FFXIV and why WoW should be worried.

[Wondercrab]

My guildies and I have given FFXIV a go as well, and so far we've been enjoying it a bunch more. At the end of Pandaria I'd safely say that WoW, even with the slow content updates, was still probably a better, tighter game overall, but since WoD launched I don't think that's the case any longer.
Final Fantasy just seems to have a much better grasp on the concept of fun at present. There are a lot of smooth, quality of life things that WoW does better, but that's not really a big deal when the problems with the core gameplay are so striking by comparison.

[Kioshi]

Blizzard needs competition. because right now they are slacking more than ever. They are starting to be like EA now, they without competition they will give us less and tell us excuses.


Can someone tell me how you can increase your employees for this game and get less content out?

[Life-Binder]

WoW should be worried that soon enough Hearthstone will start making more money for Blizz then it does (especially sicne HS requires far less "upkeep")

[Toppy]

MMO's in general have stagnated because the players want specific things that are all exactly the same over and over again. Any deviation from that usually leads to failure. The new Final Fantasy game is "better" than WoW because it is new and exciting. It has a new environment with new characters and things you haven't seen before. Play it for a year and see what you think. Play it for 10 years and see if you don't hate everything about it.

Also, I laugh pretty hard at every single person that says Blizzard doesn't listen to their players. Their biggest problem is that they listen to their players too much and let them dictate too much. By way of example, there have been threads on this very forum for half a decade about how flying is ruining the game and Blizzard should get rid of it. Everyone agreed. Now they got rid of flying and people hate it.

Whatever, if you don't like WoW, don't play it. That's fine. You'll be much happier playing whatever game you prefer. To come in and say some game that barely survived its awful launch is going to somehow threaten a giant of the industry that clears a billion bucks a year in revenue is just crazy pants though. I mean I love Marvel Heroes. They put out new stuff all the time too. It's a fun game with a strong IP and a loyal fan base. WoW has nothing to worry about from Marvel Heroes. I guess you can keep waving the flag for your game and hope for the best though.

Well, you also have shits like Holinka who whines when feedback doesnt agree with him and flat out ignores statistics and proof of why things need done.

or how blizz took all the want for playerh ousing which had been building since vanilla, and then gave us garrisons

they do not listen, they say they listen, make changes based on poor reasoning, and then blame the players

[Rawmac]

WoW should be worried that soon enough Hearthstone will start making more money for Blizz then it does (especially sicne HS requires far less "upkeep")

I don't think they'll worry about this at all if it happens.

[buck008]

Well, you also have shits like Holinka who whines when feedback doesnt agree with him and flat out ignores statistics and proof of why things need done.

or how blizz took all the want for playerh ousing which had been building since vanilla, and then gave us garrisons

they do not listen, they say they listen, make changes based on poor reasoning, and then blame the players

That's poor communication from PR and community managers. The decisions that they make clearly suggest that they listen though. I also think that the players are way too sensitive and read way too much into the things that these people say.

[Orby]

I dont think Blizzard need to worry at all! No MMO can touch WoW right now, that's not fanboi'ism, that's fact! Unless the MMO scene changes drastically, and not just be a copy paste of every other MMO!

[Toppy]

That's poor communication from PR and community managers. The decisions that they make clearly suggest that they listen though. I also think that the players are way too sensitive and read way too much into the things that these people say.

what decisions theyve made make it clear they listen? is it their complete removal of dailies despite many defending them in mop? or perhaps how 6.2 is just a continuation of everything people dislike about wod?

[Kittahsmash]

ffxiv is fun, a lot of effort put in

But I just cannot get past the tab targeting (why yes id love to hit that pack 40 yards away, thank you for picking those)
and the proffesions,

Apart from that it is fun

Yeah, the targetting in the game is a bit obnoxious... when you realize that pushing tab just cycles between mobs (starting on the left and moving towards the right) each time you press tab, it's a little more controllable. Where you have your camera facing has an effect too. But it's nowhere as smooth as I remember WoW's tab-targetting to be.

[buck008]

what decisions theyve made make it clear they listen? is it their complete removal of dailies despite many defending them in mop? or perhaps how 6.2 is just a continuation of everything people dislike about wod?

Or maybe it's taking out dailies because it was the number one biggest complaint that they got throughout MoP. Like it or not WoD is exactly what players asked for. If you don't like it, the community has absolutely no one to blame but themselves.

[wowaccounttom]

FFXIV had me at "more visually appealing"

but there are plenty more reasons.


i dont need any more.

for others, there could be multi platform, story, class "creation", music, different mechanics, sense of community wow has lost, etc.

