No 720 Bow and 715 on second to last boss?

[haniburr]

That's one way to stealth nerf a class i guess at the launch of a teir and not have the QQ en masse.

Brb going back to fire lands and complaining about best healing trinket dropping off the 2nd last boss and not sooner. Maybe I'll do the same and go to DS and have best healing trinket drop off the 2nd last boss. That was 2 teirs in a row with (at least a resto druids) best healing trinkets coming off 2nd to last boss and I would easily say a trinket affected healing more than a weapon did during those times(Legendary staff and 1h mace jukey proc aside)

[HeiAggra]

hunter complains about doing only 2 times more dmg than all other classes and not 3 times

True, we Hunter should do 5Xtimes more damage then any other class since he always get the shitty jobs inraids and all other can slack and hit the boss

[l33t]

Because it doesn't feel rewarding when easier bosses drops the same ilvl gear as the harder bosses further on in the raid. so they made it so the last few bosses drops higher ilvl gear than the first bosses to feel like the effort matches the reward.

No, you should stop believing in shit Blizzard are pouring through your ears. The system was perfectly OK for years; they just want to you to spend more time on farming. First they implement a triple RNG over warforged/socket items, now this. I am absolutely OK if last boss drops higher ilvl loot than the rest of the raid instance, but a system like this creates nothing but a total absense of any class balance humanly possible.

Also, OT, you don't really understand what you are talking about. Having a weapon from first boss with perfect stats means you'll get a damage boost on progression, exactly when it matters. And your caster friends will suck for months until they'll manage to even have a chance to reach your numbers with oh-so-high ilvl drops and class trinkets from last boss, lol. I believe right at this point we can safely call this expansion: "Hunters of Draenor", because it really is pointless to play any other dps class when you can play hunter and be golden.

[Zyky]

You do know only not even half has a 720 weapon and you complain that only hunters don't get one when the other classes doesn't get one either. There is only a strength 2hand and a spellcaster staff from last boss that is 720, that means warrior tanks, dualwield DK, rogues, tank/healer paladin, monk, druid tank/cat, shaman and so on don't get a weapon at max ilvl. In addition to that there is no tank shield at 720 or 715 so they get even lower at 710.

There's also a 1H caster mace(haste/multi) so pretty bad for most 1h mace users, outside the ele shaman/resto druid family lol

[Deleted]

The game is not about how much damage you deal with BiS gear, it's how much you deal on progress. Stop playing mind-diablo. Having three(!) weapons gated in ONE tier is AMAZING!

[Deleted]

Well, after you kill last boss gear doesn't matter. Therefore the classes that have the highest ilvl weps from Archimonde are less useful for progress(besides, melee earned have earned a nice raid spot at the bench this expansion).

Getting a Mythic level weapon right off the bat from the first boss that benefits your entire mythic progress is way better than farm-hurr-durr weapon from last boss.

Doesn't work that way. You have to think the bosses linearly. Archimonde heroic dies before Hellfire Assault mythic. Melee and casters get 720 weapons from Archimonde heroic. Then mythic Hellfire Assault dies, so a hunter gets the 720 weapon. You're not ahead of the others despite the weapon having the mythic tag. It's the weakest ilvl boss in the raid, so the item levels are actually the same, despite one being heroic and the other mythic.

Then scroll forward, and you'll see the hunters can update to 725 on the 8th boss. Casters can update to 725 on the 5th (and 6th, and 7th). Warriors get a one hander 725 from the 8th, and a 730 2 hander from the 9th. Hunters need to wait untill the 12th boss to get their 730 one (by comparison casters get their 730 from the 10th already), and that's the last upgrade they'll get, while other classes still have a 735 one coming from the 13th boss.

So basically, hunters will always be 5 item levels behind on weapons throughout progress, and when progress ends they are still 5 item levels behind.

Let's not also forget the fact that Archimonde only drops 735 hands, neck and trinket for the Hunter class as a whole (3 items), while the Warriors get 735 weapon, neck, shoulders, trinket, cloak, feet (6 items). Casters get 5 items. Rogues 4.

