Claire McCaskil and SJW rage on Game of thrones. (spoilers mentioned)

[Deleted]

Its great to see Mall Cop doing his thing again funny stuff! Preach on my SJW brother!

[zephid]

Keep in mind, that this is also the same series people have mentioned plays Incest as not really a big deal. Honestly at this point I am sure if one of the characters fucked a horse, you'd have people who wonder what the big deal is about it.

On the other hand incest wasn't uncommon within the royal families in medieval times. Plenty of kings/queens/princes/princesses etc married their own relatives.

[Lolretadin]

These are some well-articulated objections, mate.

Im' sure GRRM will immediately be amending all his books as soon as he reads it.

Our history doesn't have Treants, but the people in LotR world still has gravity. This is bullshit, J.R.R. Tolken doesn't get to decide what parts of our reality he omits, it's not like it's creative writing, it MUST be historically accurate to have anything pertaining to the real world in it.

[Deleted]

I thought that scene was more about Theon being forced to watch. Like it will be transformational for him. I think the sex between Ramsey and Sansa was probably not out of the ordinary for arranged wedding nights.

[infinitemeridian]

wow another pointless throw away of the tag "SJW"

definitely dont see alot of those nowadays.

Same thing is happening with rape. It's sad that rape is the new communism these days.

[zephid]

UH NO! Our history also never fucking included dragons or any of the other bullshit, and as far as omitting reality, let's not even go down that LOTRs trend BS!

It doesn't matter that our history didn't include dragons, magic etc. The point is that sexual violence has always been a part of war/struggle for power, and it will probably always be a part of it. Not having that aspect in a war that takes place in a fictional universe only makes it seem even less believable.

[Pterodactylus]

Liberal Logic at it's finest

She is no liberal.

[Deleted]

Ramsey peels the skin off of living people for entertainment. He is not Prince Charming. Did anyone expect any different from his wedding night?

[smokii]

i read a good blogpost today responding to all the whining over this scene, if i can find it, i'll update my post.

but essentially, the GoT show producers have made the decision to blend 2 characters and merge storylines to make the show run better - sansa's time in the aerie was incredibly boring and feck all happened, the girl who was supposed to be a faux arya (planted by the lannisters) was the one supposed to be raped.

but, using sansa just adds a whole new dimension to theons torture.

GoT is truly dark and horrific, but then thats exactly why i like it and if people are too sensitive to accept what happens, then yea, maybe they shouldn't watch it - but it's art, it's supposed to elicit an emotional response. if it can cause huge internet uproar like this, then it truly is a masterpiece of our time.

[Independent voter]

I like the book version of Khaleesi's nuptials than the TV version.



In the book, Khalessi wasn't raped by Drogo after marrying him. She knew as a princess she was going to have to marry for political reasons and that might mean she married a 60 year old or a 6 year old. When she saw Drogo she thought daaaaamn, he's hunky. And Drogo was kind, bought her a nice wedding present. So she decided to go with it, if anything it go her away from her abusive brother.

Isn't that a better story?

[idunnowatdo]

i wonder what her thoughts where on oberyn getting his head popped like a grape. or the red wedding. those must of been fine then. might not be the show fer her. this is probably going to blow up in their faces theon/reek was also in the scene and he was fucked up just as bad by ramsay

[THE Bigzoman]

Good, rape isn't romantic, it shouldn't be a plot device constantly propped up as some sort of none event. Entertainment does have an influence, whether people want to admit that some times or not.

Good. Violence isn't a good thing, it shouldn't be a plot device constantly propped up as some sort of none event. Entertainment does have an influence, whether people want to admit that some times or not.

Well, aren't you just a fucking buzzkill.

[PuppetShowJustice]

UH NO! Our history also never fucking included dragons or any of the other bullshit, and as far as omitting reality, let's not even go down that LOTRs trend BS!

Did you even read the quote? There's a reason he directly mentions the fantasy element.

[Doctor Amadeus]

It doesn't matter that our history didn't include dragons, magic etc. The point is that sexual violence has always been a part of war/struggle for power, and it will probably always be a part of it. Not having that aspect in a war that takes place in a fictional universe only makes it seem even less believable.

Yeah, that is just the point though, it's fictional, so the incest and the rest isn't actually a part of the story at all, it serves nothing but a plot device, there is nothing about the show that is based on reality, period.

[Deleted]

I find the apparent controversy ridiculous and inconsistent

You got people saying it didn't happen in the book (which it did just with another character) then people saying it's a cheap mechanic. Reality rape is a consitant reality in Westeros worst been children which was noted in Season 1. If people wanna be hypocritical over this let them be

I mean FFS the show has a disclaimer

[Deleted]

A) So fucking what? Lots of shit doesn't happen in the books. This is a better plot for the actors and writers.

It's true a lot of stuff is different from the books. When that is a result of time and budgetary constraints that's one thing. When it results in a poorer story, it's not. And I most certainly think that this is a poorer story.

B) Logical? Logically if she were to marry him she'd have to have sex with him. Logically we know that he's a fucked up person. Logically we know that she doesn't want to fuck him or be married to him. Logically he'd have to rape her because of points mentioned above. Logically they cut shit out of the story because they're seen as boring as fuck. Also, logically, time limitations. Holy shit.

It's true that once you get Sansa into Ramsay's bedchamber the logical progression of events is for her to be raped. That's not the problem. In fact taken in isolation the scene was a great piece of television. The problem is the preceding events - LF's plot to get Sansa to Winterfell. It's illogical. So it really does look as though D+D just jumped through a lot of hoops to make this happen, rather than it being a natural progression of events.

C) People who rant and rave about the books being different from the show don't understand anything about making a show. You do realize that the show writers are not the book writers, and that they will finish the TV show long before the writer of the books finish the books, right? They are setting up the story that they want to see. Sure they get some input from the book writer, but they're going with their own artistic interpretation.

I think you people have issues with artistic freedom. You SHOULD be looking at the show and the books as different things. They aren't the same and have never been the same. They both stand on their own.

The books and the show are different, but not separate. Every decision in the show is made in some reference to the books. Every scene they look at the books and they either decide that a certain part of the books should be included, or it should be cut/changed/streamlined/expanded upon etc. etc. The Winterfell plot line in ADWD was far more than just Jeyne being raped. There was plotting and intrigue, Theon's development. It really is odd that they bent over backwards to ensure that Jeyne's rape was included, even without Jeyne in the show, but everything else of note in the Winterfell plot was cut. That says a lot about how the show runners view the story - as a succession of cheap shocks and nothing more. They read the brilliantly disturbing and claustrophobic Reek Chapters in ADWD, and what did they take away from it? A girl being raped, and they had to have that on the show, but nothing else.

I have no problem with artistic freedom. They have every right to write what they did. Doesn't mean I cannot criticise it.

[THE Bigzoman]

The "It wasn't in the books" argument is stupid, there are a lot of us who didn't read the books and don't care. I didn't read the books first for the same reason I didn't read the Harry Potter books first, the books make the shows/movies terrible and I can't enjoy them as much.

Happened to me with Eragon. Loved the movie, Read the book, loved the book, watched the movie again, Hate the movie.

Andrea is still alive in the walking dead comics.

The crazed governor killed her at the end of season 3.

I'm so fucking done with this sereis. What Bullshit I say!

[zephid]

Yeah, that is just the point though, it's fictional, so the incest and the rest isn't actually a part of the story at all, it serves nothing but a plot device, there is nothing about the show that is based on reality, period.

It is part of the story since Martin decided to include it in the world he created. And it's obvious Martin took inspiration from our own history when he wrote the books.

The rape scene is in the books, it's not something they just decided to add in the TV-show. The obvious difference is however that it didn't happen to Sansa, it happened to an other girl. But since they decided to merge her story with Sansa's in the show it makes sense that they also include the rape.

[Deleted]

It's true that once you get Sansa into Ramsay's bedchamber the logical progression of events is for her to be raped. That's not the problem. In fact taken in isolation the scene was a great piece of television. The problem is the preceding events - LF's plot to get Sansa to Winterfell. It's illogical. So it really does look as though D+D just jumped through a lot of hoops to make this happen, rather than it being a natural progression of events.

Do you actually know Little Fingers end game? Reality is he knew exactly what would happen to Sansa, his only interest is power! Frame Sansa, rescue her, marry her to Boltons, tell Cersei, get more power aka Warden of the North then probably betray Cersei in secret again

[Doctor Amadeus]

These are some well-articulated objections, mate.

Im' sure GRRM will immediately be amending all his books as soon as he reads it.

Don't care if he does or not, just like I don't care what happens in Game of Thrones or watch it, but hearing about it reading about it, I support the Senator on this, it is valid concern regarding entertainment influence.