[Noomz]

Reposting this here, since I wasnt aware that threads concerning why WoW needs to change aren't allowed on the wow general forum.

I am starting off this thread by saying that the intent is not to bash WoW, but rather compare the current WoW with what I believe to currently be one of its bigger competitors, FFXIV. And using FFXIV as an example of why blizz needs to pick up their game..

The basis for comparison will be content patches.

Here is a list of the patches since FFXIV relaunched in August 2013
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...patchnote_log/

The first patch came 4 months after release in december and added dozens of quests, continuation of multiple storylines, three dungeons (two were hard modes of old dungeons, a hard mode is less like a normal -> mythic and wow, and more like the remakes, for example old dead mines -> new dead mines), a new raid, a new "trial" boss (trials are where you fight a singular boss, think of it like going to BRF to just fight blackhand), as well as 4 higher difficulties for old trials (think of it as going from a heroic boss to a mythic boss, lots and lots of new mechanics), and guild housing. There were many many other features added in this patch: the questing alone was quiete notable, but it'd just be easier if you just looked them up in the link, they're better explained there.

Other patches added similar amounts of content: side quests, new systems, new armors, new weapons, new raids, new trials and so on (one added an entire new class, complete with story reasoning for why they are suddenly a thing). The second content patch followed the first by 3 months, the third took 4 months, the fourth took 3 months, and the fifth took 2 months, and with two mini patches coming 1 an 2 months afterwards. The expansion is set to release in June, which would mean it is taking 7 months, 4 if you count from the end of the second mini patch, for the expansion to release.

In other words, FFXIV has been launching very substantial patches at over twice the speed of WoW. Warlords of Draenor launched in November, the new patch likely wont be till June or July, or heaven forbid August. Thats 7-8 months waiting for a patch. No, I am not counting 6.1, and for obvious reasons: it added nothing substantial, its smaller even than the FFXIV mini patches: the first of which added a darkmoon faire like area complete with mini games, an entire card battling system, and an actually legitimate racing and mount raising system.

WoW should be worried about games like FFXIV. It is flat out shaming World of Warcraft by pretty much doing everything better. Hell, FFXIV has a system in place for visiting old content, and if I remember rightly, has had it from the start. The way it works is, you scale down, both gear wise and skills wise, to the old content. This way old players can play with new players doing the dungeons and what not. FFXIV updates and adds new things to old dungeons and does so without entirely getting rid of old content (like they do with all of their dungeon remakes).

Just about every feature players have been wanting in WoW, FFXIV has or is getting: player housing, armor dyes, a system for doing old content, fast and constant new content, class specific quests, in the expansion they are adding flying mounts, but actually being sure to put restrictions on them so they don't completely outshine ground mounts, hell, even though the pvp isnt popular, FFXIV made sure to put a system in place where skills act different in pvp.

WoW really needs to step up its game and learn from the competition if it wishes to stay afloat. It needs to start actually churning out content, and it needs to stop treating its players like dirt, and actually listen to what players want, rather than telling players what they want.

I find that FF14's content isn't actually better than WoW's content. I've played both games and both are equally boring. FF14 is well done and good competition, but in the end it's the same shit in a different outfit, same grind, same boredom.
That and the so called story in FF14 is COMPLETELY forgettable. The story telling is sadly very Japanese, by which I mean it feels like I'm watching a generic anime, with all the very generic characters that I never cared about the slightest.

I don't really think it looks better than WoW either. It has a higher fidelity, if you wanna call it that, but still manages to often look square, sharp and old. This seems to be a disease of it being a multi-platform game.

That's a neat thing about it though, that you can actually play with people across platforms and it's got a solid controller support for people with a PC who still want a controller.

FF14 has its own problems and is only better in the eyes of the naive and those that have played no other MMO but WoW until they made the switch.

If you don't like grinding, you're gonna hate FF14, 'cus fuck knows you're gonna be leveling up a lot. You'll run out of quests quickly, so you'll have to go between "events" (just like in GW2) to farm them. Over and over and over ad infinitum.
You'll be leveling up two classes, which can be done on one character (which a neat feature) in order to unlock a specialist class, which you will then have to level up.
That's the point at which I just held up my hands and gave up on FF14.

[Barakaa]

My guild has recently committed to FFXIV as well and have abandoned wow. We find the overall game, story, classes, fun, graphics, and in game systems are just better. I can almost promise anyone talking smack about it has not sat down and actually played the game through at all.

