Page 1 of 3
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #1

    How to make spirit of redemption more interesting.

    Before I begin, I have never done holy PvP before (if that's even a thing) so I will mostly be ignoring that side of the passive, however I would like to hear opinions from that perspective as well.

    One of the thing I find fun about holy priests in the spirit of redemption talent. While it may be quite useful in PvP (I wouldn't know), it tends to be rather useless in PvE except for odd niche situations where an extra 15 seconds of healing will save the raid. Don't get me wrong, it's neat, but honestly I feel it gets ignored due to it's very obvious flaw of you having to be dead. So I came up with a few ideas.

    First, what if it could be used prior to death, but remain alive after and lose the effect upon death? I think being able to use this ability when you need it instead of when you probably don't need it would be pretty cool. Obviously this would be rather overpowered given you would be completely invincible while being able to heal for free for 15 seconds. Some number changes would need to be made, but I would love to be able to turn into a spirit of redemption or a val'kyr for some amount of a fight.

    Second, Why can't a spirit of redemption have a battle rez? Quite literally they are the creatures that are hanging out at graveyards to resurrect you as a ghost. The ones at graveyards give the debuff, but I don't see why player spirits couldn't rez without the debuff given the normal battle rez cd.

    Third, There could be a talent called "Martyr" (or something along those lines) where you could sacrifice your remaining health pool to enter an empowered spirit form. You could increased healing while in this form and have some additional effect occur based on what chakra you activated it in. For example you would radiate your remaining health to all allies within a certain radius around you if you were in sanctuary. And transfer your health to the target while in serenity. Chastise could deal your health in damage to the target (not exactly useful but it fits the theme).

    Spirit of redemption is such an iconic feature of holy priests (It's even the icon used for the spec), it just seems odd that it isn't more prominent in the spec's playstyle. These may not be great suggestions, but I would've preferred something flashy like these for level 100 talents over something as bland as free Prayer of Mending casts. What do you guys think, are these ideas silly? If so, what would you change about Spirit of Redemption to make it more prominent in the holy priest playstyle?

    tl;dr: Spirit of Redemption is iconic to holy priests, yet in PvE you only see it when it's already too late. What could be done to make it play a more active role in the spec?

  2. #2
    Deleted
    I'd quite like spirit of redemption to become a button. Press it to kill yourself and become the spirit of redemption. Sometimes during progression near the end of a fight I'm totally oom and I'm trying to kill myself to continue healing. Having it keep your raid buffs would be nice as well.

  3. #3
    Epic! Volibear's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Climbing in yo' windows
    Posts
    1,696
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I'd quite like spirit of redemption to become a button. Press it to kill yourself and become the spirit of redemption. Sometimes during progression near the end of a fight I'm totally oom and I'm trying to kill myself to continue healing. Having it keep your raid buffs would be nice as well.
    I could totally get on board for this kind of thing. I leveled a Priest as my main alt, and I can't stand playing Disc so Holy is my go-to. I think having a way to force into Spirit instead of waiting for fire to stand in when you NEED mana to do something useful could be great, and it's normally toward the end of the fight when you need it, so I think it could be really useful to have a button to force into it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Brolibear!
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH816 View Post
    Ladies know and love his caaaaaause! It is the Panda with the Chainsaw claaaaaws!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I'd quite like spirit of redemption to become a button. Press it to kill yourself and become the spirit of redemption. Sometimes during progression near the end of a fight I'm totally oom and I'm trying to kill myself to continue healing. Having it keep your raid buffs would be nice as well.
    Having a button on your bar that would just outright kill you without doing anything else seems rather... dangerous. Regardless, I would love being able to do this for the same reasons.