Basically once everyone have bis gear, Hunters will be lower item level by a noticeable margin. And once again, this applies to heroic too, which means that heroic Archimonde drops 6 pieces of 'Mythic first four bosses quality' gear for plate DPS, but only 3 for Hunters.

I agree that the people doing the itemisation are smoking crack. Hunters are the number one most screwed class by the itemisation, with Rogues coming second. I just can't feel sad for the Rogues, since the Soul Capacitor trinket is 3x more powerful than any weapon. On PTR 30% of the Rogues damage was coming from that one proc.

As a last note I'd like to complain about Soul Capacitor being in the Hunter loot list (agi trinket), which means it's coinable and missionable, while the proc makes it undoubtedly a melee-only trinket. It means a lot of coins and mission caches worldwide will be wasted when Hunters get that crap from it.

[KuramaTotchi]

I like the way it was during Ulduar honestly. Do the hard mode of a boss -> get better rewards for that boss.

[Ryanite]

Kensai has just invalidated every single persons argument for this ridiculous scaling ilvl.

- - - Updated - - -

I just had a thought, hunters and rogues are the most effected by this but they are also the doer of things. What if this is blizzards intention since if there's a thing to do hunters and rogues are taken anyway, what if this is a way to help the class spread on progression?

[Bad Ashe]

too bad it's 10 ilvls lower than the other bow and 15 lower than the BiS strength wep, can take those perfect stats and flush them down the toilet.

With even ilvl BM would have a BiS wep off the first boss and still the class trinket to look forward to by the end.

this is why different item level gear within the same instance is a horrible idea.

9000 GEARSCORE HUNTER LFG!!!!!

[Finbezz]

Doesn't work that way. You have to think the bosses linearly. Archimonde heroic dies before Hellfire Assault mythic. Melee and casters get 720 weapons from Archimonde heroic. Then mythic Hellfire Assault dies, so a hunter gets the 720 weapon. You're not ahead of the others despite the weapon having the mythic tag. It's the weakest ilvl boss in the raid, so the item levels are actually the same, despite one being heroic and the other mythic.

Then scroll forward, and you'll see the hunters can update to 725 on the 8th boss. Casters can update to 725 on the 5th (and 6th, and 7th). Warriors get a one hander 725 from the 8th, and a 730 2 hander from the 9th. Hunters need to wait untill the 12th boss to get their 730 one (by comparison casters get their 730 from the 10th already), and that's the last upgrade they'll get, while other classes still have a 735 one coming from the 13th boss.

So basically, hunters will always be 5 item levels behind on weapons throughout progress, and when progress ends they are still 5 item levels behind.

Let's not also forget the fact that Archimonde only drops 735 hands, neck and trinket for the Hunter class as a whole (3 items), while the Warriors get 735 weapon, neck, shoulders, trinket, cloak, feet (6 items). Casters get 5 items. Rogues 4.

Basically once everyone have bis gear, Hunters will be lower item level by a noticeable margin. And once again, this applies to heroic too, which means that heroic Archimonde drops 6 pieces of 'Mythic first four bosses quality' gear for plate DPS, but only 3 for Hunters.

I agree that the people doing the itemisation are smoking crack. Hunters are the number one most screwed class by the itemisation, with Rogues coming second. I just can't feel sad for the Rogues, since the Soul Capacitor trinket is 3x more powerful than any weapon. On PTR 30% of the Rogues damage was coming from that one proc.

As a last note I'd like to complain about Soul Capacitor being in the Hunter loot list (agi trinket), which means it's coinable and missionable, while the proc makes it undoubtedly a melee-only trinket. It means a lot of coins and mission caches worldwide will be wasted when Hunters get that crap from it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Other classes get to start mythic prog with the highest ilvl weps possible. Hunters and a few others don't.

[Ealyssa]

It was perfectly fine until Blizzard "fixed" it. Like always.

Actually no, it wasn't fine at all. Actually they are 100% spot on when they say that killing Blackhand (or any of the harder bosses) feel pointless to the great majority of guilds allready killing half of the raid in the next difficulty level.

