdom, Arathor, with the capital as Strom, in Arathi Highlands.

It was Anasterian Sunstrider (Kael'thas father) who then sent his diplomats to negociate with the humans and ask for help. And for some unkown reason, the humans had a natural affinity for magic that even the Helves were startled. And from there we know how things went.

[Sal the Shieldhog]

The amani go as far south as the hinterlands, and the guruabashi stop at duskwood. was everything between uninhabited?

Edit: Dwarves and Gnomes from the wetlands to redridge, so before the humans settled there, was it empty?

The weak early humans didn't beat the trolls and build their kingdom. The only real conflict they had were through small skirmirshes and most of it was in the borders of the land. Humans had more internal war since they were split into tribes, until Thoradin of the Arathi united the tribes and built the first human kingdom, Arathor, with the capital as Strom, in Arathi Highlands.

It was Anasterian Sunstrider (Kael'thas father) who then sent his diplomats to negociate with the humans and ask for help. And for some unkown reason, the humans had a natural affinity for magic that even the Helves were startled. And from there we know how things went.

And before even the Night Elves, the trolls' reigned supreme. They pre-date even the Titans' arrival on Azeroth - trolls lived all over the original Kalimdor, before and after the Aqir, the Night Elves, everyone.

[Jaspias]

The weak early humans didn't beat the trolls and build their kingdom. The only real conflict they had were through small skirmirshes and most of it was in the borders of the land. Humans had more internal war since they were split into tribes, until Thoradin of the Arathi united the tribes and built the first human kingdom, Arathor, with the capital as Strom, in Arathi Highlands.

It was Anasterian Sunstrider (Kael'thas father) who then sent his diplomats to negociate with the humans and ask for help. And for some unkown reason, the humans had a natural affinity for magic that even the Helves were startled. And from there we know how things went.

That is the story of the Arathi vs. The Amani, the area in question is Stormwind, a place where no humans should be 10,000 years ago, there is no trace of trolls dwarves and night elves there, which is odd considering the massive elven city of Vashj'ir is so close and Zul'Gurub and Ironforge are a stones throw away. The primitive humans had no problem settling Tirisfal as the more magically adept trolls and elves avoided the place like the plague because something dark there made them go crazy. They had plenty of time to build a civilization capable of fighting the post-sundering trolls. But Elwynn forest, Duskwood, and Westfall have nothing that shows that anything other than humans had lived there. Humans didn't exist before the Sundering, so what the hell was there before?

[Cl4nK]

That is the story of the Arathi vs. The Amani, the area in question is Stormwind, a place where no humans should be 10,000 years ago, there is no trace of trolls dwarves and night elves there, which is odd considering the massive elven city of Vashj'ir is so close and Zul'Gurub and Ironforge are a stones throw away. The primitive humans had no problem settling Tirisfal as the more magically adept trolls and elves avoided the place like the plague because something dark there made them go crazy. They had plenty of time to build a civilization capable of fighting the post-sundering trolls. But Elwynn forest, Duskwood, and Westfall have nothing that shows that anything other than humans had lived there. Humans didn't exist before the Sundering, so what the hell was there before?

Elwynn forest, Dustkwood and Westfall were probably troll lands as well, considering the distance to the other trolls settlements around, in the Blasted lands/Swamp of Sorrows and to the south into Stranglethorn Valley. Also, there are ruins in the shores of Tirisfall glades, mostly habitated by murlocs nowadays, or at least back in Vanilla.

If we look back before the sundering, the Well of Eternity was basically in the center of Kalimdor, with the Elves settling around it, while the Trolls remained alongside the borders and the coasts.

While this picture isn't anywhere near being official, it gives a good visual aid to how things were mostly likely before.

[Jaspias]

Elwynn forest, Dustkwood and Westfall were probably troll lands as well, considering the distance to the other trolls settlements around, in the Blasted lands/Swamp of Sorrows and to the south into Stranglethorn Valley. Also, there are ruins in the shores of Tirisfall glades, mostly habitated by murlocs nowadays, or at least back in Vanilla.

If we look back before the sundering, the Well of Eternity was basically in the center of Kalimdor, with the Elves settling around it, while the Trolls remained alongside the borders and the coasts.

While this picture isn't anywhere near being official, it gives a good visual aid to how things were mostly likely before.

It DOES make sense that the Trolls would inhabit these lands, but how would the humans even get there and take the land from the trolls? we know the story of the Troll Wars in the north, but in the south it should have been impossible for tribal humans to get a stronghold their, let alone found a kingdom there. Imagine playing a game of Civ 5 where you get your first settler and he is embarked outside a massive civilization already well into the classical era.
The only explanation I can think of is that the night elves held the area, but when they were isolated after most of their empire sunk the trolls managed to wipe them out. But then what stopped the trolls from building there? Something evil under the ground like in Tirisfal? If it was some superstitious troll voodoo belief that the land was evil, what then stopped the dwarves? The only way primitive man could settle there is if it was empty, and I will not rest until I find out why!

[Friendlyimmolation]

It DOES make sense that the Trolls would inhabit these lands, but how would the humans even get there and take the land from the trolls? we know the story of the Troll Wars in the north, but in the south it should have been impossible for tribal humans to get a stronghold their, let alone found a kingdom there. Imagine playing a game of Civ 5 where you get your first settler and he is embarked outside a massive civilization already well into the classical era.
The only explanation I can think of is that the night elves held the area, but when they were isolated after most of their empire sunk the trolls managed to wipe them out. But then what stopped the trolls from building there? Something evil under the ground like in Tirisfal? If it was some superstitious troll voodoo belief that the land was evil, what then stopped the dwarves? The only way primitive man could settle there is if it was empty, and I will not rest until I find out why!

The trolls in all their intelligence, realized that if they got too close to humans, that they would lose all story development. So they instead retreated into their empire and wrote down 100 years worth of troll content for when Blizzard cant think of anything else.

[lokinrond713]

There a few but theyre limited to the nightmare portals.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Blizzard thought 'hey let's say night elves are highly evolved descendents of the tusked turds and start our own version of evolution debate'.

Most successful external lore discrepancy in the history of the game.

When I first started playing Warcraft I thought Trolls were the decedents of retarded offspring that the Night elves sent in the forest to die.

[Jaspias]

There a few but theyre limited to the nightmare portals.

Oh yeah, I forgot the portals! This opens up a new can of worms, as the Night Elves had easy access to the Eastern Kingdoms through the Emerald Dream, leaving no reason as to why the Eastern Kingdoms was abandoned

[Deleted]

How does that quote say they were expansionist? Trolls had it coming, like they always do .
The only race they drove out were the trolls. And it was because the trolls are aggressive and xenophobic. It's the same reason they got their asses kicked by humans, high elves, Horde and Alliance routinely throughout history.

How would you feel when your retarded cousin gets arcane powers and bad foresight by drinking the pool of glowing coolaide the Zandalari told you not to touch.

Also, Zandalar was close to centre of Kalimdor and was never conquered, Why is that?

[Deleted]

Blizzard thought 'hey let's say night elves are highly evolved descendents of the tusked turds and start our own version of evolution debate'.

Most successful external lore discrepancy in the history of the game.

Actually, it's more Arcane Mutation than Evolution.

Trolls were pretty much the master race and only the reckless use of Arcane and Demonic power saw them raise above their Brothers as a dominant power.

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Would've made more sense. They were the factory rejects and irregulars from the production line.

Those factory Rejects with superior physical strength, better senses, better durability and regeneration faction.

Alongside their stronger connection to the Primal Spirits of the world and the Elements.