  5. #5
    I wouldn't mind having it as our version of the 3 minute, honestly? Obviously it wouldn't kill you then. Maybe it's boring but it's no secret that the spec (in fact the entire class) is the only one lacking a 3 minute CD self-buff, like Ascendance or Incarnation. It can still work while dead in addition to that, because it doesn't actually increase healing directly, but rather through reducing the manacost of heals and letting you blow your expensive stuff, so it's not like it's innately too strong as a concept. And let's be real, it's about time they made it mobile. It happens so often that your raid needs to move or you get decked by some mechanic with a knockback and are on the opposite side of the room and just end up right clicking it off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Symulation View Post
    Spirit of redemption is such an iconic feature of holy priests (It's even the icon used for the spec)
    That's actually Guardian Spirit :x
    Last edited by Thirteen; 2015-05-17 at 11:25 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  6. #6
    Spirit of redemption is indeed lackluster and after some brainstorming here is my latest iteration of it which will provide some unique utility to the spec and the ability itself.

    Spirit of Redemption - 3 min cd

    Transforms you into the Spirit of Redemption for 20 seconds. Spirit of Redemption comes with 2 extra abilities 1 passive and 1 active. You can use your normal abilities while transformed into the Spirit of Redemption.

    Divine Fortitude (Passive) - The Spirit of Redemption radiates with divine light increasing healing taken by all allies within 25 yards by 25%, reduces damage taken by 10% for all affected allies and restores health periodically to all targets within it's area of effect based on their distance from the Spirit of Redemption. Healing granted from this effect scales as follows, is not affected by any healing modifier positive or negative and it doesn't follow regular diminishing return rules:

    0 to 5 yards - 5% max health every 3 seconds
    6 to 10 yards - 4% max health every 3 seconds
    11 to 15 yards - 3% max health every 3 seconds
    16 to 20 yards - 2% max health every 3 seconds
    21 to 25 yards - 1% max health every 3 seconds

    Ascension (Active) - Unleashes the divine power of the Spirit of Redemption, this process kills the Spirit of Redemption and creates a holy nova that expands outwards up to 50 yards restores all missing health and grants immunity to all damage and effects even those that would normally bypass damage immunity effects for 6 seconds to all party and raid members as it passes through them. All affected party and raid members by this ability are affected by Deliverance which prevents them from getting affected by Ascension until combat ends. The priest that uses Ascension dies in the process and cannot be resurrected until combat ends.
    All values aren't exactly very thought out and are simply there to just demonstrate my idea.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    snip.
    the passive is nice but the active is quite honestly the most OP thing i've ever seen suggested

    i think the active is fine if it's like... active skill: every player has a buff for 10 seconds which cheat's death. works on everything (as you suggested). if the cheat death is procced the player dies but their spirit lives on for 20 seconds allowing the player to keep fighting for the 20 second period.

    kinda like a "well we're gonna wipe to enrage so let's delay it by 20 secs to kill the boss" - it's still OP but less so imo, besides holy priests deserve to be OP cus they're trash atm
    Last edited by Floopa; 2015-05-18 at 01:18 AM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    the passive is nice but the active is quite honestly the most OP thing i've ever seen suggested

    i think the active is fine if it's like... active skill: every player has a buff for 10 seconds which cheat's death. works on everything (as you suggested). if the cheat death is procced the player dies but their spirit lives on for 20 seconds allowing the player to keep fighting for the 20 second period.

    kinda like a "well we're gonna wipe to enrage so let's delay it by 20 secs to kill the boss" - it's still OP but less so imo, besides holy priests deserve to be OP cus they're trash atm
    It does seem OP, but how OP do you need to make an ability before people will start sacrificing their healers to use it?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Spirit of redemption is indeed lackluster and after some brainstorming here is my latest iteration of it which will provide some unique utility to the spec and the ability itself.



