Resto druid Mythic Blast furnace. SoTF vs Inc

[Kestaa]

Hey there,
So my guild is progressing on mythic blast furnace of course. I have been playing feral however our h paladin missed for 2 days. Our normal raid comp is Rshaman, Dpriest, Hpaladin, Rdruid, MW Monk. So this week i went resto for farm and our mythic blast furnace attempts. I was running SoTF and our other resto druid was running Incarnation (and has been for ever pull) My thought process is that 50% empowered wild growth for the entire fight would be far superior to the 3min incarnation. Especially since wg cd lines up well with blasts and you would have little over heal for wg. However, I don't have any math to back it up even though i see a lot of resto druids on wcl using sotf. I was curious what other people thought about these two talent choices and even potential math so that i can present why a certain talent would be better than the other. Of course, im fine with being wrong, would just like to know why. ^.^

[Hypasonic]

Generally speaking when progressing, Incarnation is better. You can use it if/when your raid starts dropping and can also give a slight boost to your tranq also, and its better for mana as you can spam cheaper more powerful rejus. SoTF works fine though, but is generally more mana intensive and will give more consistent healing thoughout the encounter.

[Thalur]

While SotF will give you a lot more overall throughput for mythic Blast Furnace, Incarnation is another healing CD for the raid and can save you some mana. So if you're short on mana, or the raid is short on CDs, Incarnation is better.

However, in a healer setup with Shaman and Monk, you should not need another CD, so if you have enough mana to sustain it (i.e. mythic Autoclave), SotF can be a very strong option too.

[skmzarn]

This was my Furnace Mythic kill, also my only kill so far:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...P#type=healing

I used Sotf and the overhealing was low. I was nowhere near to go oom, interesting enough. Had ~1800 spirit with trinket for the kill. I would say to go Sotf as long as you have the gear to be able to sustain to go sotf wg's all the way to the end. Using MoC and spam regrowths on the procs helped to regenerate some mana to sustain the wild growths.

[jahoosuphat]

This was my Furnace Mythic kill, also my only kill so far:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...P#type=healing

I used Sotf and the overhealing was low. I was nowhere near to go oom, interesting enough. Had ~1800 spirit with trinket for the kill. I would say to go Sotf as long as you have the gear to be able to sustain to go sotf wg's all the way to the end. Using MoC and spam regrowths on the procs helped to regenerate some mana to sustain the wild growths.

Definitely going to give this a go tonight. I tried MoC a month or so ago for a few nights and enjoyed it but was always worried about mana. With improved gear this might be a non issue. I love germination but it feels like wasted GCD's sometimes, maybe with MoC those GCD's will have a little more impact.

You are running Regrowth glyphed with this build?

[Sprucelee]

While SotF will give you a lot more overall throughput for mythic Blast Furnace, Incarnation is another healing CD for the raid and can save you some mana. So if you're short on mana, or the raid is short on CDs, Incarnation is better.

However, in a healer setup with Shaman and Monk, you should not need another CD, so if you have enough mana to sustain it (i.e. mythic Autoclave), SotF can be a very strong option too.

Common misconception, SotF does NOT give more throughput. BF is about the only fight it can be competitive, but by no means superior. I would say both are OK choices for BF, but I would recommend Incarnation to most Druids, as it is more flexible and far more forgiving on mana. I honestly see no reason to swap to SotF for this one fight, Incarnation is clearly stronger across all of BRF (I don't see that changing in HFC either), and it is better to get used to sticking with it.

Blast furnace is the only fight in BRF where AOE pulses of damage line up enough with the SM+WG CD. It is the rare exception. Been saying this all tier, and the statistics bear it out.

Once again, here are the rankings for Incarnation in BRF, and it dominates (and on BF, has 6/10 top ranks):

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Restoration

[Gailiuga]

We were progressing furnace and i didn't decide between those 2 spec. Was trying one and another throughout all raid
I suppose Tree will be OP in last section of the fight where you can start blanketing ppl and dont overheal much. Mana saving portion is superior+empowered tranq.
Sotf is good only in p2 where blast is +-15s

Common misconception, SotF does NOT give more throughput. BF is about the only fight it can be competitive, but by no means superior. I would say both are OK choices for BF, but I would recommend Incarnation to most Druids, as it is more flexible and far more forgiving on mana. I honestly see no reason to swap to SotF for this one fight, Incarnation is clearly stronger across all of BRF (I don't see that changing in HFC either), and it is better to get used to sticking with it.

Blast furnace is the only fight in BRF where AOE pulses of damage line up enough with the SM+WG CD. It is the rare exception. Been saying this all tier, and the statistics bear it out.

Once again, here are the rankings for Incarnation in BRF, and it dominates (and on BF, has 6/10 top ranks):

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Restoration

[skmzarn]

Definitely going to give this a go tonight. I tried MoC a month or so ago for a few nights and enjoyed it but was always worried about mana. With improved gear this might be a non issue. I love germination but it feels like wasted GCD's sometimes, maybe with MoC those GCD's will have a little more impact.

You are running Regrowth glyphed with this build?

Yes. Whenever I feel that people are on high HP enough, I am just dumping MoC procs on the tanks and guaranteeded regrowths with living seeds helps quite alot.

Common misconception, SotF does NOT give more throughput. BF is about the only fight it can be competitive, but by no means superior. I would say both are OK choices for BF, but I would recommend Incarnation to most Druids, as it is more flexible and far more forgiving on mana. I honestly see no reason to swap to SotF for this one fight, Incarnation is clearly stronger across all of BRF (I don't see that changing in HFC either), and it is better to get used to sticking with it.

Blast furnace is the only fight in BRF where AOE pulses of damage line up enough with the SM+WG CD. It is the rare exception. Been saying this all tier, and the statistics bear it out.

Once again, here are the rankings for Incarnation in BRF, and it dominates (and on BF, has 6/10 top ranks):

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...ec=Restoration

Who cares about ranks? Does it make you a better player? No, definately not. It's all about cheesing - going less healers, let the "better" healers rank because they want so. People stands in shit on purpose to let healers rank. Good luck ranking when the other healers are doing their job like they are supposed to and chaining cooldowns like they should.
This doesn't mean that everyone does this, but most likely the top does it when they are ranking on farmbosses. But it's just another way of playing when you're bored, but saying ToL is better just because it's used in the majority in the top is not really the right way to put it.
ToL might get you better ranks since you can snipe heals like mad, but that's just another way of cheesing it unless it's needed.

I'd also say that Sotf is a really good alternative on for example Oregorger, Darmac, Gruul, Flamebender, Kromog, Iron Maidens - but ToL is good on these fights as well. On Iron Maidens I would go Sotf if I wasn't on the boats. Sorka - ToL so I can instaroot mobs if something fails. On Ga'ran; this boat is quite tough for a rdruid to keep up with the healing, so popping ToL and spam heals helps.

So, both talents are really good in different ways. You can sotf a rejuv and genesis it to get incredibly sick healingburst when you're on the move or just do this to top someone in the matter of a second without even casting. You can sotf a regrowth with nature's swiftness to get a really big regrowth instantly.

Well, I am happy that both are great options depending on the fights and how you're playing.

[Sprucelee]

It is not just about "ranks", it is about statistics. You are kidding yourself if you think people with ToL just accidentally dominated the leader-board, or just happened to get there by 3 healing farm fights. They all got there because it is overwhelmingly the most selected talent. Regardless, what it does show, is that when the proverbial shit hits the fan, and a druid needs to do the maximum amount of healing possible (healer deaths, bad play, x number of reasons) which is often the case in progression kills, Incarnation is clearly superior on 8/10 fights.

Progression is over for most (so you would have to search my previous posts for "documentation")... but take it as you will: I have been tracking data like this from the start of the tier. And like I always do, I also watch top 100 guilds and their Druids. By far, ToL was the choice during progression, very few Druids ran SotF (the DoC+SotF fad mostly) consistently. It has stayed that way though farm, and I see no changes coming for HFC.

Anyway, you are right, SotF is the "alternative", just the slightly weaker one for 80-90% of the fights you noted. If anything IT is the one to mess with on farm, as it can be fun to play with, but weaker and less flexible.