Being able to do everything on 1 character, have reasons for every ounce of content in the game to be redone is amazing. Normal and Hard mode dungeons are 2 completely different entities. Extreme modes are a nice challenge as well. Starter raids are great amazing fun and an excellent quick way to gear up. Turn 5 + in The Coil become increasingly harder and make anything that I've done in almost 11 years of WoW look like a walk in the park.

Not to mention you get a 100% smooth gameplay experience even though the graphics are high quality. Square takes the time to close it's textures so there are no incidents like falling through the world. On ultra everything is crisp clean and flawless.

I just can't say enough good things about it.. and don't wanna waste mine and everyone else time with the negative things about WoW.

[Deleted]

FF14 is the only game that is made me forget WoW, don't really care about the other 7m players that are currently subscribed to WoW but at least to me, wow is dead right now.

FF14 is far better than wow at present. PERIOD

[Sorrior]

MMO's in general have stagnated because the players want specific things that are all exactly the same over and over again. Any deviation from that usually leads to failure. The new Final Fantasy game is "better" than WoW because it is new and exciting. It has a new environment with new characters and things you haven't seen before. Play it for a year and see what you think. Play it for 10 years and see if you don't hate everything about it.

Also, I laugh pretty hard at every single person that says Blizzard doesn't listen to their players. Their biggest problem is that they listen to their players too much and let them dictate too much. By way of example, there have been threads on this very forum for half a decade about how flying is ruining the game and Blizzard should get rid of it. Everyone agreed. Now they got rid of flying and people hate it.

Whatever, if you don't like WoW, don't play it. That's fine. You'll be much happier playing whatever game you prefer. To come in and say some game that barely survived its awful launch is going to somehow threaten a giant of the industry that clears a billion bucks a year in revenue is just crazy pants though. I mean I love Marvel Heroes. They put out new stuff all the time too. It's a fun game with a strong IP and a loyal fan base. WoW has nothing to worry about from Marvel Heroes. I guess you can keep waving the flag for your game and hope for the best though.

You mean 1.0 right? This is noy the same game AT ALL

[buck008]

You mean 1.0 right? This is noy the same game AT ALL

I have no idea what that response means.

[thewallofsleep]

Assuming I could actually receive an authentication email from Square Enix and make a damn account, I'd check it. It kind of sucks when you buy a game on Steam and the developer wont and an authentication email for three different addresses. Apparently this is a known issue.

[TheEaterofSouls]

I dunno man. FF14 is pretty graphics intensive

[Toppy]

I dunno man. FF14 is pretty graphics intensive

It'd oddly well optimized. Japanese work magic or something. My 4 year old toaster could run it fine.

[liquidlyon]

I dont think Blizzard need to worry at all! No MMO can touch WoW right now, that's not fanboi'ism, that's fact! Unless the MMO scene changes drastically, and not just be a copy paste of every other MMO!

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3186...p-for-a-tumble

Very good article (from a site not related to gaming at all so no WoW bias) about the real state of Blizzard and WoW.

This is not the Blizzard of old who would not of put out such a horrid expansion and lost 3m subs in one quarter, and if by some chance the Blizzard of old had allowed that to happen, it would've not been followed up by a store mount, removal of further features, and trying to hype up a patch full of rehashed bosses and content. (archimonde 2.0, timeless isle 2.0, mannaroth pulling an onyxia, etc.)

Out of the 23 people I have on real-ID that I used to play wow with, only 2 of them still play and only 1 of them even logs on regularly. Of those 23, 11 of them came to FF14 with me 3 months ago, and we haven't looked back.

The level of detail and love they put into their game is stunning, really. Little things like adding a content patch just for the fun Golden Saucer area (that didn't cost anyone a raid tier) or the fact that the hard mode dungeons in their game aren't just a carbon copy of normal with more dmg/HP, but instead entirely new experiences, bosses, and re-designs of the whole area. It is a breath of fresh air compared to what the current Blizzard has offered us for the last year+, maybe more. And of all the games I've played, I have truly never encountered a better community of people. The vast majority of experiences are people being kind, respectful, and helpful if you are a new player. Bad experiences are extremely rare.

It isn't a perfect game. As someone pointed out in this thread, the targeting system can be hard to get used to. The combat speed is also an adjustment for some, although I don't find it takes anything away from the experience. It also is a bit slow when first starting out, the first 30 levels or so before you really scratch the surface of the classes isn't the most engaging gameplay. The good news is that with the expansion, the game is getting directx11 support, and with that support they plan to allow mods like WoW does, so it is likely that issues with things like targeting will be fixable by the community before much longer.

TL/DR: From someone who left WoW months ago for FF14 and hasn't looked back, it is a great game to try if you are still interested in MMO's but want to get away from WoW/Blizzard.