    All values aren't exactly very thought out and are simply there to just demonstrate my idea.
    Just want you to know that by actually putting a solid suggestion out there you've killed any chances of it actually happening. Because the way Blizzard's devs' brains work is that a terrible idea is much better than a great idea, as long as it's theirs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootybear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Valancer View Post
    I play as a holy priest and when I ran hfc lfr I noticed after the first boss my heal spell wasn't casting. So I looked at it and it shows that it has a 34.4 min cast time
    Do you have the class trinket? If so, the cast time is correct. /s

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire HeroZero's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Conifer, Colorado
    Posts
    437
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Spirit of redemption is indeed lackluster and after some brainstorming here is my latest iteration of it which will provide some unique utility to the spec and the ability itself.



    All values aren't exactly very thought out and are simply there to just demonstrate my idea.
    Drop the active ability (or turn it into a full BR) make the healing bonus 10% and the damage reduction only 5%. I honestly don't even think it would need more than a flat 1% AoE heal to everyone to apply the healing and armor buffs.

    Another option instead of damage reduction and healing bonus could be reduced cooldowns on all your spells. put out a bunch of successive CoH and PoM would be pretty handy. I don't really feel like it should be interactive with the chakra except you can continue to use one (and switch them) while it is active. With this model I would suggest a 5%~ healing bonus to anyone within range of the spirit.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    I'd quite like spirit of redemption to become a button. Press it to kill yourself and become the spirit of redemption. Sometimes during progression near the end of a fight I'm totally oom and I'm trying to kill myself to continue healing. Having it keep your raid buffs would be nice as well.
    have it kill you, and last a bit longer is probably the best option
    Quote Originally Posted by -Ethos- View Post
    I literally die every time i see people using literally wrong.

  12. #12
    i dont see why it has to kill you to be balanced. no other class has to deal with that to be able to use their raid cds.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    All values aren't exactly very thought out and are simply there to just demonstrate my idea.
    I don't really have much to contribute sorry D: But I've always been enamoured with the idea of SoR as a 3 minute CD - a kind of Priest equivalent of Ascendance - if for no other reason than because the SoR/Valkyr form is awesome.

    Having 3 powerful passives and a supercharged, raid-wide, almost-Abaddon ultimate active does seem a bit overwhelming, moreso when assuming that the mana-free casting is retained (which I'm assuming it would be), but it sure sounds fun.

    And since it piqued my curiosity, I must ask, what is being referred to by "regular diminishing return rules"?
    Oh yeah, look at it go! Roll out the barrel; feel it in your bones!
    6.2 Healing Priest Spreadsheets; Legion Holy Priest Rotation Calculator (WiP)

  14. #14
    I add my vote behind the "allow me to trigger Spirit of Redemtion manually" suggestion. As long as it keeps the current proc-on-death ability.
    Sadly, I do not think the devs agree; the ability to kill ourselves is deemed far too powerful in the hands of a priest.

    Case in point: http://www.wowhead.com/item=95566/ra...ificial-dagger
    This item was nerfed to explicitly NOT trigger Spirit of Redemption.
    Last edited by Danner; 2015-05-18 at 11:04 AM.
    Non-discipline 2006-2019, not supporting the company any longer. Also: fails.
    MMO Champion Mafia Games - The outlet for Chronic Backstabbing Disorder. [ Join the Fun | Countdown | Rolecard Builder MkII ]

  15. #15
    i think any ability that kills the player is stupid. i do like isheria's idea but the active should just apply a 'delayed death' to players that would already be dead.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Myllior View Post
    I don't really have much to contribute sorry D: But I've always been enamoured with the idea of SoR as a 3 minute CD - a kind of Priest equivalent of Ascendance - if for no other reason than because the SoR/Valkyr form is awesome.

    Having 3 powerful passives and a supercharged, raid-wide, almost-Abaddon ultimate active does seem a bit overwhelming, moreso when assuming that the mana-free casting is retained (which I'm assuming it would be), but it sure sounds fun.