Loot level should be on par with the difficulty to obtain it. Either by increasing ilvl the fartest you go. Or by streamlining the difficulty. Blizzard choose the first option. And IMO it's a good one.

[eschatological]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Other classes get to start mythic prog with the highest ilvl weps possible. Hunters and a few others don't.

Not to mention with all the split runs the top guilds do, you can pretty solidly get those Heroic Archimonde weapons on a few people you need them on, whereas you'll be lucky to get one hunter weapon off Mythic Hellfire Assault in the first week.

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Actually no, it wasn't fine at all. Actually they are 100% spot on when they say that killing Blackhand (or any of the harder bosses) feel pointless to the great majority of guilds allready killing half of the raid in the next difficulty level.

Loot level should be on par with the difficulty to obtain it. Either by increasing ilvl the fartest you go. Or by streamlining the difficulty. Blizzard choose the first option. And IMO it's a good one.

Maybe it's bad for people who spend 4 months farming 5/10M to kill the next 3 bosses....but is that what we're defining the loot system around?

[Deleted]

Actually no, it wasn't fine at all. Actually they are 100% spot on when they say that killing Blackhand (or any of the harder bosses) feel pointless to the great majority of guilds allready killing half of the raid in the next difficulty level.

Loot level should be on par with the difficulty to obtain it. Either by increasing ilvl the fartest you go. Or by streamlining the difficulty. Blizzard choose the first option. And IMO it's a good one.

100% agree.

Killing Blackhand on Normal, Heroic and Mythic is absolutely pointless in terms of character progression.
This results in people not wanting to invest the effort.. Most early bosses in the next difficulty/content are easier to manage and drop better loot.

[Tharkkun]

this is why different item level gear within the same instance is a horrible idea.

9000 GEARSCORE HUNTER LFG!!!!!

Not really. All they would need to do is add a weapon for each class to Archimonde and remove a few of the 324325 armor pieces.

[Hamanis]

So I have to ask, why it can just be that this is Blizzards way of trying to normalize DPS once everyone has gotten gear? IE A Hunter would out DPS a shaman if they had the same ilevel weapons, but if the Shaman had X Ilevel higher one that then Hunter they performed equal damage? Seems like most likely are just looking at the fact that someone will have on average a higher gear set ilevel but doesnt necessarily mean you are going to be out DPS'd by every class that can get a weapon from that boss.

I am not saying that this is why they are doing it, I have no idea why they decided to do it like they have but makes since in terms of trying to get a better overall balance.

[Deleted]

they could just change weapon dps for that.

Like.. 2h having more dps than 1h and Guns less than 2h but more than 1h etc.
Wouldn't make a difference from what you just said though, just less itemlevel QQing.

[Hamanis]

they could just change weapon dps for that.

Like.. 2h having more dps than 1h and Guns less than 2h but more than 1h etc.

But if at the end of the day, the result is the same why does it matter how they go about it? You theoritically have better damage for the progression fights this way (Assuming classes who have weapons from the Archi have their "BiS" damage equal to that of hunters in "BiS") which is more important than killing it once its on farm.

[l33t]

So I have to ask, why it can just be that this is Blizzards way of trying to normalize DPS once everyone has gotten gear? IE A Hunter would out DPS a shaman if they had the same ilevel weapons, but if the Shaman had X Ilevel higher one that then Hunter they performed equal damage? Seems like most likely are just looking at the fact that someone will have on average a higher gear set ilevel but doesnt necessarily mean you are going to be out DPS'd by every class that can get a weapon from that boss.

I am not saying that this is why they are doing it, I have no idea why they decided to do it like they have but makes since in terms of trying to get a better overall balance.

Only an idiot would balance classes around having or not having a special loot piece, that's why.

Fits modern Blizzard though. Don't forget to take a selfie and to post in shitter!

[Heltoray]

Really not amused by this... was pissed about BRF weapon drops already, but this is really just unfair

[Lord Pebbleton]

I'm still rocking heroic Crystalline Branch of the Brackenspore (Ilvl670).
The last BRF heroic bosses are so messy I've given up. Don't wanna do the same with Hellfire Citadel.