    And since it piqued my curiosity, I must ask, what is being referred to by "regular diminishing return rules"?
    That was a bit of bad wording since it doesn't exist anymore since most aoe spells are hard capped to 6 targets but before that several aoe abilities like holy radiance,healing rain,sanctuary etc were healing all targets within their area of effect and had diminishing returns past the 6th target. The only aoe heal that follows this rule currently is uplift, everything else is hard capped to 6 targets.

    In the idea above mana-free casting is not retained, spells consume mana as they would normally, you can also move freely and you can be targetted and damaged by all abilities like you would normally. SoR also is not proccing on death automatically and that's why the active ability is so powerful.
    Last edited by Isheria; 2015-05-18 at 11:06 AM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    In the idea above mana-free casting is not retained, spells consume mana as they would normally and proc on death which is the current SoR is also removed which is why the active ability is so powerful.
    the skill is too strong with the active like that though.

    you basically have a divine hymn, power word barrier, revival and raid wide divine intervention in 1 skill. it would be a lot more plausible if it was a raid wide delayed death on any player that actually died during a cheat death duration.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    That was a bit of bad wording since it doesn't exist anymore since most aoe spells are hard capped to 6 targets but before that several aoe abilities like holy radiance,healing rain,sanctuary etc were healing all targets within their area of effect and had diminishing returns past the 6th target. The only aoe heal that follows this rule currently is uplift, everything else is hard capped to 6 targets.

    In the idea above mana-free casting is not retained, spells consume mana as they would normally, you can also move freely and you can be targetted and damaged by all abilities like you would normally. SoR also is not proccing on death automatically and that's why the active ability is so powerful.
    Ah I remember that now; thanks for clarifying, both for the Divine Fortitude healing and the mana-free casting. I'm very much liking this idea! (I wasn't lying when I said I didn't have much to contribute; apologies for that).
    Oh yeah, look at it go! Roll out the barrel; feel it in your bones!
    6.2 Healing Priest Spreadsheets; Legion Holy Priest Rotation Calculator (WiP)

  19. #19
    Would be cool as a raid-wide buff that prevents a single killing blow on a raid member. Recharges every 3 minutes. Kind of like a raid-wide Guardian Spirit I suppose.
    Last edited by xdmemes; 2015-05-18 at 02:56 PM.

  20. #20
    Trigger manually seems fine, as long as the death still comes.

    The value of SoR in it's current phase is noticeable to me, for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it gives the raid advanced warning that a healer has died, so they can prepare to get that Brez out as soon as possible, without panicking or anything, and the priest is even able to go nuts with healing for a bit whilst in SoR form (Which is good, because, if someone's just died, there has likely just been a mechanic that hit hard and so it helps recover from that).

    Secondly, on those 1% wipe/kill attempts, as the raid is losing people, having an untargettable, invincible, endless mana healer able to pump FHs into a tank or spam PoHs into the raid will buy you a lot of extra time at the end (especially if it happens to allow for a tank CD to come back, or a DPS CD to come back to help finish off the boss etc).

    I do like the idea of it getting the battle rez ability too. In fact, since it requires the priest to die, and kinda is the 'graveyard spirit', and I can't think of anything more 'holy' than a holy priest, I'd go so far as to suggest either (or both) the ability for the SoR form's BR to still be useable even if the regular Brezs are on CD. The SoR BR would still activate the CD (to prevent from manually entering SoR, using th BR, then having someone else BR the priest, who could then BR again when SoR reactivated later), but if the CD was already used, the SoR could still do a BR.

    I don't think it needs to be made any more powerful - it's a good utility spell that allows you to handle the death of a healer much better than when your druid healer goes down and your warlock is suddenly having to scramble to BR on reaction and your raid is losing heals all the while, and on those progression fights at the end, that extra boost of mana is nice.

    I think making it really powerful on use would be OP since Holy does have DH and GS (and to a lesser extent, the T90 spells). If those CDs are felt to be lackluster (lol at DH in comparison to Tranq), I'd rather see a buff to those rather than adding another spell on top.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •